The Battle Of Karaka.

[Joe Bloggs]

There's a fucking huge difference between being a miserable bastard and a complete realist.

For a decade or more there has been a collective of certain breeders creaming it, living high on the hog, and giving sweet fuck all back to the industry.

No export tax, no capital gains tax, nada, zilch, what, just income tax? that is disypoprutunate when trusts, etc come into the equation.

I used to think you had a clue or two, I was wrong, way off, if you did you would have been pro-active but it seems to have passed you by, you're no better than that narcissistic flea on the other place, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Just because there is a strong yearling sale that generates millions for a select few doesn't mean things are cosy, you know that, there should NOT be an industry funded closed race day for millions and you all stand by and do Sweet Fuck All, all the back slapping at Karaka is sickening, the sucking up, the sycophant behaviour that Petone will be sitting back watching and thriving on, therefore the only winners are the breeders, the same mob that don't care about your domestic racing as much as they say they do......

The industry needs funding, it has to come from within, the gambling dollar can't stretch far enough, and the answer is staring you in the face, tax the exported horses, tax the buyer and the seller, it will ultimately assist the grass roots stalwarts that prop up the industry...

I can add no more...I'm done, thanks to all of you that thought enough of my input over the years to like a few of my posts, I hope you breed/own/train or ride heaps of winners and live til you're all 100.

Thanks.

Joe

 

[Huey]

3 hours ago, nomates said:

I would have sent a mare to him in his first couple of seasons if i was a breeder but or me the Time Test's have been disappointing , expected a lot more , especially the numbers he got in his first 2 seasons , unless something spectacular happens on the track for him before seasons end his book might drop a fair bit next season . 

Fickle game .

Not me, I like him and the types he is leaving, his pedigree suggests they'll take time and his oldest stock are only 3yos down under , I think we will start seeing the best of them late 3yos and 4yos years. He has already shown he can leave the odd 2yo with speed and being by Dubawi out of a Dansili ,Sadlers Wells & Blushing Groom mares and his best form being over a mile + I think there is plenty to look forward to.

Having said that his fee could probably do with a good slashing this season.

[holy ravioli]

14 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

There's a fucking huge difference between being a miserable bastard and a complete realist.

For a decade or more there has been a collective of certain breeders creaming it, living high on the hog, and giving sweet fuck all back to the industry.

No export tax, no capital gains tax, nada, zilch, what, just income tax? that is disypoprutunate when trusts, etc come into the equation.

I used to think you had a clue or two, I was wrong, way off, if you did you would have been pro-active but it seems to have passed you by, you're no better than that narcissistic flea on the other place, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Just because there is a strong yearling sale that generates millions for a select few doesn't mean things are cosy, you know that, there should NOT be an industry funded closed race day for millions and you all stand by and do Sweet Fuck All, all the back slapping at Karaka is sickening, the sucking up, the sycophant behaviour that Petone will be sitting back watching and thriving on, therefore the only winners are the breeders, the same mob that don't care about your domestic racing as much as they say they do......

The industry needs funding, it has to come from within, the gambling dollar can't stretch far enough, and the answer is staring you in the face, tax the exported horses, tax the buyer and the seller, it will ultimately assist the grass roots stalwarts that prop up the industry...

I can add no more...I'm done, thanks to all of you that thought enough of my input over the years to like a few of my posts, I hope you breed/own/train or ride heaps of winners and live til you're all 100.

Thanks.

Joe

 

', tax the exported horses, tax the buyer and the seller, it will ultimately assist the grass roots stalwarts that prop up the industry...'

Dead right comrade ,too much income in NZ goes untaxed.Need a CG and a wealth tax to close the chasm between the haves and the havenots.😉

[mumbles]

22 hours ago, nomates said:

I would have sent a mare to him in his first couple of seasons if i was a breeder but or me the Time Test's have been disappointing , expected a lot more , especially the numbers he got in his first 2 seasons , unless something spectacular happens on the track for him before seasons end his book might drop a fair bit next season . 

Fickle game .

IMO ace high was a bit disappointing.

[mumbles]

22 hours ago, Huey said:

I do find it fascinating how so many of these big NZ players get credit for supporting the NZ industry at the sales when most of their purchases are by Aus based sires. 

 

Interesting to note that TA couldn't find a single Almanzor to purchase from Book 1 after winning the KM 2yo with one the year before, with more than 50 in Book 1 to choose from.

Do Cambridge race any horses with Te Akau.

[Freda]

51 minutes ago, mumbles said:

Do Cambridge race any horses with Te Akau.

Probabeel among others sported the black and gold chequers, when Jamie was the trainer incumbent.

More recently I think Lance Noble has handled the NZ based runners. 

[mumbles]

10 minutes ago, Freda said:

Probabeel among others sported the black and gold chequers, when Jamie was the trainer incumbent.

More recently I think Lance Noble has handled the NZ based runners. 

Could it be a back scratching situation here?

[Huey]

1 hour ago, mumbles said:

Do Cambridge race any horses with Te Akau.

I think they had a Zoustar with them recently from memory.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, mumbles said:

IMO ace high was a bit disappointing.

You mean as a Sire at the sales or to view in the flesh or both?

[Huey]

Interesting the take up for the stock of Ardrossan , they certainly look nice enough types but my word they gone a bit the early crow on him ... time will tell perhaps he is the heir apparent at WS.

[mumbles]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

You mean as a Sire at the sales or to view in the flesh or both?

Sire at the sales.

[Special Agent]

I hope there are some fortunate Ace High owners in a year or so.  They seem good types that will improve with time.

[Chief Stipe]

On 1/02/2023 at 8:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

There's a fucking huge difference between being a miserable bastard and a complete realist.

Really?  You're a realist?  I see the renegade @hesi has chosen to copy your post to his forum.  To hell with copyright but interestingly he says you talk a lot of sense.  Although from Hesi that's damp limp praise.

So let's actually analyse what you have said.  You started this thread by predicting doom and gloom for the Karaka sale.  Book 1 surpassed the last four years in terms of average, median and clearance rate.

The same seems to be happening with Book 2 which you described as a bloodbath.

Those are the real facts.

On 1/02/2023 at 8:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

No export tax, no capital gains tax, nada, zilch, what, just income tax? that is disypoprutunate when trusts, etc come into the equation.

No wonder @hesi says you talk sense he being an acolyte of the left.  So your answer is to tax more?  Don't the current tax laws apply to everyone be they a big or small horse breeder?

On 1/02/2023 at 8:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

I used to think you had a clue or two, I was wrong, way off, if you did you would have been pro-active but it seems to have passed you by, you're no better than that narcissistic flea on the other place, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Nice!  Try saying that to the narcissistic flea and see how long you can post for.  

Mmmm you suggest I can't see the forest for the trees.  I've been consistently pointing out for nearly two decades that our major race tracks were stuffed.  I also pointed out the white elephants in the room with recent reforms - the TAB restructure being smoke and mirrors, the AWT'S being a colossal waste of money and a future drain on the industry, the new RIB would be an inefficient behemoth and undermine integrity and confidence in the industry etc etc.

On 1/02/2023 at 8:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

Just because there is a strong yearling sale that generates millions for a select few doesn't mean things are cosy, you know that, there should NOT be an industry funded closed race day for millions and you all stand by and do Sweet Fuck All, all the back slapping at Karaka is sickening, the sucking up, the sycophant behaviour that Petone will be sitting back watching and thriving on, therefore the only winners are the breeders, the same mob that don't care about your domestic racing as much as they say they do......

At least part of the industry is still alive contrary to you assertion that it is dead.  The industry needs horses therefore it needs breeders. 

On 1/02/2023 at 8:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

The industry needs funding, it has to come from within, the gambling dollar can't stretch far enough, and the answer is staring you in the face, tax the exported horses, tax the buyer and the seller, it will ultimately assist the grass roots stalwarts that prop up the industry...

Tax who?  More costs on all breeders or are you going to just target a few of the wealthy or is that just the successful?  They'll just pack up and head somewhere else with their yearlings.

You want to distort the market with more controls and taxes.  That's the very thing that has distorted our industry the most.  The TABNZ monopoly has got us to where we are today.

On 1/02/2023 at 8:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

The industry needs funding, it has to come from within, the gambling dollar can't stretch far enough, and the answer is staring you in the face, tax the exported horses, tax the buyer and the seller, it will ultimately assist the grass roots stalwarts that prop up the industry...

You obviously haven't thought this through at all.  You want MORE sweepstake races?  

[Special Agent]

What I like about what is going on here is debate.  Nothing can change without differing opinions.

Currently in this country at least it is sad to see almost hatred towards anyone not sharing an opinion.  I hope at some stage upstarts of the day take the time to look back at history where those on opposing sides sometimes agreed and the world didn't end.

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

What I like about what is going on here is debate.  Nothing can change without differing opinions.

Currently in this country at least it is sad to see almost hatred towards anyone not sharing an opinion.  I hope at some stage upstarts of the day take the time to look back at history where those on opposing sides sometimes agreed and the world didn't end.

There is irony in that society is expecting us to embrace diversity but that doesn't extend to diversity in opinion.

I do object however to the blaming of any one group for the demise/decline of the racing industry.  That includes the mythical cartel.

Every participant has had a hand in it.  We have settled time and time again for mediocrity in administration, facilities for horses and the tracks they race on.  We've all chased the stakes and taken them gleefully while ignoring the fundamentals.  When time has come for collective action we've all acted individually and in self interest.

[Huey]

16 hours ago, mumbles said:

Sire at the sales.

Certainly on results compared to previous years he has been, but as we know in the sales arena they can go from Hot to Not very quickly for no apparent reason at times or one horse by a sire can make them hot property not to mention the timing of that performance to sales.

[holy ravioli]

52 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

There is irony in that society is expecting us to embrace diversity but that doesn't extend to diversity in opinion.

I do object however to the blaming of any one group for the demise/decline of the racing industry.  That includes the mythical cartel.

Every participant has had a hand in it.  We have settled time and time again for mediocrity in administration, facilities for horses and the tracks they race on.  We've all chased the stakes and taken them gleefully while ignoring the fundamentals.  When time has come for collective action we've all acted individually and in self interest.

How is the cartel mythical?

A mountain of evidence to support cronyist practices in racing in NZ.

[Chief Stipe]

35 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

How is the cartel mythical?

A mountain of evidence to support cronyist practices in racing in NZ.

Where's the evidence?

[Special Agent]

Mediocrity isn't confined to the racing industry.  Ask any parent who has had their child schooled within the last 20 years.  No wonder home schooling numbers are on the rise.

Evidence of the back room deals at sales time may be hard to display evidence of but definitely exists.  As far as one for the boys, yes many mates definitely end up in plum jobs.

As far as stakeholders being silent I can tell you that you are soon left off invite and email lists if you ask the hard questions or make any suggestions that might work.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Evidence of the back room deals at sales time may be hard to display evidence of but definitely exists.

So?  We are talking about horse traders afterall.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

As far as stakeholders being silent I can tell you that you are soon left off invite and email lists if you ask the hard questions or make any suggestions that might work.

That's where you need to be smarter.  Single action will never beat a collective.

[Huey]

7 hours ago, holy ravioli said:

How is the cartel mythical?

A mountain of evidence to support cronyist practices in racing in NZ.

Agree its certainly there in nzracing whether transparently so or not.

A good example this week is how quickly the Taupo meeting has been rescheduled , compare that to the many many meetings in other locations which were just deleted and never rescheduled , you have to have your eyes firmly closed to not think nzracing partakes in geographical favouritism to say the very least.

[Chief Stipe]

13 hours ago, Huey said:

Agree its certainly there in nzracing whether transparently so or not.

A good example this week is how quickly the Taupo meeting has been rescheduled , compare that to the many many meetings in other locations which were just deleted and never rescheduled , you have to have your eyes firmly closed to not think nzracing partakes in geographical favouritism to say the very least.

Nothing to do with the number of horses requiring a start and their proximity to Taupo?

Or could it be a product of the closing down of training centres in other regions and the diversion of funds away from tracks to "hospitality" monstrosities?

[holy ravioli]

18 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's where you need to be smarter.  Single action will never beat a collective.

Collective,community,co-operation is a Socialist ideal.

Everyman for himself and personal responsibility(when it suits)is a Capitalist ethos.

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Collective,community,co-operation is a Socialist ideal.

Everyman for himself and personal responsibility(when it suits)is a Capitalist ethos.

Again you miss the point.  Get you head out of your text book theory.

The racing industry works under a socialist construct.  Everything is legislated to maintain a monopoly.  It's about time the market constraints were removed.  All the way from wagering to how race day licenses are allocated.  The latter should be contestable.