Busy Stipes at Methven!!

[Brodie]

Geez the Stipes had a field day at Methven yesterday trying to fill the coffers!

A couple of charges as Cross Codes pointed out in regards to socalled cruelty to animals!

Over the years I have seen other trainers do this to horses as a way of showing who is in charge, and it is very common but probably shouldnt be done in front of the general public.

Once again the current PATHETICALLY WRONG WHIP RULE that was brought in by HRNZ and Edward Rennell without much thought whatsoever, was broken by many drivers!!!
Many drivers have had their licenses suspended and HRNZ WAKE UP, you have stuffed up, admit it and change the rule to what it used to be decades ago, was common sense, and WORKED!!
 

[Chief Stipe]

35 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Over the years I have seen other trainers do this to horses as a way of showing who is in charge, and it is very common but probably shouldnt be done in front of the general public.

I've seen it too.  Normally with horses that have a hell dirty attitude.

Nowadays if a horse bites you can't slap it in the mouth.

Would the general public have noticed if the Stipes didn't point out the actions?

Hopefully they interview the horse, trainer AND driver.  No doubt all three will recieve remedial behavioural counselling.

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I've seen it too.  Normally with horses that have a hell dirty attitude.

Nowadays if a horse bites you can't slap it in the mouth.

Would the general public have noticed if the Stipes didn't point out the actions?

Hopefully they interview the horse, trainer AND driver.  No doubt all three will recieve remedial behavioural counselling.

The horses probably know that they arent allowed to be hit or slapped or they can press charges against the trainer!

The world has gone mad and needs changing quickly.

The dirty lowlife scum that are doing the crime and ram raids etc. actually do need a damn right hiding from their parents, to scare the living daylights out of them.

What part of the “anti smacking laws are not working” do they not understand?

The youth need some serious discipline as things are out of the control from the “lefties”!

 

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

The dirty lowlife scum that are doing the crime and ram raids etc. actually do need a damn right hiding from their parents, to scare the living daylights out of them.

What part of the “anti smacking laws are not working” do they not understand?

The youth need some serious discipline as things are out of the control from the “lefties”!

Should there be a ban on cordless jugs and kettles ?

[Honestjohn]

2 hours ago, Rangatira said:

Should there be a ban on cordless jugs and kettles ?

I always remember my cousin being strapped with a jug cord.  About 11 from memory,  bloody cruel thing to do.  Mum threatened me with it but I never got  it. 

Hj

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, Brodie said:

Over the years I have seen other trainers do this to horses as a way of showing who is in charge, and it is very common but probably shouldnt be done in front of the general public.

Yes that is falling foul of the rules for any public punching or kicking of a horse. Can't say I ever saw any of that in 15 years racing while at the track , but you bet your biscuits that the farrier or (trainer shoeing) has to give the odd slap at home to keep the critters in line as that makes em stand up a bit straighter usually , and you can avoid injury to one's self. and you can't have them playing up too much while you're half underneath them lol....

 

[Brodie]

Personally Brodie doesnt condone violence per se!

However parents nowadays do not seem to be allowed to discipline their own kids, as the government has put out laws to prevent this happening!

The kids have now got the upper hand over their parents as they know that the law is such that no level of hitting to discipline is acceptable.

The reality is that things have deteriorated significantly since the anti smacking law cane into force!

Who wouldve thought that there would be these blatantly abhorent ram raids occurring and robberies during the day in broad daylight in front of people?

Time for the KINDNESS to these thugs and horrible humans who do these crimes ceases, and harsh punishments brought in to stop this BS once and for al!!

But it wont happen as we have so many limp wristed politicians in government!!!

[paleface adios]

5 hours ago, Rangatira said:

Should there be a ban on cordless jugs and kettles ?

nah railway sleepers and hoovers 

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, paleface adios said:

nah railway sleepers and hoovers 

sad day for the termites

[Rangatira]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Yes that is falling foul of the rules for any public punching or kicking of a horse. Can't say I ever saw any of that in 15 years racing while at the track , but you bet your biscuits that the farrier or (trainer shoeing) has to give the odd slap at home to keep the critters in line as that makes em stand up a bit straighter usually , and you can avoid injury to one's self. and you can't have them playing up too much while you're half underneath them lol....

 

mmmmm beans

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Rangatira said:

mmmmm beans

hahaha yeah.... Blazing Saddles had some great cinema moments that were ever made.

Not quite the good horsemen that the stipes at Methven were dealing with in this thread 😆 but........

sounds like an old time's harness meeting when Hedley Lamaar said this in the movie >>>>>>>>>> 😂

Hedley Lamarr: “I want you to round up every vicious criminal and gunslinger in the west. Take this down. I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

I really question the motivation of a small group of self proclaimed enthusiasts.  The ones that are talking about leaking the two "incidents" to mainstream media.

I suspect none of them have worked with horses ever.

[paleface adios]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I really question the motivation of a small group of self proclaimed enthusiasts.  The ones that are talking about leaking the two "incidents" to mainstream media.

I suspect none of them have worked with horses ever.

failed drivers?

[Chief Stipe]

Some of the posters commenting on this have no idea about horse behaviour.

I've seen trainers give a swift punch to the stomach of a horse when the horse has started to lean over them and try and crush them against the side of a stall.  In those circumstances there isn't much you can do to get the dirty bugger of a horse to stand up.

It is hardly abuse as a 500kg animal is only going to get startled than feel any intense pain.  Judging by how many do it again on another occasion they don't remember it either.

[Brodie]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Some of the posters commenting on this have no idea about horse behaviour.

I've seen trainers give a swift punch to the stomach of a horse when the horse has started to lean over them and try and crush them against the side of a stall.  In those circumstances there isn't much you can do to get the dirty bugger of a horse to stand up.

It is hardly abuse as a 500kg animal is only going to get startled than feel any intense pain.  Judging by how many do it again on another occasion they don't remember it either.

Chief, you are correct, the trainers do it to show who is in control and would be done by most trainers at some time.

Not going to name names, however there are leading stables in the country that do more than the odd impact to the horses stomach!

 

[Chief Stipe]

Seems a fair result although it's getting harder and harder to handle an animal that can inflict a lot of damage  if it wanted to.

the Adjudicative Committee accepts that the case also involves Driver safety issues.

 

CONCLUSION:

 

Having regard to the Penalty Guide and the penalties in the previous cases referred to, the Respondent Driver, Colin DeFilippi, is fined $400.

[Chief Stipe]

 

 

Hororata TC 12 February 2023 – R2 – Colin DeFilippi

ID: RIB15579

 

Respondent(s):

Colin DeFilippi - Driver

 

Applicant:

Paul Williams, Stipendiary Steward

 

Adjudicators:

Russell McKenzie

 

Persons Present:

The Applicant, the Respondent and Neil Macdonald, Starter's Assistant

 

Information Number:

A21122

 

Decision Type:

Adjudicative Decision

 

Charge:

Misconduct

 

Rule(s):

303(2)

 

Plea:

Not Admitted

 

Stewards Report

 

Results

 

Animal Name:

Lady Vincent

 

Code:

Harness

 

Race Date:

12/02/2023

 

Race Club:

Hororata Trotting Club

 

Race Location:

Methven Racecourse - 47 Mount Hutt Station Road, Methven, 7782

 

Race Number:

R2

 

Hearing Date:

12/02/2023

 

Hearing Location:

Mt Harding Racecourse, Methven

 

Outcome: Proved

 

Penalty: Driver, Colin DeFilippi, fined $400

 

BACKGROUND:

 

Following the running of Race 2, Chris Jones – “Buy Kiwi Made” – Trevor Beaton Memorial Mobile Pace, the Respondent Driver, Colin DeFilippi, as the Driver of LADY VINCENT in the race, denied a charge that he misconducted himself prior to the start when kicking that horse in the abdomen on one occasion.

 

Rule 303 provides:

 

(2) No person or body who holds a permit or licence under these Rules and no owner, trainer, breeder, stablehand, unlicensed apprentice or racing manager shall misconduct himself . . .

 

EVIDENCE:

 

Stipendiary Steward, Paul Williams, showed a video replay of the Trackside 1 channel coverage of an incident prior to the start of the race. The horse was being held by two Starter’s Assistants and the Respondent was attending to something on the off side of the horse. Mr DeFilippi raised his leg and, it was the Stewards’ allegation, kicked the horse in the stomach. He alleged that the stomach of the horse could be seen to react as contact was made. This action was improper, Mr Williams alleged, and the Respondent had thereby misconducted himself. The incident had been shown on the Trackside channel, he said. It was a deliberate act, even if only intended to calm the horse down.

 

The Respondent said that the filly had lost both earplugs in the preliminary and he was attempting to put them back in. She had been “stirred up, but not nasty” and his intention was to touch her on the stomach to stop her from shaking her head. The kick was with no force and, he submitted, contacted the hopple but made no contact with the horse. He accepted that his actions did not look good.

 

Starter’s Assistant, Neil Macdonald, showed a cut on his forearm that had been sustained while holding the filly. He said he had been holding the filly as she kept throwing her head around, and his arm had been cut by a sharp edge of the bridle. He believed that the Respondent had not been aware of the injury.

 

DECISION:

 

The charge is found proved.

 

REASONS FOR DECISION:

 

The Adjudicative Committee was not satisfied that it had been shown that the Respondent’s foot had made contact with the horse. However, the intention had been there, as the Respondent has admitted. The Adjudicative Committee accepts the Respondent’s explanation that his actions were well-meaning, and it was clear from the video evidence that the filly was proving difficult.

 

Notwithstanding that the Adjudicative Committee finds that the Respondent had not actually kicked the horse and that his intentions were good, his actions were improper and unacceptable and the Adjudicative Committee finds that he has misconducted himself. “Misconduct” is simply improper behaviour.

 

SUBMISSIONS FOR PENALTY:

 

Mr Williams referred the Adjudicative Committee to the Penalty Guide. The starting point for a breach of the Rule is suggested as a fine of $600, but is referred to as being “fact dependent”. The Respondent, if he did not contact the horse, has attempted to do so. The Respondent has a clear record and has cooperated throughout the pre-hearing, Mr Williams said.

 

Mr Williams submitted that a fine in the vicinity of $500 is an appropriate penalty. He submitted the charge is a serious one.

 

REASONS FOR PENALTY:

 

The Adjudicative Committee noted that the RIB Penalty Guide (effective 1 February 2023) suggests that the penalty is “fact dependent”, with a starting point of a fine of $600.

 

The Adjudicative Committee was not able to find a case in the Harness Code with similar facts to assist it in deciding penalty. However, a fine of $400 was imposed on a Jockey, in a recent Australian case, for kicking a horse in the stomach at a trials meeting. This is of some assistance, but the Adjudicative Committee is not aware of the full facts in that case. New Zealand cases are in the Thoroughbred Code. In a November 2020 case, a Jockey received a fine of $500 for striking his horse with the whip three times behind the starting barrier. That was a second breach. In October 2021, another Jockey was fined $350 for striking his mount twice in the birdcage post-race.

 

While the Adjudicative Committee accepts that no harm was done to the horse, such actions being shown on nationwide television coverage (an aggravating factor) do raise obvious animal welfare concerns and, therefore, cannot be condoned, but rather must be viewed seriously. Fortunately, such incidents are rare. At the same time, the Adjudicative Committee accepts that the case also involves Driver safety issues.

 

CONCLUSION:

 

Having regard to the Penalty Guide and the penalties in the previous cases referred to, the Respondent Driver, Colin DeFilippi, is fined $400.

 

[LongOwner]

Does the RIB have an agenda to destroy harness racing - a quiet off the record word to Colin and Terry about been careful as the TV is on would have sufficed or do they want a driver kicked in the head as it makes better TV?

No they have to write a report so the Press  and public can read a totally inflamed story about a minor event.

Where is the empathy for the sport, betterment for the sport and respect shown - none for years.

They behave like traffic cops of the worse kind giving out parking tickets .

The  industry/HRNZ needs to get in the same room as the RIB and discuss their overzealous, vindictive, and dictatorial  behaviour.

[Basil]

On 13/02/2023 at 8:50 AM, Chief Stipe said:

I've seen it too.  Normally with horses that have a hell dirty attitude.

Oh well, of course, that makes it alright then. Having an unacceptable "attitude" justifies anything (I must remember this next time the missus gives me some lip or the dog doesn't do what he's told...)

 

On 14/02/2023 at 10:38 AM, Chief Stipe said:

I really question the motivation of a small group of self proclaimed enthusiasts.  The ones that are talking about leaking the two "incidents" to mainstream media.

 

Why? After all, you're adamant it's a non-event, so wouldn't the public be able to work that out for themselves? Or are you worried they might put two and two together and start thinking along the lines of "Smeg me. If they do that in public, what are they doing at home?" Or that these incidents are just the latest in a long and sorry litany of disgraceful behaviour that will convince yet more people that something is very rotten in the state of harness racing?

Speaking of silence, the absence of any mention of this is remarkable even by the see-no-evil-hear-no-evil standards of this site. I think I know why though. Burrows' remarkable claim that “It seems honesty and integrity is not the best policy.” would, I suspect, leave even enthusiastic horse-bashing apologists like Brodie, Long Owner and Chief a bit red-faced, so best to remain mum and just pretend it never happened.

1 hour ago, LongOwner said:

The  industry/HRNZ needs to get in the same room as the RIB and discuss their overzealous, vindictive, and dictatorial  behaviour.

Would this be the same RIB that insists it can find no evidence of wrongdoing by the Telfers in the disgraceful racetrack deaths of three of their horses, despite there being about a 1-in-7 million chance of that being true? 'Overzealous' would be just about the last word that could be used to describe them.

Long Owner old son, it's time to come down off your 19th century pedestal. Believe it or not, women now have the vote, slavery is now illegal, Marx has been completely and utterly discredited, and horse-bashing is no longer acceptable.

[Chief Stipe]

27 minutes ago, Basil said:

Oh well, of course, that makes it alright then. Having an unacceptable "attitude" justifies anything (I must remember this next time the missus gives me some lip or the dog doesn't do what he's told...)

Then what do you suggest should be done?  I doubt you've ever been in a stable.  Some horses when they are race fit are so lit up they will try and kill you.

We all know what happens to the dog that bites don't we.  They are euthanased.  Most of the time if corrective training had been done earlier they wouldn't bite.

[Chief Stipe]

29 minutes ago, Basil said:

Oh well, of course, that makes it alright then. Having an unacceptable "attitude" justifies anything (I must remember this next time the missus gives me some lip or the dog doesn't do what he's told...)

 

Why? After all, you're adamant it's a non-event, so wouldn't the public be able to work that out for themselves? Or are you worried they might put two and two together and start thinking along the lines of "Smeg me. If they do that in public, what are they doing at home?" Or that these incidents are just the latest in a long and sorry litany of disgraceful behaviour that will convince yet more people that something is very rotten in the state of harness racing?

Hell wouldn't the industry be so lucky that the general public was sitting in front of Trackside all day.  The only reason this is an issue in the general public (if they actually give a damn) is because the likes of you have made it so.  Which raises the question what is YOUR motivation?

[Chief Stipe]

41 minutes ago, Basil said:

Would this be the same RIB that insists it can find no evidence of wrongdoing by the Telfers in the disgraceful racetrack deaths of three of their horses, despite there being about a 1-in-7 million chance of that being true?

We've discussed your statistical probability calculations before and a year 10 student at High School could do better.  Again what is your motivation?  What is your actual involvement in racing?

Post the method and calculations of how you arrived at you 1 in 7 million.  Let's have some peer review.

In my opinion your motivation is solely to destroy racing and or you belong to a very small but vocal group of embittered owners/punters.

[Gammalite]

50 minutes ago, Basil said:

If they do that in public, what are they doing at home?" Or that these incidents are just the latest in a long and sorry litany of disgraceful behaviour that will convince yet more people that something is very rotten in the state of harness racing?

C'mon mate , these people have been involved in harness racing for decades. they like horses. they are not horse bashers for throwing out an odd leg or arm at an unco-operative horse. the TV cameras just make things look bad, as they do in every sport (with replays , etc) the bloke only kicked the hopples he said and didn't even make contact much with the horse as it panned anyway.

I accept a leg or fist being thrown in one's direction does not look good, you wouldn't want to see that being directed at yourself , so People react with all the bull on this thread if they see that action. Meanwhile the yanking on reins , with a bit through the horses mouth (that is even more distressing for any horse) is never mentioned and is as common as day. 

When gearing up horses to race in the stable stalls many many many horses will 'dance' around a bit and get fiddegity and even throw a leg in your direction (while trying to put hopples on it , etc) Do you just stand there and say "please don't do that?" or give an open handed slap on the guts that with a combo of Movement, Sound, and Feeling makes the horse behave in a more attentive Manner ???? exactly like the use of reins and whip do in a race ??????

Happens down the stalls all the time mate, every meeting (don't bring your cameras please while gearing up lol.....) 

 

[Chief Stipe]

59 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

C'mon mate , these people have been involved in harness racing for decades. they like horses. they are not horse bashers for throwing out an odd leg or arm at an unco-operative horse. the TV cameras just make things look bad, as they do in every sport (with replays , etc) the bloke only kicked the hopples he said and didn't even make contact much with the horse as it panned anyway.

I accept a leg or fist being thrown in one's direction does not look good, you wouldn't want to see that being directed at yourself , so People react with all the bull on this thread if they see that action. Meanwhile the yanking on reins , with a bit through the horses mouth (that is even more distressing for any horse) is never mentioned and is as common as day. 

When gearing up horses to race in the stable stalls many many many horses will 'dance' around a bit and get fiddegity and even throw a leg in your direction (while trying to put hopples on it , etc) Do you just stand there and say "please don't do that?" or give an open handed slap on the guts that with a combo of Movement, Sound, and Feeling makes the horse behave in a more attentive Manner ???? exactly like the use of reins and whip do in a race ??????

Happens down the stalls all the time mate, every meeting (don't bring your cameras please while gearing up lol.....) 

 

Good stuff Gammalite.

I'm guessing @Basil has never seen a young horse being educated.  It's not called "breaking-in" without reason.

From my observation 1 in 10 young horses resist the process for a long time.  Normally until both man and beast are near exhaustion.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

C'mon mate , these people have been involved in harness racing for decades. they like horses. they are not horse bashers for throwing out an odd leg or arm at an unco-operative horse. the TV cameras just make things look bad, as they do in every sport (with replays , etc) the bloke only kicked the hopples he said and didn't even make contact much with the horse as it panned anyway.

I accept a leg or fist being thrown in one's direction does not look good, you wouldn't want to see that being directed at yourself , so People react with all the bull on this thread if they see that action. Meanwhile the yanking on reins , with a bit through the horses mouth (that is even more distressing for any horse) is never mentioned and is as common as day. 

When gearing up horses to race in the stable stalls many many many horses will 'dance' around a bit and get fiddegity and even throw a leg in your direction (while trying to put hopples on it , etc) Do you just stand there and say "please don't do that?" or give an open handed slap on the guts that with a combo of Movement, Sound, and Feeling makes the horse behave in a more attentive Manner ???? exactly like the use of reins and whip do in a race ??????

Happens down the stalls all the time mate, every meeting (don't bring your cameras please while gearing up lol.....) 

 

Pretty much sums up the reality and significance of what occurred. In other words not a big deal. 

I had thought that its a no brainer that the industry doesn't want trackside coverage of anyone kicking or punching a horse.

Its an issue officialdom deal with very rarely,so obviously drivers/starters attendants, etc are aware of that and also know the consequences.

I can't see the justification for criticism of the RIB in these cases.. This thread again highlights the them and us mindset that some have.

Edited February 17, 2023 by the galah