It's Prime Minister Ardern...OK.?

[hesi]

19 minutes ago, barryb said:

What you dont do is allow a party with less than 10% support to totally dominate you and punch way about it weight. Labour sold its voters down the river to NZF in order to gain power. Power which as they are discovering is at NZF discretion on every policy issue. 

It has been a fortuitous circumstance in this case, for racing

The Messara report

Abolition of the Racing Board and the top heavy costs that have weighed the industry down

Abolition of NZTR

Hopefully all to be replaced with something that works for racing

[pete]

30 minutes ago, Justamugpunter said:

You off course don't understand proportional representation!  

ps, I bet you were foaming at the mouth when you typed that out!   ?

I'm sure Barry understands it perfectly.

I'm sure you would have understood it perfectly if Don Brash had cobbled together a similar coalition of losers in 2005. Yeah right!

The current system gives a party that gets 7% a disproportionate amount of power.

A very simple solution as practiced elsewhere in the world - let the party that gets the most votes have the first chance to form a government.

Perfectly sensible and immediately removes the power wielding of the minority.

It may well have been that the current situation would have been the eventual result in the last election if that process had been applied. I can only speak for myself in saying that I would have absolutely no problem with that process if it had taken place.

It's called democracy.

 

 

[hesi]

15 minutes ago, pete said:

I'm sure Barry understands it perfectly.

I'm sure you would have understood it perfectly if Don Brash had cobbled together a similar coalition of losers in 2005. Yeah right!

The current system gives a party that gets 7% a disproportionate amount of power.

A very simple solution as practiced elsewhere in the world - let the party that gets the most votes have the first chance to form a government.

Perfectly sensible and immediately removes the power wielding of the minority.

It may well have been that the current situation would have been the eventual result in the last election if that process had been applied. I can only speak for myself in saying that I would have absolutely no problem with that process if it had taken place.

It's called democracy.

 

 

Unfortunately Pete, I think you would be in a minority.

The cacophony of bitterness and personal attacks, particularly from sites like WhaleOil, would only have been silenced had the petulant Nats got their way, and they didn't, and they would be better off addressing their energies at why not.

[Gavin]

2 hours ago, hesi said:

Ok, we'll give you that, early in the new year

Apart from the politics of governing, very interesting all this.  Who could honestly put their hand on their heart and predicted Ardern would have become such a charismatic leader.  I thought Andrew Little might do alright, then I thought Simon would do pretty good.

Is there anyone lurking in the ranks of the Nats, who could blossom when elevated.

After watching The Block the other night and seeing Paula Bennett, it won't be her

Never thought for a moment Andrew Little would do ok in the role. Good man and good politician but inadequate leader. Labour supporters were rightfully in hibernation when he was leader. Same scenario with Cunliffe and Goff. Bridges is in the same boat. NZ is not buying what he's selling and never will. I'm sure many within National are now quietly conceding that. . These "leaders" just don't connect with people in the way Key and Ardern do. The only way National can beat Ardern now is by also having a female leader. Amy Adams is as dull as ditch water but is one of their best hopes alongside Nikki Kaye who I believe is their best option at this time.

That aside, if the don't have any junior coalition partners, National can whistle Dixie until the second coming of Jesus. Who would want to go into coalition with National? The only hope they have is for someone with very deep pockets who is in the mood to commit political suicide. The cat killer is out but his party seems like their only option which is just sad.

Ms Ardern is way more than just our PM. She represents a significant baton change for all Kiwi's, especially the younger folk who are the countries future. There had to be another way of getting the job done that valued people over and above all else. Ardern is that change and it was well overdue. National did a great job of showing NZ how much it needed someone exactly like Ardern. In general terms, I can't stand politicians. They give me the shits. Ardern is the first politician who I embrace. Not because she's labour but because of who and what she is. 

[Gavin]

2 hours ago, barryb said:

The trouble with everything you say Gavin is the country never gave Labour a mandate not even close, mid 30s in fact. That's a crux of it and why many are bitter, the main party couldn't even get close to 50% support. They got by with zero policy and continue today to hobble together I'll thought out ideas that will cost us well into the future.

I have some sympathy with National being shown the door after gaining more votes than any other party and it being NZF that showed them the door. This has caused considerable bitterness and resentment from those who feel they should be Government.  Under MMP, having more votes than other parties is not enough. Coalitions are the name of the game and for good reason. Look what happened to National's coalition support parties. Gone! Why? If National were so bloody wonderful, why did NZ reject and send their support parties to Coventry? Mandates are grossly overrated. I would much rather have different coalition groups working together than having arrogant Governments forcing policy onto NZ regardless if that policy is bad for the country. What we have now is far healthier. As for Governments being decided by parties with a low % of the vote. That's just the way it is. If you don't like it, vote to return to FPP or whatever electoral system you prefer. Interesting to note that had that party with a low % of the vote chosen National in October, I'm certain you would have been very happy with the arrangement.  

 

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, pete said:

I'm sure Barry understands it perfectly.

I'm sure you would have understood it perfectly if Don Brash had cobbled together a similar coalition of losers in 2005. Yeah right!

The current system gives a party that gets 7% a disproportionate amount of power.

A very simple solution as practiced elsewhere in the world - let the party that gets the most votes have the first chance to form a government.

Perfectly sensible and immediately removes the power wielding of the minority.

It may well have been that the current situation would have been the eventual result in the last election if that process had been applied. I can only speak for myself in saying that I would have absolutely no problem with that process if it had taken place.

It's called democracy.

 

 

What you're suggesting Pete, amounts to tinkering with the system until it suits your chosen party. I agree that it's ironic that NZF had the power to decide which party would be Government. I do believe NZF took that role seriously. Had National been gifted the first bite of the cheery, it wouldn't be MMP. 

[Weasel]

Apart from the politics of governing, very interesting all this.  Who could honestly put their hand on their heart and predicted Ardern would have become such a charismatic leader ...

A story for you, Hesi ... in 2010 (?) or thereabouts I was walking up College Hill en route to a business appointment and happened to see the outdoor sign for"MP Jacinda Ardern" as I walked past an old house that was her office at the time. I thought, stuff it I'll go in and ask to see her for a moment ..if she's in ...and she wasn't. (She had been getting quite a profile for herself on TV and radio around the time)
I had only one brief message for her, so I left it with her secretary: "Tell her  that a businessman  came in from the provinces who said "you'll be Prime Minister one day".

[Poisoned Dwarf]

HARDERN

6yo Chestnut Gelding
D.O.B: 11-Nov-2012
by HARD SPUN (USA)  from NORTHERN ROSE

[pete]

57 minutes ago, Gavin said:

What you're suggesting Pete, amounts to tinkering with the system until it suits your chosen party. I agree that it's ironic that NZF had the power to decide which party would be Government. I do believe NZF took that role seriously. Had National been gifted the first bite of the cheery, it wouldn't be MMP. 

Not at all Gavin. Take a look elsewhere in the world where MMP runs successfully and you'll find they adopt the same approach.

Even dear old Winston used to espouse this before he let his hatred of National get in the way of common sense.

'Tinkering' implies that you feel the current system is perfect. It isn't.

Tell me how you'd feel if Labour got 45% of the vote and National, Act and the Maori Party managed 46% despite National only getting 37% of the votes and formed a government?

Don't bother answering. I know it's only ok when the left do it.

 

[Tonkatime!]

7 hours ago, hesi said:

Ok, we'll give you that, early in the new year

Apart from the politics of governing, very interesting all this.  Who could honestly put their hand on their heart and predicted Ardern would have become such a charismatic leader.  I thought Andrew Little might do alright, then I thought Simon would do pretty good.

Is there anyone lurking in the ranks of the Nats, who could blossom when elevated.

After watching The Block the other night and seeing Paula Bennett, it won't be her

You are right on one thing it won’t be Paula Bennett. 

In terms of who’s lurking in the ranks, if labour lose the next election then Arden would have had two cracks at it and lost both on Election Day and need to go. Then who would they chose? They have literally no one with any cut through or public appeal. 

[pete]

Or competence.

[barryb]

9 hours ago, pete said:

Don't bother answering. I know it's only ok when the left do it.

 

Pete, you have hit the nail on the head about left wing political parties around the world.

Reminds me of a greenpeace supporter I know who turns up to meetings in an old wreck of a car bellowing out burnt oil. Also happily making regular trips around the world spreading the green message via a fossil burning plane.

[Justamugpunter]

I hear that  a new right wing party is about to be formed!

The Chicken Little Party!  lead by Henny Penny! their catch cry is going to be "the sky is falling".

ps. as this is a things racing site! please  remind me again what the Nat$ done for racing during their 9 years in power? the silence to this question is deafening!!!!

I will give you all a hand with this, they threw a few dollars for  race course maintenance!  

[curious]

30 minutes ago, Justamugpunter said:

I hear that  a new right wing party is about to be formed!

The Chicken Little Party!  lead by Henny Penny! their catch cry is going to be "the sky is falling".

ps. as this is a things racing site! please  remind me again what the Nat$ done for racing during their 9 years in power? the silence to this question is deafening!!!!

I will give you all a hand with this, they threw a few dollars for  race course maintenance!  

True but a better question might be what has racing done for racing in the last decade? I don't really think it's the government's job is it?

[Kopia]

48 minutes ago, curious said:

True but a better question might be what has racing done for racing in the last decade? I don't really think it's the government's job is it?

And thats the point that the lefties don't get.  National were very 'hands off' it's true. however their attitude was pretty much ' fix your own mess up before asking the Govt for any assistance'..and racing never did. Plenty of moaning and bitching from numerous quarters, particuarly the trainers assn who achieved..what?   Now we are lumbered with a 'no personal responsibility' government who seem to trying to be everything to everybody..and the wheels are falling off....

[Gavin]

10 hours ago, Kopia said:

And thats the point that the lefties don't get.  National were very 'hands off' it's true. however their attitude was pretty much ' fix your own mess up before asking the Govt for any assistance'..and racing never did. Plenty of moaning and bitching from numerous quarters, particuarly the trainers assn who achieved..what?   Now we are lumbered with a 'no personal responsibility' government who seem to trying to be everything to everybody..and the wheels are falling off....

So every person who supports our Government just doesn't get it.  Conversely, every person who supports National does get it. How convenient and what a coincidence. Anyone who agrees with you is correct and anyone who disagrees must therefore be incorrect. Again, what a complete shock.

National were very "hands off" you say. A euphemism of course for deny and display indifference to the plight of everyone who's not a National Party voter and needs support. The familiar and divisive National Party catchcry of fark em back on the table. There is the undeniable stench of condescending arrogance all through your input. Ironically, that same stench is often apparent when National Party supporters are communicating online.  

[hesi]

Come on guys, isn't she just handling herself so well with those stick in the mud American TV hosts.

All off the cuff, nothing rehearsed, hasn't looked like a chump when John did the pre-prepared 10 question thing.

Come on, just admit it, she is handling herself with aplomb, even you one eyed right whingers(I used to be one) can see that

[barryb]

5 minutes ago, hesi said:

Come on guys, isn't she just handling herself so well with those stick in the mud American TV hosts.

All off the cuff, nothing rehearsed, hasn't looked like a chump when John did the pre-prepared 10 question thing.

Come on, just admit it, she is handling herself with aplomb, even you one eyed right whingers(I used to be one) can see that

Hesi, there is no denying she is going well, but yet again you are missing the point like you lefties often do, the rest of the mob are f--king hopeless incompetents. 

[wally]

25 minutes ago, barryb said:

Hesi, there is no denying she is going well, but yet again you are missing the point like you lefties often do, the rest of the mob are f--king hopeless incompetents. 

baz how can you say she is going well

[wally]

34 minutes ago, hesi said:

Come on guys, isn't she just handling herself so well with those stick in the mud American TV hosts.

All off the cuff, nothing rehearsed, hasn't looked like a chump when John did the pre-prepared 10 question thing.

Come on, just admit it, she is handling herself with aplomb, even you one eyed right whingers(I used to be one) can see that

hesi how many leaders turned up a t her speech

[barryb]

5 minutes ago, wally said:

baz how can you say she is going well

I just said it to appease the loonies on this site.

[wally]

58 minutes ago, barryb said:

I just said it to appease the loonies on this site.

i watched one of her speeches there as no one there  apart from donald he sat in the front row  lol

[hesi]

So come on, who are you guys going to front up with, we've already ruled out Paula, sorry the makeover just didn't cut it

 

[wally]

2 minutes ago, hesi said:

So come on, who are you guys going to front up with, we've already ruled out Paula, sorry the makeover just didn't cut it

 

hesi we have a secretweapon

[Gavin]

Anyone who watched her speech today and are scathing of it, wouldn't know if their arse was on fire. They know nothing about public speaking, nothing about leadership and even less about sincerity. 

Look at the Dipton Double Dippers farcical speech on election night. 

 

Completely contrived. Reeked of insincerity. Was little more than the arrogance of National attempting to hoodwink and brainwash NZ into believing they had won the election. Hands raised in the air in the traditional celebratory victory style and even had the victory balloons drop from the ceiling. What a farking joke. The actual result was that National's coalition partners were gone and they now needed Winston Peters to get back into Government after attempting to wipe him off the political landscape. This was a virtual worst case scenario for National yet they attempted to sell it as a victory. As for English's non existent leadership and public speaking skills. Look how many times he has long sustained looks at his written speech. If he had been sincere, he would not have needed a contrived speech. He knew he couldn't just repeat the same boring narrative about strong stable Government bla bla bla and was brutally exposed. Despite that, his mostly male cheerleaders championed his woeful performance. 

Then look at Ardern today. Total sincerity and completely natural. The only people who are negative about it are the entitled and still sulking blue cheerleaders who are desperate to get traction against her. They have lost all sense of balance. Their time has been and is now mercifully, gone.  We now have a real leader who believes homes are for housing people, not for increasing the investment portfolios of National Party supporters etc etc etc.