curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: @curious have I got this right that even when Entain steps in there will still be a TAB Board and possibly Senior TAB managers. Basically is the Entain deal an outsource deal for the wagering service only or is it essentially a Corporate takeover with a license to operate for 25 years? There has to be some Governance structure that overseas that Entain meet their side of the bargain. Yes. TABNZ will still exist. They retain their responsibility for distribution to codes, collecting income from other sources, managing the service contract with Entain etc. I don't see why people are so confused about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Newmarket said: Try to attract customers to their NZ brands? Are you talking about overseas customers being lured by Entain? Yes. I assume that would be part of the reason why they plan to launch another brand designed to directly compete with overseas bookies like Sportsbet, 365 etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: @curious have I got this right that even when Entain steps in there will still be a TAB Board and possibly Senior TAB managers. Basically is the Entain deal an outsource deal for the wagering service only or is it essentially a Corporate takeover with a license to operate for 25 years? There has to be some Governance structure that overseas that Entain meet their side of the bargain. If that is the case it is hard to see where savings or increased revenue is going to come from. Any serious punter using those offshore agencies will soon get around the blocking of sites so the 'monopoly' is hardly going to be particularly effective 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, curious said: Yes. I assume that would be part of the reason why they plan to launch another brand designed to directly compete with overseas bookies like Sportsbet, 365 etc. Interesting. So we would have different accounts? Not allowing NZers to bet overseas is my big issue. On one hand they want to stop it happening, yet they are looking for overseas punters to bet with Entain /Tab? I just don’t see how on one hand they want the monopoly, yet want to steal other countries punters? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Reefton said: my thoughts entirely. The NZ Harness racing might be of a good quality by international standards and I suppose greyhounds are greyhounds but not sure the NZ Thoroughbred product quite matches up to the worlds best. Big job to attract international punters to that schmoozle! Yes, I suppose different time zones might allow NZ codes to be bet on. I am just struggling with the GEO Fencing but, stop me betting in Aus on Aussie racing, yet at the same time they will be welcoming overseas punters to bet with them, of course on Aussie racing??? This won’t go ahead, anyone with common sense knows this will be a total stuff up 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, curious said: Yes. TABNZ will still exist. They retain their responsibility for distribution to codes, collecting income from other sources, managing the service contract with Entain etc. I don't see why people are so confused about this. Are you Einstein or something? The deal is designed to be confusing. I doubt there has ever been a deal similar or maybe you know of one. People still scratching their heads. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Newmarket said: Yes, I suppose different time zones might allow NZ codes to be bet on. I am just struggling with the GEO Fencing but, stop me betting in Aus on Aussie racing, yet at the same time they will be welcoming overseas punters to bet with them, of course on Aussie racing??? This won’t go ahead, anyone with common sense knows this will be a total stuff up Well if they do pick up an overseas punter they are business people so they are hardly going to share the profits with the NZ racing industry are they? No no no this new punter will be taken aside and offered all manner of sweeteners from their offshore operations. it will be strictly the NZ profits(if any) they will be sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Reefton said: Well if they do pick up an overseas punter they are business people so they are hardly going to share the profits with the NZ racing industry are they? No no no this new punter will be taken aside and offered all manner of sweeteners from their offshore operations. it will be strictly the NZ profits(if any) they will be sharing Reefton, Being a club person how do you think sponsors will react when they rightly or wrongly assume they are supporting an outfit like Ladbrokes? I'm betting quite a few won't want anything to do with racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 3 hours ago, curious said: Yes. TABNZ will still exist. They retain their responsibility for distribution to codes, collecting income from other sources, managing the service contract with Entain etc. I don't see why people are so confused about this. Right so we now have a cost that presumably comes out of the Entain payment? Sorry for being confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assange Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Right so we now have a cost that presumably comes out of the Entain payment? Sorry for being confused. That pots getting smaller by the day as more facts emerge. Who gets the call on how its getting dished up? What happens when the RIU want more money for their costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Right so we now have a cost that presumably comes out of the Entain payment? Sorry for being confused. Those costs have always come from the wagering revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) Think the RIU had always been funded by the pokies? Apparently they are goooone in this new agreement. Edited June 2, 2023 by Blackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, Blackie said: Think the RIU had always been funded by the pokies? Apparently they are goooone in this new agreement. True in recent years. Integrity used to be funded by the codes prior to the pokies. Don't know how that will be funded as the pokies are phased out. It's really the codes responsibility so they may have to pick that cost back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, curious said: True in recent years. Integrity used to be funded by the codes prior to the pokies. Don't know how that will be funded as the pokies are phased out. It's really the codes responsibility so they may have to pick that cost back up. Do you know how many members of that unit there were before pokies funded it, and how much they got paid? I think the days of the gravy train are over and maybe we should be seeking honorary members for these boards. You might see true racing enthusiasts on top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 hour ago, curious said: True in recent years. Integrity used to be funded by the codes prior to the pokies. Don't know how that will be funded as the pokies are phased out. It's really the codes responsibility so they may have to pick that cost back up. They will have to. Kaching there goes $17m. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: They will have to. Kaching there goes $17m. Another legacy of Cameron George. The original RIU was his brainchild. Prior to that we had code allocated stipes. Not sure whether the Racecourse detectives in those days were code specific or oversaw the lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: They will have to. Kaching there goes $17m. True. Be interesting to see how they do that. Can't imagine they'll send out a fleet of trucks on August 1 to collect 500 pokie machines as some seem to be suggesting. There will obviously be contracts with venues etc as well as the financial matters to consider. If they phase them out, say evenly over 5 years, then that's an extra $3m a year that codes or the TAB will have to find from elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 43 minutes ago, curious said: True. Be interesting to see how they do that. Can't imagine they'll send out a fleet of trucks on August 1 to collect 500 pokie machines as some seem to be suggesting. There will obviously be contracts with venues etc as well as the financial matters to consider. If they phase them out, say evenly over 5 years, then that's an extra $3m a year that codes or the TAB will have to find from elsewhere. You raise an interesting point about venues. How many of the venues are racing industry owned and rely on the ground rent from the machines? Doesn't Harness Racing have quite some exposure in this regard? No doubt Ellerslie are flush enough to cover their loss bit I imagine it makes their venue a lot less attractive to visit. I assume of course they still have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Why are the pokies going, spose you could ask why were the ever installed but they were a revenue earner. Does that mean that entain will be doing all the gaming, maybe online only ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, mikeynz said: Why are the pokies going, spose you could ask why were the ever installed but they were a revenue earner. Does that mean that entain will be doing all the gaming, maybe online only ? No. They don't have a licence to do any gaming, nor now will the TAB. Sport and racing wagering only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 1 minute ago, mikeynz said: Does that mean that entain will be doing all the gaming, maybe online only ? That's a good point. My understanding is the 500 pokies are gone completely I.e. taken out of circulation. As far as I know a NZ owned entity is not allowed to run online gaming I.e. online pokies. If they were allowed then Sky City and LOTTO would be quickly off the cab rank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Pokies don't bother me, played them online, kind of realized they were a great drain on finances,(mine) but nonetheless a great funder for the host, seems weird the TAB getting rid, what is the reason. Could be they are just thinking of the people not harming themselves, so those people will probably go somewhere else and probably won't go in a TAB again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, mikeynz said: Pokies don't bother me, played them online, kind of realized they were a great drain on finances,(mine) but nonetheless a great funder for the host, seems weird the TAB getting rid, what is the reason. Could be they are just thinking of the people not harming themselves, so those people will probably go somewhere else and probably won't go in a TAB again. It was part of the agreement to ensure the Government agreed to sell the tarnished TABNZ silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 WHERE? Some people on here seem to have seen some sort of presentation. Could I ask again where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 hours ago, The Centaur said: WHERE? Some people on here seem to have seen some sort of presentation. Could I ask again where? The only presentations I know of are the announcement by the Racing Minister and the three Entain Road Shows at Hamilton, Awapuni and Addington. I'm finding the differing interpretations from these announcements interesting. I heard most of the Jason Pine interview with Dean Shannon of Entain today. Dean said this is the first time he has had an agreement with a government, having already gone into 32 other countries. That comment suggests the TAB have been shoved aside and Entain are dealing directly with those at the Beehive. Dean said Entain are concerned that greyhounds and horses are looked after both whilst in work and retired so, that should appease the animal welfare people. Dean met with problem gambling groups on Monday before his presentations to stakeholders which is more than McAnulty did. Before his announcement, despite his report being full of harm minimisation statements, Kieran had only spoken with SAFE and SPCA. Back to these pokies. Is 500 pokies across New Zealand a big percentage? If you look around your area think about how many machines there are in each venue does 500 pokies still seem significant? Is this a smoke screen? Mikeynz asks if the concern could only be to stop a pokie user harming themself. All this talk of harm minimisation is ridiculous. If the harm caused by punting on whichever chosen method is the concern, why does Entain express their objective is to "grow the pie", "increase market share" and however else they describe the method of making people bet and lose more? I have to wonder where it is that everyone thinks we are going to be as an industry in five years? I bet wherever that is Cameron George will be hanging on to a title somehow by his fingernails. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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