Blackie Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Gammalite, getting more handsome everyday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 13 hours ago, Doomed said: So it's all about being able to have feature 2yo races in Nov Dec rather than April May? I never realised that was the major reason for the change. Found this Mr Doomed that helps with a bit of reasoning >>>>>>>> paste..... Changing the season permanently to a calendar year is intended to bring about a number of important commercial, marketing and welfare benefits across the industry. Most noticeably from the outset will be some major changes to the Feature Race Calendar, with the traditionally condensed season-end juvenile features able to be staggered throughout the year, with the space for States and Clubs to build momentum for promotion, wagering, visiting horses and interest in the sport. As all horses will now turn a year older on 1 January each year, the additional 4-months provided for due to the racing year change can also benefit the education, training and confidence of young horses preparing for their racing careers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 18 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: brodster bats both ways? Entrepreneurial as ever with his own gear range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 18 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: got a bit mixed up me old mate . that's rite national party not nat lol I'm missing Nat 😢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 17 hours ago, Doomed said: 2yos always used to be able to race in Nov, if I can remember correctly. And galloping 2yos can start racing from Sept, and are already having group races in Nov. Both nights of the Cup Meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gammalite said: Found this Mr Doomed that helps with a bit of reasoning >>>>>>>> paste..... Changing the season permanently to a calendar year is intended to bring about a number of important commercial, marketing and welfare benefits across the industry. Most noticeably from the outset will be some major changes to the Feature Race Calendar, with the traditionally condensed season-end juvenile features able to be staggered throughout the year, with the space for States and Clubs to build momentum for promotion, wagering, visiting horses and interest in the sport. As all horses will now turn a year older on 1 January each year, the additional 4-months provided for due to the racing year change can also benefit the education, training and confidence of young horses preparing for their racing careers. Its actually an interesting subject and i think there was always more logical reasons to keep things as they were and not change. The main reason seemed to be because australia have done it,we had to. Now when a horse oficially turns 1 its really about 1 year 1-2 months old whereas in the past that same horse might have only been 10-11 months old. Sure they may be better developed when it comes time for the bigger races that could be programmed later in the season,but its only the select few that run in those races. They aren't actually adding anything to a horses racing longevity. HRNZ claimed there is scientific evidence it extends a horses racing career.How on earth do you get scientific evidence around something when its never had a chance to be tested? Thats like claiming the covid vaccine has no long term side effects for anyone. Its a bit like moving the goal posts while at the same time moving the field so as to compensate for the goalposts being moved. The aussies also said it brought them in line with the horses born in the likes of the USA. That seemed a strange argument because the reason the recognised birthdays was different was because the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere have different climate seasons.That one is a bit of a no brainer so there was never any logic in that one. Thoroughbreds in the southern hemisphere haven't changed. They seem to recognise that the climate seasons are the major factor in when horses come into season and are born,and base there seasons around that. Both aussie and hrnz said they hoped it may increase numbers being bred. That was like saying i wish the sun comes out in christchurch each day over winter. It was nothing but wishful thinking and never deserved a mention. There were other reasons given,but they weren't convincing either. What i wonder about was how it will effect the timeframes around mares being bred. For example we had a mare who always carried her foals about 11 months 3 weeks. a couple of times we only sent her to stud in late december and she had foals that were born after january 1.She was always easy to get in foal(no additives earlier in life always helped that),but won't they now limit some mares from being served after january 1. Like i said its an interesting subject. Edited August 3, 2023 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) Oh and i have discovered why HRNZ said horses birthdays, the premierships and all that which go from january 1 to december 31, are different from the racing season which is still 1 august to 31 july. Its because the racing act refers to the season as being from august to july and it takes some time to change such things. And of course factor in the thoroughbreds have never changed so that would mean that also means changes in the racing act,thats why it is as it is. The result is 2 years on and people are still confused about the harness racing season Edited August 3, 2023 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, the galah said: The result is 2 years on and people are still confused about the harness racing season you don't seem confused in your arguements. You're leaning more to a negative angle on it but too late for that. Mares carry foals for a term of a couple of weeks short of a year in nearly all cases. Get em served before Christmas and their foals will be nice and strong by the time they race in the big races in November /December. some will be Winning on their actual Birthdays. Did you see my Akuta example ? was just shy of 4 when winning the re-programmed Nz Derby last year (DEC 4th odd ? ) . All 3 year olds should be quite mature by this stage and EVERYONE has a chance of getting a Derby runner ready. AKUTA being that strong he got to start in the NZ CUP as a 3 year old as well . how good ? might happen every year from now on ? brilliant !!! Even more important for 2 year olds , Before the poor buggers were 'Rushed' to the races if wanting to be in 2 year old races before Christmas. The Sires Stakes in Cup week had to be for 3 year olds (until this season change recently ), as there were Not enough 2 year olds ready for racing when only foaled for 2 years . Now with this great swing we will have nice strong 2 year olds and run a Proper 2 yo Sires Stakes in Cup week for the youngsters. 2 year-olds that are just about to turn 3. BETTER FOR EVERYBODY trying to prepare a young horse , and WAY BETTER for the horses developement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: you don't seem confused in your arguements. You're leaning more to a negative angle on it but too late for that. Mares carry foals for a term of a couple of weeks short of a year in nearly all cases. Get em served before Christmas and their foals will be nice and strong by the time they race in the big races in November /December. some will be Winning on their actual Birthdays. Did you see my Akuta example ? was just shy of 4 when winning the re-programmed Nz Derby last year (DEC 4th odd ? ) . All 3 year olds should be quite mature by this stage and EVERYONE has a chance of getting a Derby runner ready. AKUTA being that strong he got to start in the NZ CUP as a 3 year old as well . how good ? might happen every year from now on ? brilliant !!! Even more important for 2 year olds , Before the poor buggers were 'Rushed' to the races if wanting to be in 2 year old races before Christmas. The Sires Stakes in Cup week had to be for 3 year olds (until this season change recently ), as there were Not enough 2 year olds ready for racing when only foaled for 2 years . Now with this great swing we will have nice strong 2 year olds and run a Proper 2 yo Sires Stakes in Cup week for the youngsters. 2 year-olds that are just about to turn 3. BETTER FOR EVERYBODY trying to prepare a young horse , and WAY BETTER for the horses developement. I understand where your coming from,i just don't agree that there were many trainers who had been pushing their horses to race in the higher stake races in april/may anyway.I thought the most popular thought was,whats the point running them early because only 2 or 3 stables win those races.Better off to give them another 4-6 months to develop.So i think not much will change other than the winners will be the horse thats in the best form in november instead of may.As you say,that may give some horses more time to catch up on those that were earlier developers. The reason you will get more 2 year olds racing latter in the year is because you already had lots of 3 year olds doing that,so now you change those 3 year olds back to aged 2,obviously that means there will be more 2 year olds race. Why would a horse that previously was not ready to race until november be at an advantage when in reality he will be racing the very same horses that he would have been prior to the change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 So, What is the point of the racing season going back to August to July again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Brodie said: So, What is the point of the racing season going back to August to July again??? The racing season wouldn't be going back as it never changed in the first place. Its still august to july like its always been. Edited August 3, 2023 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 42 minutes ago, the galah said: The racing season wouldn't be going back as it never changed in the first place. Its still august to july like its always been. Eh? Then what was all the palaver about the premierships? The Trainers and Drivers Premierships are running 1 January to 31 December are they not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Eh? Then what was all the palaver about the premierships? The Trainers and Drivers Premierships are running 1 January to 31 December are they not? Correct, the racing calendar , as are the horses birthdays, the only three things that have changed. Unfortunately, mother nature says the breeding season is in spring , foals are born, mares served and this cant be changed. By changing the horses b/days they are hoping that more will be served after the new year without the penalty of foals turning one too soon. Thoroughbreds status quo. I think HRNZ have some more work to do re communicating this, bit of a hot potch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Eh? Then what was all the palaver about the premierships? The Trainers and Drivers Premierships are running 1 January to 31 December are they not? Yes your correct there chief. Horses birthdays,premierships are from january to december. My take on it is the confusion arose right from the start when they first made the change and said they were having a transitional season. If the racing season was to remain august to july because that was what was in the racing act and they couldn't change that ,then why did they use the words transitional season? The fact that most are still confused is proof they did a poor job of explaining it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 19 minutes ago, the galah said: Yes your correct there chief. Horses birthdays,premierships are from january to december. My take on it is the confusion arose right from the start when they first made the change and said they were having a transitional season. If the racing season was to remain august to july because that was what was in the racing act and they couldn't change that ,then why did they use the words transitional season? The fact that most are still confused is proof they did a poor job of explaining it all. But for all intents and purposes the season runs from 1 January to 31 December. In effect the financial year for accounting purposes is 1 August to 31 July. The racing calendar must be determined prior to 1 August. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 4, 2023 Author Share Posted August 4, 2023 What an absolute stuff up by whoever changed it!! No point at all for this BRAINWAVE from someone! If they wanted to change the horses birthdate to January then they couldve without all this other palaver surely? Anyway it is what is, we are so lucky we are in such good hands with administration! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Brodie said: If they wanted to change the horses birthdate to January then they couldve without all this other palaver surely? Well mate , ya are always calling for a change to Government, TAB regulations , and other assorted palaver. Now you got a change with the dates, to follow the Aussies in to a better extended racing season for the horses , you still Not Happy 🤔. Just Think of the horses mate . they' ll be much better off anyway . and to get away from the palaver , just get some good Aussie Pavlova dessert 🍰 into you. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 4, 2023 Author Share Posted August 4, 2023 51 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Well mate , ya are always calling for a change to Government, TAB regulations , and other assorted palaver. Now you got a change with the dates, to follow the Aussies in to a better extended racing season for the horses , you still Not Happy 🤔. Just Think of the horses mate . they' ll be much better off anyway . and to get away from the palaver , just get some good Aussie Pavlova dessert 🍰 into you. 😉 Gone thru to the keeperGamma! How is the season extended? The season according to HRNZ is August to July! Trainers can race their horses anytime they want to and when their horses are ready! Apart from the change of the horses birthdate for age based races there is absolute no benefit whatsoever!!!! It doesnt extend any horses racing life at all! Anyway we can all relax everything is in good hands.👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brodie said: How is the season extended? The season according to HRNZ is August to July! Trainers can race their horses anytime they want to and when their horses are ready Well it's still a year. It's just the Calender year now. it being the harness racing season. Your post their about 'race their horses Anytime' is indeed the RELEVANT one. You need Trainers to have every hope of preparing horses well for the feature races. The 2 last Nz Derby winners tell the tale. the 2 best horses of their years. Just check out Akuta's preparation late last year into this year and the time frame and what he achieved. Has set the Standard for training program for All Trainers to follow. An nz Cup start as a 3 year old , then Derby win (now run the first week of summer ), through the Race, and culminating into his great Auckland Cup win as a 4 year old in May. devastating . perfect even. (as Mark always is) Compared to Krug (the best of the previous season when the dates were the cocked up old way, and the struggle to get him up all year round for the Dalgety's was not ideal) . Derby in the Autumn etc. Krug Still hasn't recovered from the poor timing he endured of feature races as a 2 and 3 year old into his 4 year old season IMO. Trainers (and horses) can do the preparations so much easier now , (and the Best Ones can follow the Akuta lead anyway from Now On in race programming from 2 to 3 to 4 yearold ) perfection. the 6 months extra developement on your horse makes a huge difference Brodster. You might think it doesn't , but I assure you it truly does . especially 2 year olds.... Edited August 4, 2023 by Gammalite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 4, 2023 Author Share Posted August 4, 2023 8 hours ago, Gammalite said: Well it's still a year. It's just the Calender year now. it being the harness racing season. Your post their about 'race their horses Anytime' is indeed the RELEVANT one. You need Trainers to have every hope of preparing horses well for the feature races. The 2 last Nz Derby winners tell the tale. the 2 best horses of their years. Just check out Akuta's preparation late last year into this year and the time frame and what he achieved. Has set the Standard for training program for All Trainers to follow. An nz Cup start as a 3 year old , then Derby win (now run the first week of summer ), through the Race, and culminating into his great Auckland Cup win as a 4 year old in May. devastating . perfect even. (as Mark always is) Compared to Krug (the best of the previous season when the dates were the cocked up old way, and the struggle to get him up all year round for the Dalgety's was not ideal) . Derby in the Autumn etc. Krug Still hasn't recovered from the poor timing he endured of feature races as a 2 and 3 year old into his 4 year old season IMO. Trainers (and horses) can do the preparations so much easier now , (and the Best Ones can follow the Akuta lead anyway from Now On in race programming from 2 to 3 to 4 yearold ) perfection. the 6 months extra developement on your horse makes a huge difference Brodster. You might think it doesn't , but I assure you it truly does . especially 2 year olds.... No problem at all with the racing year being from Jan to Dec. calendar year as that is what we have for most other things. The horses birthday age now gets changed as from the 1st January ! So why can this not be the racing SEASON? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, Brodie said: No problem at all with the racing year being from Jan to Dec. calendar year as that is what we have for most other things. The horses birthday age now gets changed as from the 1st January ! So why can this not be the racing SEASON? What do you define as "the Racing Season"? The horses age is adjusted 1 January. The premierships run 1 January to 31 December. What is the season other than a financial year according to the Racing Act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gammalite said: Well it's still a year. It's just the Calender year now. it being the harness racing season. Your post their about 'race their horses Anytime' is indeed the RELEVANT one. You need Trainers to have every hope of preparing horses well for the feature races. The 2 last Nz Derby winners tell the tale. the 2 best horses of their years. Just check out Akuta's preparation late last year into this year and the time frame and what he achieved. Has set the Standard for training program for All Trainers to follow. An nz Cup start as a 3 year old , then Derby win (now run the first week of summer ), through the Race, and culminating into his great Auckland Cup win as a 4 year old in May. devastating . perfect even. (as Mark always is) Compared to Krug (the best of the previous season when the dates were the cocked up old way, and the struggle to get him up all year round for the Dalgety's was not ideal) . Derby in the Autumn etc. Krug Still hasn't recovered from the poor timing he endured of feature races as a 2 and 3 year old into his 4 year old season IMO. Trainers (and horses) can do the preparations so much easier now , (and the Best Ones can follow the Akuta lead anyway from Now On in race programming from 2 to 3 to 4 yearold ) perfection. the 6 months extra developement on your horse makes a huge difference Brodster. You might think it doesn't , but I assure you it truly does . especially 2 year olds.... Akuta won 2 group 1 races in May when a 2 year old. So he would have been under the same pressure as krug to get ready for the big 2 year old races in may of his year as krug would have been. But it makes sense when you say its what Aluta and Krug were asked to do racing starts wise after that, which lead to Akuta having a much better chance at a longer racing career age wise. To say that trainers will not pressure their 2 year olds to race early now they have moved a couple of races to latter in the year is assuming the trainers think they have a horse that is good enough to do so. They had to make the same call just it was 5 months earlier anyway and it is only for a couple of races after all. Did anyone use the argument about the jewels being a bad thing in reducing a horses longevity when the jewels was around. Those suggesting it now seemed rather silent then. Hrnz has put forward the same argument of suggesting trainers will not pressure their horses as early simply because the birthdays have changed. Well its hard to take them seriously because it is HRNZ that has prioritized 2 year old racing over all other and said we will pay the connections an extra $12000 when you win your first 2 year old race.That is a totally contradictory message they are sending out. Does anyone seriously think trainers will not want to find out whether they have a 2 year old good enough to win early and instead wait and take their chances of becoming the very top 2 year old and winning 2 races in december. No ones ever been able to explain yet why HRNZ,through the $12,000 extra,considers 2 year old winners more important than any horse 3 and above. Edited August 4, 2023 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 17 minutes ago, the galah said: They had to make the same call just it was 5 months earlier anyway and it is only for a couple of races after all. You're kidding? 5 months doesn't make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You're kidding? 5 months doesn't make a difference? Showing only that part of my comment does not put what i said anywhere near the context if you read what i have said in total. Thats like me saying to you Your kidding? you won the 2 higher stakes races in december and you had no idea 6 months earlier that could happen.. Or gee,how stupid do you feel. You had my horse ready to win the $12,000 bonus in march,but you gave him a bit of time to develop because you were sure he would win those 2 big races in december.By the way,your fired as my trainer. Edited August 4, 2023 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 1 hour ago, the galah said: . Does anyone seriously think trainers will not want to find out whether they have a 2 year old good enough to win early and instead wait and take their chances of becoming the very top 2 year old and winning 2 races in december. Yes . you are right . is that you want to hear. You can Race your 2 year old all through the year now if you want to . He has already turned 2 from foaling date . Before , the way it was >>> very few 2 yearolds are good enough to run 1.56 -2.00 min mile before new -year . Very few raced first half of the season . NOW, with the new season dates >>> they are nearly 3 years old, when al the good races come on (including Sires Stakes ) later in year , so obviously A Lot more horses are Ready and Able to Cope ? 6 months more mature Seems so very rational to me . Most of the 'Nice ' 2 year olds in Australia will be beginning their Spring campaigns soon . Horses love racing Spring and Summer when feeling great. Didn't have to fire up those 2 year olds in the Autumn anymore if you don't want too. Fantastic... Sack your trainer if you want that Autumn cash that they didn't collect for you. But the more patient owners and trainers prosper. And the Horses DEFINITELY BENIFIT not being rushed. Lol when I was in NZ , the trainers were Notorious for not getting horses going till they were 4 a lot of the time 😉 . very slow to get them racing . This season system helps them blokes Ten fold lol.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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