Chief Stipe

I have no idea what the customised Strathayr system they put in place at Ellerslie is like. In my opinion the top layer needs a loam/organic matter content to improve its buffer capacity and to allow better turf growth while allowing hooves to actually penetrate the surface. That would work if the underlying drainage system is as per the Strathayr standard. It is going to take a lot of coring and mechanical intervention now to get the top layer right. I'm not sure what grass variety they have used either which might be another factor. I don't really have enough information to offer any more of an informed opinion than that. I was disappointed with what I saw.

The Jockey comments tell a story! Willo deflected. JMac was embarrassed. Ben Melham had a dig. Jockey Quotes - Queen Elizabeth Stakes Find out what the jockeys made of their mounts after the Group 1 $5,000,000 Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m) at Royal Randwick. Declan Bates (Pride Of Jenni): That was all her today. Over the last six months, the times I’ve ridden her we had a nice rhythm with each other and when I’d ask her to come back she’d come back a bit. “Today, when the horse on the outside came to her, she grabbed the bit and she didn’t drop it at any point. “I was actually concerned that we were doing a bit too much. To be honest, until we hit that line I wasn’t happy at all today until it was done. “I couldn’t tell you what the sectionals were. Generally once we’re doing it nice and smoothly, I’m aware. Today, just knew we were going quicker than I wanted to so it was a matter of coming back, coming back, and she said ‘nah I’m going’. She knows better. “It is amazing. Tony Ottobre has changed my life putting me on these horses. Just to be a part of this, you know, it is something special. It really is. “I knew when I got out today she had a spring in her step and I was concerned that she was getting to the end of her prep. “You can usually hear them coming and I was tempted to have a look back but I kept my eyes on the post.” Pride Of Jenni wins the Queen Elizabeth Stakes James McDonald (Via Sistina): “Embarassing.” Craig Williams (Mr Brightside): “I was so pleased with his performance. I love the way he felt and most importantly the way he recovered and came back after the race. Take nothing away from Pride Of Jenni. She is phenomenal. My horse turned the tables on Cascadian so it showed you that my horse was better than the Australian Cup.” Ben Melham (Cascadian): “Dunno what to say really. The race was over after three furlongs. Second and third horses should have tacked up. It was always going to win with a scenario like that.” Blake Shinn (Buckaroo): “He didn’t jump the best. Liked to have been forward. When he didn’t jump it put him out of the race. Winner dominated.” Nash Rawiller (Kovalica): “He’s run a great race. I think I really love this horse. Just didn’t work out too well for us today.” Josh Parr (Zeyrek): “He reached his top speed a long way from home and it’s not to his liking.” Tommy Berry (Place Du Carrousel): “Just not the same horse today.” Tom Marquand (Ceolwulf): “At halfway it was open what was happening. I was locked up on fence. I was happy with the complexion of the race. A tough run for him.”

Interesting the descisions made by the other Jockey's. At a Time: 2:02.02 Last 600m: 0:37.83 for the 2000m I think the others were left sleeping a bit. Aguably the best Jockey's in OZ in that race but I'm not sure they judged the pace that well. Would be interesting to see the early sectionals but I'm not sure where to find those. Perhaps @curious can help.

This camera could pan back far enough!

Where did you pull those figures from? Is buying a $1.01 share in a syndicate really serving anything? Who is parasitising who in this "partnership"?

But retail businesses are very careful not to piss off their core long term customers. Probably because they have open competition. You just don't get it do you? For a start I haven't thrown any toys out of the cot but I do object to seeing a group selected out for favouritism over the average customer. You may well like joining the boys as a middle aged stale grey because you want to be part of the fun and in your own words mingle with some of the young fillies but that type of shallowness isn't for me.

Which should be - Please take the moderation off or I'm out of here. I gather you are outta hair already. Why is it you can post sensibly on you Twitter (X) page and not here?

Only if the refund was given back as a bonus bet. All the talk so far has been they got cash back. The difference between a bonus bet (virtual money) and cash back is considerable in terms of profit/loss to the TAB. The cash back is real money however they may put a restriction on it being withdrawn only after a specified time period. I've seen them do that before.

@TAB For Ever I think @the galah put it very well but I'd just like to reinforce that because many of us have a different opinion it doesnt make us jealous or haters. In fact most of has have had considerable skin in the game over the decades and have a long passion for the game. However we are getting somewhat cynical of all the hype and BS that we have seen time and time again for no real fundamental change. Yeah stakes increase (on borrowed shareholder funds) and the marketing hype goes ballistic. Meanwhile some of us are desperately looking for a decent track to train on, a safe and fair track to race on, a decent jockey or driver to handle our horses assuming that the programming and handicapping give us an opportunity to compete for those glorious stakes to provide an opportunity for ENTAIN to pay back their marketing budget and subsidised stakes. Here's hoping that with the BGP getting into horse ownership that they use their apparent influence to get some fundamental change. Perhaps they might think differently if their horse goes around at Ellerslie on KM night and ends up injured.

I've got a really good building to sell you! Yep the bonus bets are a genius strategy. Here's some virtual dollars which you can use to bet on fixed odds which we'll adjust the price to cover ourselves and then deduct the bonus "gift" if you happen to win. Why don't they just stop all this BS and offer a fair competitive price in a book that isn't at 140%? Oh that's right soon they can offer whatever they want because they'll have more of a monopoly.

Most serious punters know that most of the promotions are cons targeted at the gullible. Take a boosted bet for example. A classic supermarket ploy where you advertise that the recommended retail price is $10 but have it on special at $5 when no one sells it at $10 ever. So a boosted price is just the real price with the TAB hoping the mug newbies buy at the non boosted price.

So? Any number of syndicates do the same thing.

But can't they do all that without the TAB subsidising their bets?

How can it be great advertising when it alienates your core customer? Surely there are marketing options that don't do that and offer a better return on investment.

I don't think @Brodie understands that it is a syndicate that you buy $1.01 shares in. It all goes back to the individuals accounts if there are any winnings.

The length of the roots aren't the problem. It is the matting creating a sheer plane in the top layer. The grass is well irrigated and fertilised and is quite lush. The horses slip on the green lush grass and can't get their hooves into the top layer of matted roots. In my opinion the sand is the issue.

I just asked a question. How is it profitable for the industry? I know for a fact the approach ENTAIN takes with the BGP leaves a sour taste in the mouths of many average punters who have no desire to join the Boys. However I guess like the BGP as a group it's members don't win often and ENTAIN can see that on each individuals profile. Thinking about it they might strike it right one day and it's a no risk proposition if ENTAIN keeps giving their money back when they lose.

So how does the industry benefit by forgoing profit one day in the hope that they will make it back the next day? Ironically that investment goes back to individual punters who won't be topped up today and some will be limited in how much they can win. So if the BGP Betting Syndicate is topped up when they lose but paid out when they win how does that benefit the industry coffers?

Effectively the profit taken from a successful punter is being redistributed to an unsuccessful punter. Does it not follow that the price the successful punter bought at is less than it should of been? Therefore the smaller punter loses if they win AND when their punt is unsuccessful. I guess ENTAIN see it as a low risk way of bumping the pools up not that we can see the size of the book.

But correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will - borrowed that line from Scooby) my observation of Foxton was that it had built up a decent layer of organic matter in the top layer over many many years. That layer provides a buffer that retains moisture but excess drains through to the sand. You don't have that time with a $55m track that you expect to race on in less than 8 months. Sand has the lowest water and nutrient retention ability of any substrate. Attached is a paper comparing peat vs sand. I understood that StrathAyr had a mix in the top layer but artificial structure in the bottom layer that facilitated drainage. We are putting far too much sand in our tracks in an environment where we have high rainfall variability on a weekly basis thereby increasing the need for expensive irrigation and trying to apply that evenly. pdf-106790-37625.pdf

Call it a hybrid AWT. Reading between the lines it seems they didn't have the right machine equipment until recently. The remedial work they are doing should have been happening from the start. The issue seems to be that the horses hooves don't dig in because of the matted layer of fine roots in the top layer. Which is clear in this core photo:

Pure sand? Hint @curious you can't race on a spud paddock.

It's not a bloody farm it's a $55m race track!!! It's an absolute myth that a good dairy farmer from the wop wops could manage a high performance race track. There aren't any good farms built solely on sand dunes. They are great for links golf courses but not all that great for growing turf. There's 300mm of sand in the top layer at Ellerslie. Why don't you take an old feed bucket home, drill some holes in the bottom fill it full of sand and see what you can grow. Oh and don't forget to constantly water and fertilise the bucket.

I didn't realise he farmed cows on a beach.