Chief Stipe

Which is a big part of the problem. There is a lot going on and tasks are not allocated correctly. I would say the "Manual" is flawed. CAN YOU POST THE MANUAL THOMAAS? You seem to know a lot about what's in it. Or are you posting on the basis of hearsay AGAIN?! Since you and lasagne are not interested in posting anything constructive but are intent on blasting the Starter, on the basis you are big punters who got hurt, it looks like I'll have to post another positive system change. Another improvement that could be made is that the person in control is the person on the ground leaving The Starter (or more accurately the guy who pushes the button) to focus on those horses and jockey's in the gates. There is enough going on to keep the average person occupied. Plus it would be difficult to see ALL the barrier blankets etc from the Starters stand. Maybe the person on the ground could raise a flag to say ALL Clear. The signal needs to be visual or anything other than voice.

Once again Thomaas you have added nothing constructive. Can you post the Manual and the rules pertaining what happens behind the gates? What are the Clerk of the Course(s) responsibility, the jockeys, the barrier attendants....etc. A "Manual" doesn't solve anything if the manual is impractical and things have changed. The "Manual" may very well describe a process that is flawed. A bit like ISO quality control - you can get ISO accreditation but it doesn't confirm you have a GOOD process just that you have A process.

I don't believe "simple communication" channels can work in the present scenario where there is so much going on. I've stood behind or alongside starting gates many a time over the years and recall that there is a lot of activity, bustle and noise going on. Add in all the extra requirements that we have today and there are bound to be mistakes. I don't believe you can heap the blame all on the Starter if something goes wrong given they are not in total control. Why is it that every Starter in action today has made mistakes? People don't set out to make mistakes. When you compare the percentage of stuff ups over the number of races held I'm surprised there are not more. Every system has systemic error built in. A bit like trying to get the road toll down to zero - when you have vehicles passing each other in opposite directions at 100 km/hr and are 2 metres apart you will get accidents. One thing they could do to improve things is what they do in Japan or Hong Kong (or is it both?) is when they start loading they restrict the movements of the horses behind the gates. They walk up a rope/tape to confine where the horses can go. We have seen a trend in New Zealand where the horses are scattered like Brown's Cows. Jockeys parking themselves and their horses in the shade etc. How many times have you seen a horse having to be trotted from what seems 50m+ away to the gates?

YOU may not care what goes on behind the gates however I'm sure there are many who support my contention that the activity behind the gates has got out of hand. You are obviously used to a push button world. If indeed you are I'm surprised you are not suggesting that there should be another button in a safe position down on the gates which the assistant starter must press before the starter on the stand "has power"....

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It's not irrelevant but obviously beyond you comprehension. Tell me how would it work if every horse in the NZ Derby required a barrier blanket? PLUS a blind fold? Actually it would be easier to manage because there would be no exceptions. I suppose you were one of those that laid into the Starter when the barrier blanket was left off a runner in a previous Derby?

Wit-less?

OK man of few words. 30 years ago can you remember - barrier blankets, hoods, blind folds, preferential treatment to when horses go in the gates, Clerk of Course horses being used to keep starters "happy"....so on and so on?

Nice to see he is taking a pragmatic approach and aligns with my thinking.

I'm not defending anything. I'm just highlighting the fact that what goes on now from when the horses leave the birdcage to when the gates are loaded and opened has got increasingly complex without a corresponding increase in resources. You may wish to take a simplistic approach if you wish.

Oh so THEY WERE following the manual! So "Scooter" always takes the "middle to outer" even when he is THE Starter not the Assistant?

I believe it is a significant part of the problem. In a general sense the Starter has lost control. It is chaos behind the gates. The Starter has far too many things to focus on now. Their job should be confined to observing the behaviour of the horses and safety of staff and jockeys in the gates and ensuring that each horse is in its designated gate. Also the power to declare a false start if clearly defined criteria has been met. I'm waiting for the day that a horse starts with a blindfold or a removable hood still on. Do you blame the Starter if that occurs? Afterall they get blamed if someone forgets a barrier blanket for a poorly educated horse.

I've long heard rumours that there was a "swept under the carpet" moment at the TAB with at least one bookie. Once source of that information I would deem extremely reliable. Do you have a name for this "bestie bookie"? Are they still employed at the TAB? Send me a PM with the information if you wish. Thanks

Rule Number(s): Push OutMr Bennett was charged with breaching the Push Out Rule - 869 (4) (6) (b) (c), in race 5 when he shifted CARTER outwards forcing THE RHYTHM OF LIFE wider on the track with 1100 metres to run. Mr Bennett admitted the charge. Mr McIntyre, with the aid of the videos, said CARTER was four deep on the running ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

Rule Number(s): Push OutAmateur Horseman Mr A Edge was charged with breaching the Push Out Rule - 869 (4) (6) (b) (c), in race 1. Mr Edge RUSSIAN EXPRESS shifted outwards forcing RAH DE RAH (G Anderson) wide with a lap to run. Mr Edge admitted the charge. Mr McIntyre, with the aid of the videos, pointed out the relevant positions ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

Rule Number(s): 638(3)(b)(ii)This charge arises from the running of race 5 the Thames Harness Racing Club 100 Years 1600. An Information was filed pursuant to Rule 638(3)(b)(ii) by the Informant, Mr Coles, alleging that Miss Johnson used her whip excessively prior to the 100 metres when riding ELISA CAROLINA. Miss Johnson said that ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

Rule Number(s): 330(3)(c)This charge arises from race 5, the Thames Harness Racing Club 100 Years 1600. The Informant, Mr Coles filed an Information pursuant to Rule 330(3)(c) alleging that Mr Harris failed to make the contracted weight for ALFA ROSSO. Mr Harris was not present at the meeting, but Mr Coles advised the Committee, ... (Feed generated with FetchRSS)View the full article

You're not going to give an opinion on why Pinmedown was to be the last horse in? Another question what were the barrier attendants doing at the time? Holding onto blindfolds and barrier blankets?

What has your point got to do with my opinion? Answer this question - why was Pinmedown given the luxury of being the last horse in the gates? Hint: It wasn't being vetted.

OK we disagree. But I still think the issues are related. Who decided that Pinmedown should be the last to load? Who asked for the Clerk of the Course and his horse to stand beside it? Trainer's and Jockey's have taken over.

I guess you lectured in the social sciences. This is classic systems failure which has more than ONE contributing factor. Sure the Starter let the field go with one horse missing. But my argument is that there was more than ONE contributing factor. The whole scenario now behind the gates is a complete mess. It is under resourced. Mistakes will happen and will increase unless those resources are addressed. Geez it wasn't too long ago that a frequent poster on BOAY was lambasting the Starter for the omission of a barrier blanket! Wasn't that the Derby field? In that case 24 horses to be loaded in about two minutes and all the individual horse requirements to be correctly catered for. Simplify it. Start with - "Get lost Mr Trainer - your horse will go in the order that it is supposed to go in. No exceptions."

The demands on barrier attendants and starters have gone up but the resources haven't. You watch Hong Kong tomorrow night how many attendants there are. Or watch Japan where once the horses are behind the barriers they restrict their movements. In NZ we let them wander all over the place so they can have a quiet moment to themselves away from all the other horses. In my opinion these extra demands has resulted in the Starter losing control. Time to stop all the exceptions. If your particular horse can't behave then you will be scratched.

It seems you agree with me. Now they get a blind fold, hood, a cuddle from the Clerk of the Course's horse, a barrier blanket and preferential last to load.

You'll be entitled to gloat and have a "told you so" moment. But it won't happen unless stakeholders with real skin in the game don't make it as uncomfortable for NZTR as they can. Give a friendly journo a ring on a newspaper or three telling them about possible health and safety issues if it goes ahead. Don't give Bernard any room to move but in the right direction. Ring round all the other stakeholders. I bet Bernard isn't back to work until Monday at the earliest. Not for him working over Christmas/New Year dunging out stables, doing early morning trackwork, carting horses all round the country.

I'm saying that limited resources makes it more difficult for the starters. Have someone with authority in charge that gives the all clear to the starter to do his job. And/or cut out all the variation behind gates like preferential loading to some horses - i.e. do what they used to do load from the inside and the centre regardless, be harsher on horses that don't behave (that'll soon get them trained/educated properly), increase the number of attendants. Doesn't matter what you write in a bloody manual or in what language if resources don't match the requirements.