
Doomed
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Everything posted by Doomed
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Certainly a big year next year. The Warriors and Ellerslie both doing their thing.
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Arguably the best track we have seen in the country over the last few weeks has been Timaru. And yet they are a totally despised club, only just hanging in there while some of the greatest intellects the game has ever seen are desperate to move all their meetings to the Riccarton AWT. Strange old world.
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Back in the 70s and 80s the "Cup" races at the likes of Methven, Ashburton. Timaru. Rangiora, Orari etc were class 4, 5 or 6 fronts, and they provided great racing as horses strived to get through to open class. That class of horse hardly seems to exist these days, and anyone can race in so called open class races. I'm not involved enough with harness racing these days to know whether it is a handicapping problem or something else. As a casual observer I do wonder whether the trots might be better served by reverting to a wins based structure so the general public know what's going on. For example, perhaps have 3 win fronts with conditions, so horses can still drop back a bit but the public can still understand it. Obviously the 2yo approach hasn't really worked. The real problem seems to be the lack of depth in the open class ranks. The days of having the likes of Bonnies Chance, Armalight, Locarno, Hands Down, Sapling, Lord Module etc regularly racing against each other are long gone. Ironically they didn't keep going year after year because of massive stakes but more because their owners enjoyed the challenge and the thrill of it. We really do seem to have lost our way. I know I no-longer find harness racing interesting at all, which is sad. The only really "innovative" thing that has happened in harness racing in recent years is the return to grass track racing. Perhaps they need to revert to some of the other "old" ways as well.
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That is something I keep meaning to ask. Someone must know. Who is pushing this strategy? Is it Entain? And has NZTR just rolled over and said "It's your money, do what you like." Or is it NZTR, and if so who? There must be an architect. Perhaps its the breeders. Perhaps it's the trainers assoc. Perhaps the owners. We know it isn't the jockeys because 6 of the northerners were happy enough to head down to Riccarton today to race in small $17,000 races. Some of them for only a couple of mounts, so obviously stakes don't really matter to the jockeys. I have always assumed it must be one influential person at NZTR and the board with no racing knowledge are stupid enough to go along with it, knowing, as mentioned above, that most of them will be long gone when it all goes belly up. Unless it goes belly up even quicker than we expect.
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Vichyssoise TAB, very trendy.
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Purely my opinion, but I think they are totally deluded. Those stakes increases are something you do when the industry as a whole is trucking along really well and you think what can we do to make it even better. I don't actually think the industry as a whole is going all that well and I don't think those increases will help most participants at all. It would be interesting to know what all those racing for $17,000 this week think of those increases. Is Michael Pitman for instance overcome with excitement about all those massive stakes at Ellerslie. But, as I said, there will be a lot of people who are ecstatic about the proposals and who think it means the industry is booming. I suppose we will have to wait five years to find out one way or another.
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I can recall the Sapling Stks on the big grass track at Ashburton being one of the big 2yo races. Not sure if it still exists but it certainly isn't as prominent.
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That was weird as well. Many years ago the trots would have kicked up a hell of a stink if the gallops tried to intrude like that. The gallops decided to abandon Sundays several years ago when some half-wit was in charge, in favour initially of the gold mine that would be Monday racing. That didn't end well. Now suddenly the gallops have decided they would like to have another go on Sundays. By my estimate, trots turnovers on Sundays will halve. Even gallops turnovers will drop. A gallops meeting coming off a Friday afternoon racing by themselves to a Sunday competing with three other clubs will see a significant drop in turnover. I presume this has all been pushed Entain who have some great plan in place. I can only imagine the codes have been told to leave Saturdays clear for Aussie racing and told they will all benefit. But, I thought the codes only benefited from betting on overseas races of their own code. So I don't see how the trots benefit from betting on Aussie gallops. I don't recall seeing a single press release from NZTR or HRNZ, or even Entain, explaining why they have made this sudden change to the dates structure. It could be an expensive mistake if it doesn't work. I can only assume they have seen a dramatic drop off in people with strong religious beliefs and feel they want to rush in and fill this gap in the market.
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One bit I don't quite understand is that the trots are still running $8,000 and $10,000 races, and they are about to introduce heaps of unsustainable new meetings in areas where there are no horses and no interest. Other than things like $100,000 Invercargill Cups and a few other high staked group races with six horse fields the trots don't seem to have benefited from Entain's largesse. The gallops meanwhile run $50,000 open races with six horse fields which in no way can be self funding. So the gallops apparently are getting heaps more from Entain than the trots. I have no idea about the dogs. Is this because Entain sees the gallops as providing product for their overseas markets? The whole thing seems hard to analyse at the moment. Certainly nothing like the 80s and 90s when stakes were directly related to turnovers.
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All that has really happened is that stakes have gone up because Entain stuck their hand in their pocket and said "here have this." There is no sign that anything significant about the structure of NZ racing has changed other than stakes. And there is no indication that the stakes increases are sustainable. Fields seem to be no better and the little information we get about turnovers doesn't indicate any uplift. Sponsors now appear to be virtually non-existent with Entain and the TAB sponsoring most things. As someone said, smoke and mirrors.
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I have never actually watched it. Don't even know when its on. Is it more of a PR exercise or an expert analysis show?
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Any idea why this show shuts down for the winter months? Are people not really into racing during these months? Personally, as a punter, I found last weekend's racing some of the best betting propositions for ages. Not only do NSW and Victoria have decent sized fields at this time of year but SA has some great racing and Queensland is really getting going. Even NZ has some decent sized fields.
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Just bloody lucky they still have the Sunshine Coast track. In NZ it would have been closed down ages ago and sold off for housing. Especially with the Gold Coast having an AWT. The distance from the Gold Coast to the Sunshine Coast is exactly the same as ChCh to Timaru, Which I suppose makes Ashburton the Brisbane of NZ.
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Galah, you will do your head in if you expect any decisions from HRNZ or NZTR to make sense. And your already troubled head will be even more stressed if you expect any accountability.
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You do wonder about the intelligence of restricting Marlborough to the one 2 day meeting per season whist handing heaps of new meetings to Manawatu. I wonder if this new ideology is the work of Entain or someone at HRNZ? It seems strange to me that the trots would happily give up most of their Saturday meetings. There must surely be concerns about off course turnovers on Sundays. Whereas previously the likes of Methven had Sundays virtually to themselves they now find themselves competing for the off course dollar with another trot meeting and a couple of gallops meetings. It won't end well.
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Has there been any information about the total number of galloping meetings compared to the current season? Normally when things like this are announced they mention something about the total number of licences etc and any significant changes in each region. I haven't spotted anything like that this time.
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I just had a very quick look at the new calendar for 24/25. Lots of extra meetings across the three codes apparently, but I didn't see any mention of exact figures for galloping, so not sure if there are more or fewer galloping meetings, or perhaps exactly the same. The notable difference is all the new Sunday meetings. Gallops virtually every Sunday, two gallops on many of them and often two gallops, a couple of trots and even dogs on a Sunday. So Sunday is to become the big race day of the week after the gallops had previously abandoned it. Now they have abandoned Fridays to provide the new Sunday meetings. It is clearly all designed by Entain with some new theory, largely based around Saturdays becoming the day for NZ punters to bet on Aussie races. I do find this a bit strange to be honest. Sunday is traditionally a poor day for off course turnovers as most punters have lost most of their money betting on Saturday. Sunday was originally intended as the day to encourage on course turnover as many people work or are occupied on Saturdays, and Sunday is their only remaining leisure day. But, I had understood on course turnover is no longer considered important. All very confusing. You have to feel a bit sorry for the trots. Not only have they been allocated heaps of new meetings in the North, where there are no horses, but the exclusive little slot they previously had on Sundays without much competition has now been intruded on by a couple of gallops meetings most Sundays. Conversely, Friday which should be a good day for off course turnover has virtually been abandoned. Obviously Entain feel there is enough racing coming out of Orange and Cessnock to make the most of Fridays. Without getting into specifics, I do notice that in Canterbury the only meeting between Timaru on 21 November and Ashburton on 18 December is an 8 race AWT meeting at Riccarton. One 8 race AWT meeting in the space of four weeks in mid summer! The CD has 9 meetings during that period. Are there three times as many horses in the CD compared to Canterbury? There is surely a message there for all Canty trainers who have horses that aren't quite of Cup Week standard. No such thing as tiered racing in NZ, or in Canty at least. Does NZTR consult with the trainers assoc? And does the trainers assoc in Canty come back with "We have consulted with our members and every single one of them is aiming all of their horses at Cup Week and would then like a six week spell after that, except perhaps for an AWT meeting which they are all keen on." Just on the subject of 8 race meetings, I notice that virtually all gallops meetings are scheduled to have 8 races. Even those recent meetings that have run 9 or 10 races. Sure they do sometimes split races if there is an excess number of noms, but not always. But splitting races is never as a good an approach as programming properly in the first place. All well and good to split 40 noms for a 65 1,400m race into two races, but probably better to programme the Rating 65 races over 1,200m, 1,400m and 1,600m in the first place. And on the subject of Timaru. Bad move to successfully conduct a 9 race card on a good 4 yesterday. That meeting has gone altogether. Can't have them showing up the "brains trust' at head office. All the clubs that have had abandoned meetings over the last few months are successfully entrenched in the calendar for next season though. It certainly is an interesting run industry.
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Hasn't helped their brand at all.
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Every time I have a look at harness meetings they have several tiny fields. Some small fields for relatively massive stakes at Invercargill last week. Must have been enormous punting to fund those stakes. Tiny stakes too. I looked at one meeting recently that had $8,000 and $10,000 races. The bit I don't understand is that they seem to know exactly how many races they will run at meetings 12 months and more away. Surely if they are anticipating running one race for a certain class and they get 30 noms then they will have to run an extra race. And surely if they are planning to run two races for a class and they get only 10 noms then they will run only one race. Others are probably much more clued up about this than me.
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I did always wonder why they didn't take the opportunity with such a long shutdown to do any other work that needed to be done, such as a reconfiguration where necessary, perhaps a new chute. I suspect they wanted to be able to sell off as much land as possible so didn't want to use up any additional space.
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We must always remember that the AWTs were largely gifted to the industry by Winston, although whether someone suggested the idea to him I don't know. NZTR's expressed view was they couldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. His theory was that they would stop abandonments, which as we have seen far too often hasn't happened. There was a high level of corruption with the Riccarton one, paid for as it was by the PGF: the province of Yaldhurst. Unfortunately, NZTR saw it as a great opportunity to fully or partially close down heaps of tracks they didn't like: Rangiora, Banks Pen, Waimate, Timaru, Oamaru etc around the ChCh one. Ironically all provincial tracks closed down by the PGF. Whether Winston knew this was NZTR's ultimate plan I don't know. I'm sure a lot of people thought they would be a nice thing to have as an add on. I don't know that they realised the consequences of NZTR wanting them to become dominant in many areas.
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Boys Get Paid having a nibble at trotsfullstop..
Doomed replied to TAB For Ever's topic in Trotting Chat
Do I take it you didn't have a share in BGP Brodie? -
Ellerslie Abandoned 10-April-24. They should have raced at AVONDALE
Doomed replied to The Centaur's topic in Galloping Chat
I have decided it is best just to treat it all as a bit of a joke and stop worrying about it. It has got to the point where nothing surprises me anymore.