Doomed

Try and get a SI horse to the Karaka, or to the Derby or Oaks for that matter. Ironically running 10th in the Wakefield just about guarantees you a start in the Karaka this year and last year. And as to Ashburton, my bad maths. They start 14 so there are already 11 missing a start if they don't split it. And I did notice all the maidens that will miss a start as well, but thought I had better not push it. And I should probably be charging NZTR a decent consultancy fee for this, but what the hell, the reason you don't have many horses in rating 74s and open races is because they can't get out of maidens and 65s. We almost need tiered racing. Now there's an idea.

If anyone wants an example of the different treatment for NI and SI racing you need look no further than this statement today regarding this week's Ashburton meeting. The R65 1400 MAY be divided IF more nominations are received.. 25 noms already and they may divide it if they get more. No more noms and 9 will miss a start. One or two more noms.....yeah nah, still not worth splitting it. Contrast that with Pukekohe this week. 20 noms for a 2yo race, one already scratched. Sure no trouble, of course we can split it, no worry about running 12 races.

Could someone remind me why they stopped racing at Westport? It was probably the biggest galloping track on the Coast. Stopped some time in the 80s from memory. I think Nelson stopped at a similar time.

You must tell us more about this idea of moving the Kumara meeting to the Riccarton AWT. Might be seen as a bit controversial. Could also be highly embarrassing if Omoto and Reefton get good fields and the AWT struggles to get a quorum. Very brave of them too when you consider the Cambridge AWT has been up and going all year and the highest grade of race they have held on it is a 74, and here's Riccarton that has never been raced on holding open class feature races. That assumes they do race the Kumara Cup. It would also be embarrassing if they change from a Kumara meeting with genuine sponsors for every race to a metropolitan meeting with no real sponsors, just a recycling of some of the names they used during Cup Week.

I did think the discussion was drifting slightly Chief.

It's not as if the SI is asking for a hand out, the frustrating thing is there is enormous potential in the South if it was run properly. There are plenty of horses they just aren't being utilized properly. Look at Ascot Park last Saturday. The only maiden was over 1,400m. So several horses who wanted a start had nothing for them. And of those maidens who did start over 1,400m probably 50% would rather have been racing over 1,200m, 1,600m or 2,000m. And people wonder why form is inconsistent. One of the basic things that needs to be fixed is that they need to programme 10 races, rather than 7 or 8 and possibly split one, which currently happens. The SI doesn't have the luxury of two meetings in a row a couple of days apart with multiple opportunities over various distances which happens in the NI. I think we are at the stage where the prominent trainers have to take a stand and point out what is wrong.

All very good points from both yourself and Freda. Back in those days of course most races were run for similar stakes so other than the various "Cup" races it didn't really matter where you raced. These days we have our unique version of tiered racing so if you want to run in a $30,000 rating 65 you have to travel 8 hours or so. We also had 10 race programmes in those days so there were more likely to be suitable options for most horses. Now some fully fit horses can go 5 or 6 weeks without an opportunity. And there used to be suitable target races to aim for. Wingatui for instance had the Guineas and a decent 2yo race on Boxing day. Most Wingatui stakes that day were similar to Timaru a couple of days later, now massively different. A Canterbury horse aiming for the Timaru Cup this year has to warm up via a $15,000 rating 80 at Riccarton. A Canterbury horse aiming for the features at Wingatui on Boxing Day has no warm up options at all. I may be totally wrong and Canterbury trainers may be totally set in their ways, but it does seem that something isn't quite right. It seems strange that once you come through $50,000 low grade races on NZ Cup Day your next big target is $12,000 races on the Coast.

"Superstar" Wow. That is a great advertisement for SI racing anyhow. After winning a $10,000 five horse maiden in the NI, a couple of wins and a placing in Canterbury and it is a superstar. Which does tend to make it even stranger that Canterbury has to go 77 days without a feature meeting.

You can hardly blame him. It must be frustrating being a professional in an industry run by amateurs. SI racing would virtually collapse without the Tylers, Parsons and Pitmans. The big players really have to stand up for themselves before it is too late. It seems extraordinary to me that there is no feature meeting anywhere in Canterbury for 77 days from 13 Nov to 29 Jan. The North just had two such meetings 24 hours apart at Tauranga and Te Rapa. How on earth do trainers retain owners?

I still haven't read anything about this anywhere else. Is this an actual story? Seems strange that a Group 1 winner would break down or whatever and not get a single mention anywhere other than this one conversation.

What's the story with this Humbucker? Looks a pretty promising horse. Normally it is horses that have reached their mark in the north that get sent South, but this fellow came off a 4th in a $50,000 race at Ellerslie, then raced in a $12,000 race in the deep South. Then yesterday in open company as a two win horse. He looks as if he would be competitive in better company up North. I don't recall one that good being sent to race in the South for a while.

Great win for Lightning Jack in Sydney yesterday. Good to see the Tylers have a go and head for the good money. And a brilliant ride by the other Tyler, covered no extra ground. Unbelievable price.

The Wakefield is an interesting case. I'm sure it was only one poor field away from being downgraded. Does a decent field at Te Rapa save the race for another year?

What do you expect him to do? Have a one man picket outside TAB HQ. At least he keeps those running racing into the ground under some sort of surveillance, otherwise who knows what they would get away with.

What exactly has happened to Noverre? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

As was I. Created a lot of interest: Scotch Tar that is, not me.

Why is there no NZ interest this year? Is it the covid problem? What are the finals worth?

You certainly need to be double vaxed in Nelson. They have an abnormally high % of anti vax nutters there.

Raced and led against the pacers one night at Addington. Run down in the straight I seem to recall.

Nothing wrong with finishing up at Hutt Park back in those days. I can recall Locarno and Bonnies Chance winning the Wgtn Cup in the early 80s. Delightful Lady got beaten. Then the likes of Master Mood. Bionic Chance etc. The Cup was worth $40,000 in the late 80s. I recall Scotch Tar racing there, can't remember if he won or not.

Probably needs NZTR to say we will give you another couple of days if you sort your track out.

I'm not sure that his report would go down well with the hierarchy currently running racing in the South. They think everything is going quite well and the more tracks they can close down the better for everyone. I do hope he addresses issues such as the lack of 2yo racing in the South, several months without a 2yo race after the Welcome Stakes, and why there is no 3yo racing in the South for several weeks after the Cup meeting when virtually every meeting in the NI has a 3yo race of some type.

Very accurate Reefton. And to a degree it was just a matter of luck who got new facilities back in those days: a brand new racecourse at Ruakaka, new stands at New Plymouth, Ellerslie, Omoto, Ashburton, Riccarton, Banks Peninsula. Others, like Timaru and Oamaru, missed out because they didn't really need anything when funds were flush. We have the ironic situation now where tracks like Westport look clean and tidy and Trentham, HB, Riccarton need a fleet of very big bulldozers.

You seem to enjoy going off on a tangent to pick an argument with people Chief. Most of the people on here make very good points and I enjoy their input. People may approach the argument from different angles and may have slightly different points of view, but that is all healthy. There appear to be very few nutters on here, so they should be encouraged and not attacked. We are getting distracted from the original subject here, which is the poor performance over many years of Trentham and the prospects for the track going forward. We are surely at the point where the big decision must be made about whether to pour many millions into redeveloping Trentham, or rebuilding it elsewhere, or even redeveloping another existing track. Messara's answer to NZ's problems was to close down heaps of smaller tracks, and some not so small ones. Most people on here seem more inclined to think the problems rest with some of the poor performing metropolitan tracks.

A bloody sight less, try across the road, you could throw a stone from one to the other.