the galah

Wins one week sitting parked all way, then tonight goes back to normal tactics of looking for a pocket on fence. Drove the stablemate exactly the same in earlier race. That's why punting seems like a mugs game sometimes, at least until you back the next winner that is.

That's not the point I was making, it has nothing to do with whether the horse should have been relegated.. If you watch the race you will see what I mean. No mention of J dickies drive at all in the stipes report. Knocking a horse over,causing interference to multiple runners is covered in the rules relating to driving standards ,

With 900m to go The Player barges its way out,making heavy contact with the horse outside it,causing interference which resulted in several runners being checked. Yet The Players driver does not even get a mention in the stipes report. How did they miss that,or would it have been different if the drivers were reversed?.

There we go. so that's where you've been coming from all along

They are probably just not rushing to judgment, so to speak, and are coming up with a measured response and strategy after digesting all the relevant information. That seems to be the way they have operated in the past, so a bit early to criticize.

If there has been a change,then surely they should put out a press release to that effect. A bit slack if they haven"t . As I have stated earlier, the main issue in my view is to exclude them from race driving to retain the confidence of the betting public . I can't see any real issue with driving at workouts or trials, unless further evidence comes to hand re the manner of the race fixing. As to the harness awards. Those involved should have attended. They can't just sit in a corner and feel sorry for themselves.They have no choice but to face up to the current situation they find themselves in,knowing future history will ultimately show they will be judged more on how they behave in the present and the future, than they will be on past possible mistakes.

Crooks a bit tough.He could have moved sooner but doubt result much different if he had improved parked. When those races end up in indian file they really struggle to win if back and coming wide don't they. I thought it looked sore anyway,paced rougher than normal in patches. Nowornever in form.

two lines this time, a few more words than normal. The scale of personal drug use was above my expectations. I'll leave it at that.

Only the police would know what further evidence their ongoing investigation is turning up. Not for me to second guess where their 18 moth investigation will go.

Comparing peoples perception of the polices standards for laying charges to believing in free speech,but. A rather long bow to draw there. You seem to argue that the public view court charges as far more significant than what actually happens in harness racing. Can't argue with that. So you agree with me I suppose,as that's what I have been saying. People not being aware of what goes on in harness racing.There have been multiple front page stories in the Christchurch papers and coverage on mainstream news,so I think the general public is aware of the latest harness scandal.Not sure why you say they aren't interested. Coming up with ways of protecting harness racings reputation. Well that's not my job but I would have to say where have you been? I have posted multiple times in the past on that subject. Still I understand you would not remember that as well as I do. You say the horse has bolted. Well ive always argued the stable door was open for all to see. I have multiple times,yes,said the police should be involved in gathering evidence on some of the matters I had concerns with. Police,customs etc. The thing is because so many in the industry thought that harness racing live in a tiny(almost embryonic) canvas ,your words,they never saw this coming. Even I am surprised at the scale of it all.

By the way basil, i do realise there is a difference between perception and reality, however peoples perception in their minds is the reality, rightly or wrongly.

For you I will make it clearer what I am saying. Innocent until proven guilty. -Yes I don't argue the presumption of guilt. What I state is there is a widely held perception that there may be evidence of guilt in these cases. Why? Because people believe that police lay criminal charges on the basis,they(the police )believe they have the evidence to support the laying of said charges. You state you believe only a tiny % of the population know anything about the current cases. I disagree. Futhermore, punters are also aware. How does banning protect harness racings reputation? It sends the message that you are not betting on future races ,in which the key participants have charges pending in the courts for race fixing and drug use. . As simple as that. Surely you can see that. If the ban is continued will those involved be unfairly penalized. Possibly, that will ultimately be decided by the evidence produced in the courts and by the riu. If they are found completely innocent then they could they seek compensation. Of course the opposite could apply if the charges are proven.It would be just as fair for punters to sue those involved, if they suffered loses as a result of a crime. Its a simple big picture thing. The publics perception of the integrity of Harness racing taking greater preference over those who have charges pending which undermine the integrity of harness racing. My comment there is my personal views. For example I used to bet on nz dogs. When the live baiting issue with all there witnesses had no consequences, I gave up betting on the nz dogs and doubt I ever will again.

Presumption of innocence fair enough, but If you think having those charged with race fixing reinstated pending the completion of their court cases is not going to have negative effects on many participants view of harness racing,, negative press and negative punter confidence and reactions, well your an optimist, not a realist. I can just imagine it now . Preview of the nz cup on mainstream media referring to a third of the field being driven by those currently under a cloud for race fixing and supply of b class drugs. In fact every punter in the local pub will refer to any questionable drive as it being a fixed race. Imagine that being repeated thousands of times around the country. Not a good look. As to the drug offences, well did they not disqualify Robb and Kennett for failing to supply samples for drug testing. Somehow I think being charged with supplying b class drugs in the court is actually far more serious than that. Like it or not,HRNZ, are very much under the microscope here. Not just the RIU. HRNZ actions here will dictate forever how many will view how honest HRNZ want the sport to be. If they are weak now, the perception of harness racing will forever be tarnished. You talk about own goals. By the way,has racing stopped or diminished in the last few weeks. The cold reality for those involved is No.

I think Mr Rennell has been a good ambassador and loyal servant of Harness racing. I have never met him personally, but whenever I have seen him on tv or heard him on the radio I have thought he always sounded like a man with personal integrity. It is unfortunate he is leaving soon as he has the experience to help guide the sport through the stormy waters ahead. I'm sure his hard work has been taken for granted by many within the sport. With so many different personalities and so many interest groups it must be hard to lead an industry which is often divided. He must be extremely disappointed with the actions of those ,which during his tenure, have brought the sport into disrepute in the publics eyes, while at the same time recognizing there is a history of unfortunate practices which no man on his own will change. I think decisions, judgment calls he has made have always been for the right reasons, irrespective of how they are perceived or how people have reacted to them. Blaming him for others failure would be very unfair. My only negative would be he sometimes came across as too nice to people who did not deserve it. I hope he has a happy and long retirement.

No one is defending the possible race fixing,but some have clearly minimized the drug use,supply aspect. What I believe arsenic is getting at is the level of indignation expressed by many that the alleged corruption was even investigated. That is the overwhelming feeling I get when reading this and the other site. The apparent rage towards the riu and the police is there for all to see in so many comments. I can understand the greyhound folks,they are consistent. They believe certain matters and practices have not been investigated properly. But they are complaining,and always have,that the RIU should be more proactive. Now compare that to the harness racing. Its plain to see on this and the other website and on sites like harnesslink,this scandal has been an opportunity for every man and his dog to put the boot into the RIU,. And why,because they saw possible corruption on a scale they knew they did not have the resources to properly investigate, and passed it onto the police. Its utterly ridiculous. I don't buy this vile and hatred of the RIU existed prior to the current case. Now you get sites like harnesslink making personal attacks on the riu and harness racing leaders all to do with the current situation,settling on scores. Its a clear orchestrated campaign. And for all the wrong reasons. Im with arsenic on this one,Its extremely disappointing to see .

Looking back at what I wrote it does appear It could be inferred I said that. Thanks for pointing that out. It seems I somehow dropped the words' by the riu in the past. Will obviously have to re read what I write before posting. Sorry about that.

The comments I quoted were made by Stephen hale in response to the article about operation inca. They are on that website, underneath the article..It illustrated how he felt about the riu. He obviously,rightly or wrongly, does not like the RIU. Maybe it relates to the cobalt charge he had?? He draws a connection, the riu, with his and the current cases. I commented on his comments.

There I was,just saying what people I spoke to said about the past dishonesty,and how it was obvious that influenced the way they perceived the current cases. In other words,we'll wait and see but nothing surprises them. I just don't make it up. I see no point in telling people what they want to hear. All the jibes about the police and the RIU. One thing I've learnt in life is people will react most when they feel threatened. Instead of arguing the merits of a case they make it personal, and undermine the perceived opposition on a personal basis ,not based on actual merit... Its just a defence mechanism I suppose.

Previously I had a negative experience so will stick to The galah. If you knew me you would know anything I say on here I would repeat in person. Never been called a coward before,kind of amusing in a way. Calling me a keyboard warrior with ulterior motives. Can you enlighten me as to what they may be. Attacking mr curtins views. I'm consistent, I don't agree with him,as per normal. Instead of making it personal,i doesn't worry me, how about you stick to what I said. Of course i'm guessing the reason you don't is because your argument is driven by emotion,not reality.. Have a good day and don't let people with views like me get you down.

I note you highlighted "not one has any sympathy for those involve" I guess your comments refer to each of the 6 people I spoke to and of course myself. Of course that is going to upset those involved and anyone who supports them. Harness racing is a tight nit group who are very loyal to each other and will go into battle for each other. Good things.. However, attacking everyone who says anything other than their view on things is a little narrow minded and out of touch. In my post I did quote a licenceholder trying to unite everyone in the fight against the riu and their bullying, apparently not just because of recent events, which I thought were handled by the police, but also for taking away their incomes by handing out excessive fines. Hows that going to get any sympathy. Heres just a hand ful of comments I got from the people who spoke to me about this topic and who make you sick. "I remember the time up at nelson when .. was having talking to us while we had a beer, he showed us his treble ticket and he didn't have his drive,a hot favourite in the last . the first 2 legs had paid well and sure enough he got the treble." This comment related to about 30 years ago. This was at the time when many of the leading drivers were involved. Then there was the bloke who at the time had several horses in work turned up at the races,went and saw his trainer who informed him they weren't trying to win tonight as it was... turn. The said owner had already punted his own horse. That was about 20 years ago. Then there was the bloke who this week turned down a share in a horse. He was soured by the recent events. I once worked for a trainer who spoke about punting one of his horses,a hot favourite, only to see it pulled back on the fence,and never get a run. He told the story of how he was investigated, and how the police apparently tapped phones,but nothing ever came of it. That was about 30 years ago also. Personally I once spoke to a trainer,who told me he had been investigated to do with a pick 6. Apparently some of the drivers wives in the last leg had struck a big pick 6,and the drives in the last were very questionable. Ironically the driver of the winner was investigated but found to have no knowledge of the help he received. That was about 15 years ago. Work it out tea baggins ,the people today are paying the price for previous indiscretions of those within the industry who went before them. This day was always coming, it was just a matter of when. I do feel sorry for them on a personal level,I'm sure everyone does,they will be respected in a lot of ways ,whatever the outcome. The old saying of its not the hurdles in life that define you,its how you get over them that will.

I just flicked on to harnesslink and see a comment from a person supporting mr curtins article who says he has been charged.. Part of the comment is"but someone has to stand up and make an attempt to stop this form of bullying (referring to the riu) in the industry by those on highly inflated salaries, that aren't answerable to anyone by the looks of things. Come on harness racing people get behind your peers and make a change" Are some of those involved really that out of touch with reality that they think there is sympathy for their actions. There may have been sympathy for their predicament and for the stress they and their families may be under,but this lack of any willingness to even contemplate addressing the reasons for why they are in this predicament, well it truly is stunning. Everyone seems to be looking to blame anyone but themselves. I would have spoken to 6 people in the last week,some owners of horses trained in canterbury and the others punters, who,without prompting, have raised the subject currently in the news. Not one has any sympathy for those involved. Industry leaders truly have major issues here. If licenceholders won"t get behind the integrity message,and back their paid leaders,well the industry really is up the creek without a paddle. You would think the need for integrity goes without saying.,but not in harness racing by the looks of it. I don"t envy their jobs. Re reading that harnesslink story, In my opinion Curtin truly is divisive. Hes out of touch. I've always viewed his articles that way,so I guess i'm not surprised. There is clearly a vocal campaign going on her to undermine those in authority,and I also believe it is going to backfire.,.It already is.

A lot to unpack in Mr curtins article. He makes some very good points,however appears to be using the current scandal to score points against old foes. Mr curtin,Isn't it blatantly obvious why the police and riu have kept this matter under wraps. Even blind freddy could work out that months of work uncovering possible corruption,and that is what it is,would have been completely undermined by informing partisan groups like hrnz,with the alleged perpetrators possibly being tipped off. That's exactly what happened in the blue magic scandal prior to the raids,so come on mr curtin, don"t see it from one side like you always do. Curtin seems to point to some conspiracy linking this to the messara report. Yet the alleged race fixing inquiry started long before any messara report was even in its infancy. Its just coincidence. My overall take of mr curtins article is he attempts to minimize the actions of the industry licenceholders who are responsible for this scandal. Its a deliberate ploy. Hes a knowledgable man with a lot to offer on some issues,but as far as integrity issues,well maybe one day he might just wake up and realise that it is those with attitudes like him,that have cultivated and minimized the behavior that has led to the latest scandal.

I called him mature and honest. Not sure what way you took it. I realise just the mention of the name Dunn gets you all lathered up with excitement though.

I agree that may be their thinking. Does anyone on here really think those refusing to tip will get caught up in some police sting if they tip the wrong horse,as given as your first reason. Simple petulance. I get it .Lets punish the betting public,those who help put bread on the table and don't believe everyone is dishonest. These reasons are very stupid,foolish and childish. What about Robert Dunn giving an interview on trackside the other night giving an honest assessment of his stables charges. What do you think about that. Do you think the public distrust him. Obviously not and nor does he. What about ricky may giving his views this morning. They are behaving the way mature honest harness racing participants should behave,not like those many on here seem to support.

Take it whatever way you want,read into it whatever you want. The definition of moronic is very stupid,foolish. Its a total over reaction by those living in a bubble.