the galah

Before we all get carried away I think we may need to read the stipes report and jca decision. Its the jca decision who makes these decisions based on the evidence presented. It is they who may well be incompetent here. As an aside. Was that not one of the most dangerous pieces of driving seen for a long time,showing a total lack of regard for the safety of other drivers and horses. If such driving is not punished then it sets a shocking precedent. Will have to wait and see the stipes report.

I was talking to someone last week who was at the recent meetings. He told me if you want to have a bet at forbury,you do it at a caravan outside as there is only one window in the public grandstand . Apparently the restaurant food in the public area is not great, in his opinion. Sounded like a very average experience which discourages attendance.

While the fields may not be as strong at Palmerston north,that doresn't matter.. It puts horses with similar ability against each other as they try to do anywhere and the racing is just as competitive as elsewhere.. I too wonder how they can offer such good stakes based on their turnovers,maybe they have good cash reserves. The only thing that is a little disappointing is they only seem to get 8 races and if your a non win trot horse you have to race against multiple race winners. A win at Palmerston north is just as deserving for those who achieve it,as a win anywhere else, and shouldn't be classed as anything less.

If I start off by saying I agree this is only part of the puzzle as to why horses are sold overseas,but it is an important part at the top end. The point I make is the very same horses that the all stars get to run faster,would not be as fast if trained other top trainers. I have given the reasons why I think that on another thread. The problem is they are not only better,it is they are much better. They just run as fast as necessary to win. You must have noticed that when you watch the age group races or races like the nz cup,in fact any race they are in, run in fast time- Just watch the last 400m of any of those races and you will see only all star horses going forward and the others all tired going back. How do you think that effects a horses body and mind to try your guts out and you run a creditable 5th in record time. It buggers them pure and simple. Their racing longevity is shortened,their owners and trainers see it and realise selling is the best option. If they do decide to back up and give them another run in the same week they know they probably have a tired horse while the all stars will still be as fresh as a daisy after their record runs. Its all about the times they run and the long term effects on the horse. Best to sell before your valuable asset is too buggered and devalued. Remember that story before the jewels about brent mangos"s major aussie owner who had 3 in the jewels. He said he was scaling back the horses he had trained here bigtime and having them sent to Australia because,like it or not,the all stars are simply too dominant to justify having his horses trained here.

Many reasons. They are able to tap into many resources which make their horses run faster. No doubt they have the best facilities,tracks,staff,massagers,feeding routines,vets,etc,etc. Then factor in the drivers. They have top drivers who only ever drive against the opposition.not against each other. But those factors are not all that is needed to achieve their dominance.As I have stated before, I believe the stable are ahead of the game when it comes to the use of performance enhancers . I believe that is an integral part of their success. I do not envy them. I am not an all star hater. I have no grudge to bear,i often back them. There is a lot to admire and aspire to in the all stars. I think the current handicapping system actually has helped the perception of the all stars. You don't get people complaining about having to run against the all star 8 win c1 horses like border control anymore,with their 1 win horse. That's what I believe. Take it or leave it.

Bit tough hunter. I think Nathan purdon drives ok.He drives about the same as his father used to at the same stage,and he turned out ok.

I think some trainers do have similar skills to match purdon and rasmussen. I think they are the best, however I think their level of success compared with other top trainers is not an accurate reflection of any difference in ability or knowledge..

I thought the same when I first saw it. To be honest after reviewing the film I think mr hope was a bit lucky not to get some of the blame. Having said that I do like Ben hopes driving. He seems to know the form, drives intelligently and seems a good judge of pace.

Actually completely disagree. The reason the above horses are trained at the all stars is in my opinion pretty obvious. They perform much better from that stable than any other stable in the south island. Plain and simple. Just look at the results. its not hard to work out. Also disagree with a lot of your above statement as well. Look at the fields. Horses in the 75 to 85 rating you quote have to run against the all stars horses. Take cup day. Hail Christian and henry Hubert are rated in the range you quote and who did they run against and get dominated by. The all stars. What happens then. They moan that they cant go back and run in races where they get penalty free wins,and eventually end up sold or sent overseas.. Do you really want to return to a system where a 1 win horse will be penalized for winning a race,while the 6 win,4 win and 3 win 3 year olds in the same race would get no penalty. That's what used to happen. How was that fair. We had a 1 win horse run in races like that. Have the field sizes increased under the new handicapping system?? no system will please everyone,you just have to go with what is best for the industry as a whole. I think its a no brainer in stating the all star domination is a major factor for why some of the better horses are sold. Personally It doesn't effect or worry me.

Just proof of what brodie has said. One stables dominance is having negative consequences on harness racing,mostly at the top end. Trainers realise they are uncompetitve, they either sell or start taking steps which sees them sometimes ending up in court.Its a self perpetuating problem. That's just the way it is. Look at the facts.

I guess because Weaver turned his horses head in,it did not help his cause, That was only just before his horses back legs were hit by the sulky wheel of the other horse. It did look like he was going to get a bump before he did that. I had a small place bet on ultimate desire and thought it may have run 3rd,bit hard to tell. Interestingly that was the only race where the winner came from further back than lead ,trail and one of parked. Exactly the same pattern as last week. And that's all because the races have just been sprints up the straight.

While the comments maybe distasteful and unnecessary on this thread,, those who support this stable need to accept the mud being thrown, has been provided by those who it is being thrown at .I think some of your frustration is misdirected, but I guess when you know someone its sometimes hard not to have a bias. The 1000 wins by John Dunn is an outstanding achievement. He seems a hard working,very likeable and talented man who should be proud of this aspect of his record.

Had they dunn their job that day then those involved may never have thought they would continue to get away with it,and there may never have been a need for operation inca.

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I keep backing Jaffa kitten,but really why did he got pocketed with 350m to go when he only had to pull out to win. Unreal this punting some times,just hard to work out the thinking of some drivers sometimes..

Stipes do not want to upset such high profile people and do not bet. Your right of course,they do look rather inept now when it comes to that race. I think the south island ones have upped their game since as a result

If that was the case then there would have been some very disillusioned and angry large punters after they watched that race. They must have been questioning whether they were better off not punting on the trots. Remember what the trackside presenter said who had labelled it as his bet of the day.... The drive was unbelievable, simply unbelievable. I guess you cant say well it looked like he did everything to not run anywhere on trackside,even if it looks obvious. .

Johnny white, Where have you been?

The proven race fixing in Australia did not involve large pools. Besides if you look at say the johnny white race there were dividends of $6553 quaddie,$4501 first 4 ,a $890 treble and place 6 $410.. If you knew the hot favourite was not trying then you could have made plenty.

Surely a more accurate comment is the wider this goes the less credible those involved appear. No protected species when it comes to the police

This has to have been expected. You only have to watch north island racing to see consistent team driving. I have been critical of the blinkered view of north island stipes, perhaps they will now start being more pro active.

Reading the latest news it refers to one of the charges relates to a substance being given to enhance performance for a certain stable. Have the riu and hrnz taken steps to do retrospective testing for this substance on all listed and group races in the last 18 months in which that stable earnt stake money. . Surely if either was seriously interested in integrity those steps must be taken immediately.

so operation inca is now revealing certain practices of industry participants which many new existed,but until now had been able to be hidden. No one should be surprised about the latest developments. it just is confirmation of what so many think, but of course those who have expressed those thoughts have always been discredited by those who benefit from said actions.

The brodster really has gone out on a limb. That limb is getting further off the ground.

Its just more a reflection on how negative the driving in many of the races are now days. Watching the races today you would think it pretty obvious that you had to be handy and close to the rail. Every winner has come from the lead or trail position, due to the fast lane closer to the fence and lack of speed in the races. The only exception was a g s whitesocks,and that was only due to forgotten highway looking gone from the start of the race.