the galah

Well,after last week i have to be fair and acknowledge what a clever and well executed drive by mr cox to win the group 2 with on alta meteor tonight. Sometimes even clever drives don't always get the luck they deserve,but tonight there was no stopping mr cox. On his day,mr cox can match it with the best. Well done that man.

Bored,so i thought why not have a look at what phil holden has done previously,to get an idea of what hes like. So i have had a look at media interviews and press releases he has done from previous roles. One thing i will say,is he sure can waffle on. Hes obviously had some high power jobs as leaders of sporting organisations,but he reminds me of a politicain who will say all the right things without ever giving a clear answer,even to a yes and no type question. He loves words like journey,courageous. Places a lot of emphasis on ensuring he comes across as caring and sensitive and that organisations he leads prioritise emotional,spiritual and physical wellbeing and so on.. Certainly loves greeting in maori,although i have to admit again i didn't understand what he had said at the start of one interview,just that i guess it was a greeting of some sort at the start. In one interview he definitely thrashed the maori interviewer when it came to using the most maori words. So,the question is,will having someone who can waffle with the best of them, help the harness sport. If so,how? He reminds me of one of those government department bosses who is a nice guy and gets on with everyone,but do they actually improve anything. My guess is he will create the illusion of progress through words.But at the end of the day,harness racing needs a doer,not just a good talker.can he do both? i think the juries out on that question.

The chair of hrnz gave his march update on the hrnz website recently. Chair i guess means chairman,although phil holden probably prefers chairperson. He started his march update with kia ora.fair enough, I think we all know what that means. But he ended his update with a one liner "nga mihi mahana",then signed his name under that. So what did he say . I'm not sure, but his use of the maori language i guess is a clear sign of the imprtance he places on being poltically correct,inclusive and mutliculturally sensitive..why else use it? But who is it he is addressing. Because i'm pretty sure most of the people within harness racing have no idea what he said,nor care whether he can show off his maori language in harness racing. I would like to bet that less than 1% of people within harness racing could speak or write a sentence of more than 6 words in maori. And i'm also pretty sure that most who read that thought to themselves,does this man have any idea what people think when they read that. You know,on this site,not that long ago i started a topic which ,summarised said words to the effect. Next time your at the harness races,take a look around you and ask yourself ,who are the participants in nz harness racing. Is it diverse racially,ethnically. Its not because harness racing choses not to be diverse,as people in the sport happily welcome anyone who wants to participate. Its just the way it is. When was the last time you heard anyone,i mean anyone ever,say we need to increase the use of the maori language. You haven't,because no one within harness racing cares about that. So what is phil holden trying to prove or achieve by using words next to no one will understand.

I must be watching a different station than everyone else. I need glasses to read bit of a yarn when seated in front of the computer unless i increase the size of the letters,but without glasses,i can see the dividends as plain as on trackside from the far wall in my bedroom,with the tv in far corner. Perhaps everyone you've polled chief is long sighted. Tell them to lean back in the lazyboy instead of leaning forward. Remember,my wife likes it as well so thats 2 for the new graphics. She likes the colours of the graphics that much that she wants me to paint the kitchen those colours. I've told her,honey,we rent this house.

yes i get that.. But i was meaning,well even if they did that,given you suggested it was similar to something sky racing australia was doing,then doesn't it make sense that sky racing,would have done some research before they had introduced it and that sky racing would be aware of customer feedback. I still think a global giant like entain,who saw its revenue increase to 4.78 billion pounds last year,would have a research and marketing department for this type of thing.

yes good point ranga,that would be a factor,although looking at the patterns of money invested in tabcorp pools,the timeslots and sky racing exposure look to be the main factors.Thats just from my observations. I remember a couple of weeks ago the last race on the first day at manawatu,had the highest equal turnover.It was a 7 horse race with not much form and low graded horses.I don't know what the pool was on the nz tab but i don't think it would have been as high as tabcorp. The aussies seem to be happy to invest as long as theres 7 or 8 running in nz and its there on their tv screen. I suppose thats partly because they are used to those field sizes in aussie.

I just mentioned that because you mentioned it earlier Its funny you think the pictures are a lot hazier,as my wife and i have been saying they look much clearer.. Agree its good to debate these things as we watch enough of it to have informed opinions whatever they may be.

when entain delivered their financial results for their global business last month, in it the deputy ceo said about nz,"the platform migration from the old,sort of state run nz tab business onto the australian platform is due in the 2nd quarter. So thats a nice catalyst and a real focus." so that sounds like what you refer to may be coming soon? I think entain are making some really good changes myself,the only thing i find disappointing so far is the australian betting pools on nz harness are bigger with TABCORP. Its just a shame they can't commingle with them as well or do something about taking steps to do so.

Well i like them and my wife likes them Personally i think its a big improvement,but i realise its a personal thing. I think you will come to like it in time,maybe,although not the no place dividend bit.. the wife just flicked it on to have another look at what may be bothering people,and there was a split screen of two meetings due to a false start. A much better split screen than i've seen before. As to the research,i'm sure entain being such a huge global wagering giant would have done market research about this type of thing or seen the market research and viewer feedback from the entity providing the coverage. And you must give credit to entain for getting racing coverage on freeview.thats got to be a good thing. But were you complaining when they had the same two win dividends up before todays changes.And they have had the speed the greyhounds run at for a while now.Had you watched the dogs recently from dunedoo or goondiwindi ,you would have seen that.

so to me that means i'm right,not wrong like you say. Or are you saying the similar graphics used on the sky aussie racing channels were put in place with no market research? That wouldn't be the case surely.

Why?

But as i have pointed out many times,if you look at the tote pools held by the likes of tabcorp,your wrong when you say more quality horses means higher turnover. I've given the figures many times and its pretty clear cut that turnover generated is not connected to quality,its all about exposure and timeslots. So in reality no one sector of the industry is more valuable than the other when it comes to generating turnover. I've given so many examples recently. The only way,in my opinion,to combine quality with higher turnover from australia would be to run the high quality races in the high exposure timeslots.

reminds me of that joan rivers quote. She said...the other day i noticed a peeping tom looking through my window. as i undressed the peeper pulled the blinds.... or something like that.

I'm guessing entain or sky or whoever ,who are behind the new graphics would have spent a bit of money,done their research and would have taken feedback from pilot audiences of punters before they made the changes.thats my guess. They won't be like the nz tab were,when they came up with the disastrous new webiste a few years ago.

Was timaru a good track to run a wednesday meeting at this time a year? The reason i ask that is because i would have thought the idea of these wednesday meetings is to maximise turnover,especially the extra turnover that they get when races are held in time slots where people in australia have just finished work. Same does apply in nz as well,but the betting turnovers in australia can be significantly different depending on what time they are run. So wouldn't it make more sense to run them at addington where they can run at the best time slots given they can turn the lights on if necessary. A wednesday meeting at timaru makes morse sense when the daylight hours are longer and they can run a twilight meeting. thats my thoughts anyway.

personally i like the changes and the colours. Much easier on the eye. Also entain to be congragulated for making trackside available on freeview. Hopefully that means if we go to a motel then we will be able to watch trackside now. That was always a big problem previously. I guess the..no place fixed odds anymore..comes under "the dividends displayed reflecting the popularity of products" that entain referred to in their press release.They hadn't been showing the tote place odds for a year or two anyway. I can see why, if you like to place bet, you could be a little frustrated,but if your betting you would see them at the terminal you were using to put a bet on. Not showing the place dividends on ff probably more of a drawback if you were on course. I suppose they will have to provide tv screens with them on for on course patrons. If you look at any of the betting pools,the win pools generally are 3-5x more win than is in the place pools. Not quite so in nz,but certainly with australia pools. Overall i think the changes made are good.

If we were 3 horses,we would stubbornly be fighting it out to the very finish. I will always think that his drive was one of the dumbest tactically i've ever seen and another person i spoke to just after the race said exactly the same. My thinking was no one could possibly see what i thought was so dumb as actually being clever,well that hasn't been the case on here which was why i went into my anaysis of why that was. Thats reminds me of one of my most favorite tv clips ever . It was from faulty towers when basil was told to take it easy,and how he reacted.I would put the clip up but it don't know how,but you would probably remember it anyway.That one and the one where he gave the car a thrashing with a stick.

Why can't you,blackie or counter punch just look at the majestic mans record that i have referred you too? . Again,if you want proof of what i've been saying,just look at majestic mans record in the last 5 years. He hasn't been able to win at all at 2600m or beyond. The furtherest he had been able to win in 5 years was one lower stake race in australia at 2400m. In new zealand ,do you know how many races he has won beyond 2000m in the last 5 years? One.And that was a 2200 5 horse race at cambridge where he went to the front and went slow and ran a 2.00.4 mile rate. Now. What did johhny cox say to the stipes. "he wanted to ensure there was a strong tempo throughout,which would suit his runner". Those of you who have said cox's tactics of parking out muscle mountain and trying to outstay his rivals,well put bluntly,i think you simply come across as being the devils advocate. Your stance can't be based on any logic.I simply don't believe you are that poor a judges of form and the horses records. So why are you devils advocate on this topic. Again,my guess is you believe that commenting on a higher profile participants drive in a negative way is not what should happen,even on here a social platform like this where lots of subjects are discussed.. So what happens , you just ignore what so obviously counters what you are saying.The cause is more important than the facts. And if i was to analyse counter punch i suppose his comments were partly motivated because he has a relation who works with cox,and no doubt thinks highly of him,so just looking after a mate type thing.In each case i think the motives are well intentioned but don't stand scrutiny. And each of you know that. Whether you agree with what i just said,whatever.

"Had it been him then this entire topic wouldn't be debated" you say. So thats your answer to the Fact it was a stablemate..Just visualise in my mind that it was someone else. There you go,now i've done that,i can stop bagging cox.Got it. Thanks counter punch. And you also seem happy to say cox's drive made perfect sense from the point he decided to take a trail,because he had burnt hard in the first 400m. Sorry,but the race was run over 2600m and my posts have clearly also been about his tactics used in the first 400m. My comments relate to what happened,not what if's. You know,i've come to the conclusion that even stating the blatantly obvious is deemed a no go area by some these days. All it does is confirm my long held opinion. That people within harness racing operate, live and think within their own bubble and when it comes to higher profile personalitites that people like,well critcism of them is a no go area.Even commenting about someones drive is deemed unneccsary because feelings may be hurt.It even permeates the media.I'm not saying i can't see a little merit in that approach,i'm just saying i find its just not me. I know that,always have because i've seen it over so many years now. On one hand i admire the loyalty,on the other i think it leads to situations where, when something big happens which generates negative publicity for the industry,people involved are caught by surprise and the flow on effects of that, is it can have many unnecessary and alarming consequences on people minds.If you don't know what i mean,just think about it,i can name many many examples.It should never come to that ,but it does and its a consequence of the the mindset created by being in the bubble i talk about. Anyway,i don't live in the bubble. I think harness racing is full of good people and anyone who has success earns it as it doesn't come easy.I think people like you,counter punch also do a top job and put your heart and soul into promoting the sport.But i also believe you have the bubble type of thinking as well.I follow harness racing because of the horses,but the people within harness racing are really good people. But i've been at the point for a wee while now where i think people should be able to discuss topics involving personalities,so i do. Bit of a yarn is where i do it. I've had a good day,so i haven't written this to let of steam,but i do find when i discuss topics like this i scratch my head..

If you look at the stridemaster times and take the time majestic man ran overall,1.93.11 seconds and subtract what he ran his last 2200 in,165.84 then you get what he ran his first 400m in. So according to stridemaster Majestic man ran a 27.27 first quarter at the start of a 2600 race. He hasn't won a race 2600m or further for over 5 years. Hes run a lot of good placing over that distance in the last 5 years but you only have to look at his record to see why hes regarded as best over short distances. Also wasn't it last year he was stood down for a month in australia after he bled. The data backs up what i say in my opinion. Johnny cox in the stipes report said he was trying to outstay muscle mountain. Thats why i say his tactics defied logic in my opinion.

Fair enough. i will have to agree to disagree with you and blackie. Yes i do have great repect for muscle mountain and yes i do think ben hope always drives him very well,even if it is easier to overcome a tougher run because hes that good.He was a red hot favorite because punters view him in that light.I had thought everyone does. Like i said earlier,i put $5 a place on majestic man. personally i gave up hope of him running top 3 when he burnt for a 2nd time to hold out muscle mountain. Muscle Mountain is a great horse. Sundees son and him are a couple of the best in the last couple of decades. Every time he goes to the races hes there to win and is driven accordingly. Rival drivers and trainers respect Muscle mountains ability and know he won't be lining up unless hes ready to win. That respect was gained by many outstanding previous performances. It doesn't matter what the sport,whether it be harness racing,rugby,league,cricket or whatever. When you don't treat any very high quality opponent with the respect they have earned,then you do so to your own detriment. personally i think it was a good thing for mr cox that muscle mountain won. Because had he say got beaten by a nose by love n the port and say majestic man had faded to 5th ,then everyone would be talking about how they sacrificed majestic man,just so they could beat muscle mountain. A result like that would not have been a good look for harness racing. It didn't happen, because what i have said is true,muscle mountain is such a talented horse and ben hope always had faith in plan b working. But hey,Mr cox drove 2 winners yesterday and thats a real achievement as its not easy to do on a premier days racing, when you mainly drive for several different smaller stables.

What he achieved was the trail behind his stablemate instead of muscle mountain .Was that the plan? Or did he think muscle mountain wasn't good enough to work and win. Was that the plan? was he trying to outstay muscle mountain with the horse phil williamson has said many times is best as a sprinter. was that the plan? can't be those,because all of the above plans are flawed based on past performances by the horses concerned. So when you say.."good on him for having a crack",what was it he was having a crack at? What happens tactically in harness races is subjective,often based on what part of the industry in which people have participated in. Punters are often different from drivers/trainers.Hence we get differing opinions on whats accpetable to say and whats not,based on the different perspectives.Punters tend to be colder and more upfront,just call it as it is with their approach. whereas those who may be family,friends or interact with someone who is the subject of criticism ,well they factor in, that there is a personality, that they may well like involved. i get it. But for me,i just say what i think.I know no one,but if i did,i would still be the same. Thats just me. also I trust my judgments to be accurate although no doubt i don't always get it spot on. But i can tell you the one thing that has always really annoyed me is when i see someone treating the punter for a mug and not driving to obtain the best possible result.I don't bet much at all now ,but i identify with the punter. When i did bet,i could lose big money on a horse and if it was trying,well not to worry,on to the next. But if i was to lose $5 on a horse that i thought wasn't trying or was there to be sacrificed for a stablemate,then i would feel taken for a mug. I think mr cox drove to beat muscle mountain,not to achieve the best result for his drive majestic man.His responsibilty to the punter,well he showed little regard for that in my opinion. Also i would note that we have all seen muscle mountain race against multiple williamson runners in the past,mostly driven by the sons of phil williamson or by r may. And every time we have,we have seen each driver go out there and drive in a way that is to achieve the best result for the horse they drove.No sacrificing one stablemate for anothers benefit. Just as it should be. The thing about harness racing is there is always tomorrow. But our perception of what may happen tomorrow is based on what may have happened today or yesterday.

Can't agree with you gammalite. Where i disagree is when you say Johnny cox was there to make life hard for his main rival,muscle mountain. Johnny cox was not there for that reason. He was there to drive his horse in a way that achieved the best possible placing. obviously muscle mountain was the best horse to trail to achieve the best possible placing. He made his own horse, majestic man sprint for an extra 150m,only to drop in the trail behind a horse not as good as muscle mountan. so he expended more energy for the same position anyway.Thats why his drive was so poor. Pretty sure majestic man runs second,not fourth with a more thinking drive.And the horse would have had a less strenuous run going into its fututre engagements. So there were many negative results to his drive. Probably the worst factor was,what people watching would be thinking. Many would be thinking ,look at that fella,happy to sacrifice his own chance for the benefit of his stablemate.Thats what i and many others thought.That doesn't install confidence in the integrity side of things as regards each horse being driven on its merits. If hes going to do that for a stable which he hardly drives for,whats he going to do if driving for the telfer stable.Like it or not,that will be a consequence of yesterdays drive.Just stating a fact as far as that goes.

My assumption just makes sense to me. the more in a tote pool,the less larger amounts bet effect the prices.So obviously your able to make better judgment calls as to the" value" you refer to, as in the smaller tote pools ,your reducing your own value simply by investing. Also i think its just logic,that the tote pools are a reflection of the coverage and punter interest which follows, in any given race. So logically,the more exposure,the more punter investment not just on the tote,but the final field as well.. As to dividends. One thing which has stood out to me when observing the TABCORP NSW pools on nz harness. If you get a carry forward(jackpot) in the exotic bets from one race to the next,then there follows significant increased aussie punter interest in the jackpoting pools. Had nz harness pools been commingled with tabcorp, it would be realistic to believe that if it was at a meeting getting good sky exposure due to being run at the right time slot,if say a trifecta,first 4 or even exactas jackpots for a couple of races then you could see interst in the tens of thousands,possibly over a hundred thousand .I say that because it just seems to take a jackpot of $300 on a trifecta or first four polol on a nz race,and you get an extra couple of thousand in the next race.Imagine if ot was jackpoting say $10,000,the interst would be very high. from my observations of the NSW tabcorp pools,The key to pool size has little relevance to the quality of horses running.What is most important is the exposure a race gets on things like aussie sky racing. Thats why i understand what the people from entain are on about when it comes to wanting more harness racing midweek at certain timeslots. Thats because they know they will get more exposure,and that punters investing follows. Only one thing i did notice about the wednesday meetings at addington.In a couple of the high turnover races,the favorites got back and the drivers just followed them around and made no effort to improve. In those couple of races,only blair orange showed any initiatve when the pace slowed.If punter confidence in the product is to be maintained,you neeed drivers at least looking like they are trying.Which of course means the stipes need to be on the ball as well.

. Gammalite answered your question earlier.its 2nd from the top. But heres more clarification for you if you want it.This is how i believe it works. TABCORP own all tabs in australia,except western australia. The KEY is to remember,due to legislative and other reasons,3 seperate betting pools are run by australian tab's.I guess it involves consistency in %'s taken from the pools before returns to the punter. But we only have a commingling agreement with one of those. The one we commingle with is the supertab( or taborps victorian properites ). This pool includes the supertab victoria,western australia and act .We miss out on commingling with the rest of australia. and seemingly,because nsw tabcorp has recently taken over the victorian retail tab licences,in fact we won't be getting much of the victorian betting either.. Midway through last year the NZ Commerce Commision granted permission for ENTAIN to join the agreement with the nztab (racing board) and supertab(victorian tab),part of which meant,those are the providers of the pools we bet into. There is no agreement with the bulk of australia. Supertab and tabcorp nsw pools are not commingled for nz,but are for some racing in hong kong. Thats the whole point i've been making. While NZ racing has gone with ENTAIN,its been a backward step as far as the commingling goes because of recent changes in australia. Its obviously not good for nz harness racing the way it currently works,as it goes without saying that the bigger the nz pools,the more likely you are to get more punter participation. But it isn't happening because we have partnered with the groups who provide the lowest amounts into our nz betting pools.