the galah

The welcome stakes is one of those races where they have bumped the stakes up for the 2 year olds ,throwing more money at them seemingly on the premise that it will encourage more peolpe to breed. it doen't make sense,but seems to be HRNZ's thinking. they have got it totally wrong in my view and so have the likes of the media personalitites who are always hyping up the successful players in one part of the industry as the role models.. You know,everyone seems to accept that there will be a shortage of horses going forward and therefore to retain its market share and keep providing income to the majority of industry participants,there will have to be better use of their number one resource,the horses. So what does HRNZ and the media always elevate and promote and say this is the blueprint for what everyone should be trying to achieve...The likes of the purdon/phelan partnership or the all stars. And what have the likes of those stables consistently said over the years,their focus is on only training the good horses,which is what they obviously are very good at...But there average horse don't last long and don't get to race and there is much less overall use of that valuable resource,the horses. But it shouldn't take einstein to work out that there are far more valuable trainers to the industries viabilty than the aforementioned trainers. Thats not to undermine their achievements which anyone can admire,but its just stating reality. Traiers like michael house,bruce negus,greg and nina hope,mark jones and even the dunns make better use of their use numbers and provide more product and then you have the smaller trainers like robbie holmes,jay abernethy,barry ward,john mcdermott who are doing good things. So if your talking about the reality of who is needed most by the industry,its the latter group of trainers and that is who HRNZ should be focusing on incentivsing to keep doing what they are doing.

trevor grant currently suspended until the 2nd of june. Another one of those penalties thats inconsistent as regards how they have calculated which days are included. Trevor grant got an 8 day suspension . He only drives the one horse. his suspension is calculated to include 8 meetings within 3 weeks.Would george elliott be likely to race 8 times in 3 weeks? in my opinion i think the suspension is ok,just inconsistent . They need to at least treat everyone the same who doesn't drive that often.

I agree with you nowornever that the fields weren't attractive betting wise and i found it hard to get enthusiastic given all the hot favorites who appeared most likely to win and did.they aren't my cup of tea. Only 1 paid more than $2.70 to win. i often think some of those hot favorites start well under the realistic prices,but they seem to win so punters and the bookies seem to know what they are doing. Nowornever obviously one of the early ones to get on george elliot at a reasonable price,but that didn't last long and besides I had thought natives inferno would be the one and put a bit more on when he went away so well the first time in the false start,but he must have known and galloped in the restart.

tonights turnovers down quite a bit with tabcorp from previous weeks. win pool just averaging well under half of what was normal. 2727. i noticed the addington races were due to start mostly 2 minutes after an aussie gallops meeting was due to start,so you would assume the sky racing coverge would have been very limited pre race for addington. There was the one race which had a 5 minute gap lead in and it got 3 times the average win pool for tonight. the average nz tote win pool was just 5810 for the 7 races with the highest pool being the same race that was highest for tabcorp.

interesting how it all connects. as to flying views colours,i could be wrong but my memory was it started out with greenish tartany colours then later changed to a colour a bit like a bright canary yellow. from memory i was there and watched him place in the main sprint at orari behind grey way who won his 50th race that day. i've just looked up his record and i can see he was ridden in some races by lionel dobbs. as you have said,s laming seems to have been his regular rider but other jockeys like danny crozier,gary blair and even ally robinson,kevin morton,jim collett,michael mein,ray hewinson and a c g. sorrenson rode him in the south island.

I have just spent 30 minutes recording the figures from the tabcorp website as relates to the last 5 nz meetings on wednesday to sunday. i can't tell you the nz figures as entain don't have the pools in their results,except on the day of the races. so for tabcorp nsw the highest average win tote pools for the nz trots was 1) wednesday/addington 6104.... 2) thursday /cambridge 6019.... 3)friday/addington 5196.... 4)sunday/ashburton 2209.... 5) saturday/winton 2042 as to trifectas 1)thursday/cambridge 2031....2) wednesday/addington 1774....3)friday/addington 1767....4)saturday/winton 1096 ....sunday/ashburton/722.... so you can see the best performing days on the aussie tabcorp tote for nz harness are the wednesdays and the thursdays. wednesday addington average stakes are amongst the lowest yet perform the best . Its obvious races with greater sky racing exposure and lead in times will get the best turnovers in aussie.. Saturdays and sundays will not get the necessary exposure so perform the worst. the ff pools for tabcorp are not displayed on their website. The nz tab/entain pools are obviously the most important part of the equation,but the aussie pools still significant in the big picture. Really you would think if nz harness is to survive they should be looking at running their meeting at times and on days where they will generate the most turnover. Just common sense. theres different factors that come into play as regards generating turnover in my opinion but best not to complicate the subject too much and thats why i have stuck with just giving the above figures.

Are you including the australian pools totaL I gave last weeks nsw tabcorp figures on another thread. If you combined the wednesday win pools of tabcorp nsw and the entain/nz tab pools,i think you would get something not too far off what you would get for a addington meeting on a friday per race.The exoctic pools are always relatively strong in comparison as well from tabcorp nsw,but the place pools not so. Then compare the combined pools of tabcorp and nztab fro a saturday harness meeting and i'm sure saturdays are a very poor turnover day compared to wednesdays. Then compare the combined sunday pools then you i would guess they will be slightly more,but will that last with all the extra meetings on a sunday now? If they aren't making any money on a canterbury wednesday meeting after paying the stakes,then how could they be making money on a friday addington meeting or a friday auckland meeting? also i would have thought that given the reason tabcorp pools seem to hold up well on a wednesday would be because of the greater exposure those races get on those timeslots,then wouldn't it follow that logically pools on betting agencies like betfair,while not over large,would also see improved turnovers. so are you taking the nz figures in isolation or are you including the total pools of all the betting agencies that HRNZ get a cut of. Also have you factored in that there may have been an initial drop in pool sizes at the time the new website started. Its hard to tell exactly the significance of that and whether it was just a temporary thing,but you would have to factor in how the pools on other days of the week are comparing due to that factor. so are you looking at just part of the picture and not the whole picture, as the whole picture which includes turnovers/stakes paid/everything is what counts?

72 horses running tomorrow in the 7 races,so while some fields not as full as normal,still not too bad overall. They are run in timeslots where they can generate turnover and you would think they should run at a profit. More income for a broad cross section of industry trainers /drivers and owners and gives the trainers more options to choose where best to place their horses. I think these wednesday meetings in canterbury are good.

you got it right first time walt. lionel pratt was lionel dobbs grandfather . Not sure whether he was given his christain name after his grandfather? pretty sure they train and live just down the road from the orari racecourse and thats where lionel pratt trained from near the end of his career i'm pretty sure flying view was trained at orari. like you say,i also remember him settling back and having a big finish. i once worked with lionels(dobbs) late brother as well. He was a great guy,very well respected and loved his racing as well.

i believe flying view was trained by his grandfather. I remember lionel dobbs used to lead it around at the races a lot and guess he would have also ridden it in work although he would have been a lot younger then,like us all. that was quite a few years ago now. It was a grey from memory and did it run 2nd in a telegraph at trentham? i seem to remember its racing colours were yellow as well and may have raced against the likes of grey way a few times. those were the days

i just watched the lionel dobbs interview on unhinged. I once had dealings with him and his wife and you wouldn't meet more genuine honest and fair people. Unhinged being there to capture it all was great.. also great seeing the pleasure john dunn obviously got from winning for the dobbs.

What i would say gammalite,is irrespective of the merits of both sides of the argument about specific drivers decisons,isn't it clear from what you have read on here,that there is an expectation from many punters that its appropriate that stipes sometimes ask questions of drivers . lets face it,racing can't afford to lose any punters . . for example walt has said he hasn't had a bet since he backed mounga. i can tell you i stopped betting for a wee while after watching mounga who i backed. Also i remember after reading the stipes report on that david butcher drive on turnpike joe i stopped betting on north island trots for a couple of weeks. Why support something that you don't think is honest? I also know someone was unimpressed with what he saw as questionable tactics as relates brent barclay drive being discussed so just stopped for the rest of the day on saturday.(not me) so my point is. harness racing these days can't afford to lose punters for a day,a week or months.Most punters just keep betting ,but theres a % that get turned off. For some reason Its a factor that people don't seem to consider when discussing this type of subject.

Just had a look at harnesslife. Not much to it. Points for trying i suppose. But theres a bland feeling to it. i don't know,but isn't it obvious theres reasons unhinged is so well known and so watched . So,forgive me for stating the obvious,but its the content of unhinged. obviously the front person helps,but the subjects of his interviews are real people,with real relateable emotions and personalities,all that combined with also showcasing the horses and delving into their personalities. its a proven product with nothing but positives. Hard to understand why hrnz doesn't take advantage of something right there under their noses. but hey,some of the decision making by hrnz seems to lack logic,so if the same people are coming up with strange decsions in other areas of the industry,should we expect anything different?

what makes a top driver is an interesting topic. youv'e stated IQ and ability to read a race and desire. I think abilty to judge pace is one of the most important. Self confidence another. You only have to look at how good some drivers can be when they are in form. Johnny cox an example of that. Currently he would be the most in form driver. Even some top drivers form can be a bit patchy,so current self belief and confidence show the mindset is important. blair orange an example of somone who always at his best. obviously the horse is extremely important. abilty of the trainers that they drive for another. very few can reach the heights of the very best,but anyone just competing ito the best of their abilities is an achievement that should be applauded when they do have success. Thats the thing about harness racing and racing in general. For 95% of people that have success,the level of enjoyment is the same at the bottom level as it would be for those in a group 1 race. that actually should be part of how racing is promoted going forward. Keep it real. You can't sell the dream that you can be expected to make money in horse racing,but you can promote selling the dream that you will experience a high that you can't get elsewhere should you have some success. thats what that unhinged fella does so well and is why his content needs promoted more.

Stewards do factor in what a horse is paying when considering whether to ask the question as to why a poor performance or driven in a certain way. It used to be standard practice to read what the driver of a beaten favorite had to say in stipes reports in nz. Doesn't happen now,but it did not that long ago,so if you wanted proof that a horses short price is an indication that the stewards will consider seeking comment if they deem necessary,well there you have it. I'm not sure why your sticking to the stewards are different from punters theme. It is just one of many things that they must consider. Who would have anyone have any confidence in the sport if they thought stipes couldn't differentiate between a 70/1 shot and an odds on shot being driven to go on the fence at the first opportunity and be driven for luck. When you said stewards don't tell drivers how to drive,and i should know that. well i agreed with that,but i gave context to that so i'm not sure what you are meaning there. when you said Walt was deliberatley implying barclay was trying to get beaten. well thats not my interpretation of what he said about mr barclay. i thought he was implying the level of tactical competence was sadly lacking and that because of that the question as to why he adopted thoswe tactics should have been asked. Have you ever thought gammalite that perhaps barclay hasd a reasonable explanation that had punters been informed they would have accepted. The southland stipe gave barclay no such opportunity. That drive iis different from moungas drive as two different posters on here said they were told before the race mounga was not there to win. One thing i'm tired of,is people ignoring the video evidence. Every race has a video which captures what happens. Anyone can watch it.

I think thats a very over the top reaction to a stipe asking a simple question with the intention of informing the punter. I can't see what the problem is. as to your point about consistency. i think you do make a good point. But i think they are consistent in their own way. The canterbury stipes make more of an effort to inform the punter and police the rules. the north island stipes seem to occasionally have slept through some races and aren't as committed to transparency and miss some obvious things. And the southland stipe comes from an area where he most likely sees those involved more on a social level than stipes in other areas so tries to tread a fine line and occasionally the punters lose confidence in the product because he hasn't scrutinised something that he should have. Now i make those comments based solely on what i read in the stipes reports they produce. and without knowing them. Its similar to district court judges for example. Judges put their own interpretaion of the seriousness of certain offences and use their discretion when deciding what an appropriate sentence may be,knowing what the legislation says. I've always thought you can get quite a bit of inconsistency around the country depending on what judge is in what area. for example.I know in one city there was a resident judge who for years was pretty hard on repeat drink driving. Then when he retired the judge that replaced him took a much softer sentencing approach to repeat offenders,with the result drink driving numbers increased even with less policing.

I thought it went without saying a horses odds are a reflection of how the public see the chances of a horse. So i think your quite wrong if your suggesting the stipes should not consider the tote prices relevant.Like walt said,you have to respect punters intelligence and not put them all in the same basket as being unable to differentiate between good/bad or the odd questionable drive. Then you say stewards don't tell drivers how to drive. well that is true but their job is to oversee an industry that expects a level of tactical competence from the drivers and very importantly,the perception that everyone is trying. Harness racing just reflects society,not everyone is honest 100% of the time or plays by the rules every time.Its the same in any sport especially with gambling or money involved,which you must know anyway. Your background does give you an insight,which most don't have, into the many reasons why things can happen in a race and you have given a couple of good examples of what you mean.But while thats an asset and advantage in understanding the subject,you don't have to have driven in a race to have a thorough knowledge of it. I can understand the fine line a steward may tread in an area like southland where theres a smaller circle of participants and the participants are all just trying to make a living. But stewards jobs are to protect those very same industry participants by maintaining perceived integrity in the product,so punters invest and keep the money and fun flowing.

If your going to say that,then i would say you haven't given me a good example. good time betty last 2 starts its finished 9th,beaten 37.5 metres and 11th beaten 43.2 metres. Betterthandiva had finished 6th,beaten 5.9. metres and 4th beaten 5.1 metres.I've stated the distance beaten in metres as i'm using the aussie tabcorp website as the hrnz website is not responding,as often happens. The point is,well done if you backed good time betty,but the more information the punter has the better. Better to question more than do what they do in southland and leave many punters feeling pissed off because they can't even question the obvious.

I think thats a bit tough nowornever. Either we want stipes doing their job to provide information to the public,or we don't. Surely thats the whole point of this thread. If you want to know which stipes are doing the best job to protect punter confidence,then you should just look at who the stipes are and whats in their reports. Todays stipes would be the most switched on of any in nz.

I think your pretty much on the mark walt,but i do get newmarkets point as P nairn driving of forgiveness isn't doing himself any favours. Personally i think on top of what you have said walt,nairn is trying to make a point that he will drive a horse quiet if he wants to. Now no one is arguing that forgiveness has been foolproof under pressure. People have seen it break a lot a few starts ago. But nairn still carries a whip that he never ever uses,nor has he informed the stipes so that they can inform pubnters that he will not be pressuring his horse in a finish because of his lack of confidence in its manners. So for 4 weeks in a row now people watch him just sit there and they are beginning to wonder a bit. Hence thats reflected in newmarket starting a thread about it. Nairn obviouskly has been driving under a stay of penalty as he was suspended last month for lack of vigour in a finsih on this horse. So thats why i say he may be trying to make a point. Maybe hes thinking about how it will effect his upcoming appeal if he were to show some vigour on the horse and it was to respond.I'm not saying he doesn't have a point,i'm just saying its not helping his public perception from the comments i have heard from some punters.

punters just expect better tactical decisions i suppose gammalite. The key is this horse was a $1.70 hot favorite. Theres a justified expectation for the driver of a red hot favorite not to get boxed in with 600m to go. really it comes down to, if you want to retain punter confidence then stipes should at least ask the obvious questions. Its also pretty pbvious,that if stipes don't question drives like barclays then the drivers concerned will think its ok to drive like that ,which will lead to punters losing confidence in the product. Funny thing was i was talking to someone today and the second thing they said to me was whats wrong with the southland stipes. I asked why and they said well brent barclay clearly made no apparent attempt to get a clear run with the $1.70 favorite being talked about. Personally i just think sometimes drivers made poor tactical decisions and theres no doubt b barclay did that. Any normal driver would not have got boxed in with 600m to go on a $1.70 favorite. I also thought in race 8 they may have mentioned the outward movement of the b gray trained winner onto its stablemate,hayley jaccka,driven by barclay. I only watched the head on once but i thought the winner clearly moved out enough to impede hayley jaccka .I'm not saying the winner was ever going to be relegated but the stipes normally mention things like that. Do they not realise people were shown the head on on trackside.

just did and a bit strange to read stufff like that isn't it. Only 2 of the 72 start with a letter that comes after H. Healgender-a gender identity that gives the person peace ,calm and positivity. I wish.

The whole transgender and gender diverse thing i think is a very complicated subject and just one of those things where we need to look beyond the vocal minority of them,the morally bankrupt media and the woke politicians who often promote the issue based on what they themselves have to gain. Its a subject i found interesting and read a lot about about 5 years ago when you could see it coming and i think you just have to follow the data gathered from countless studies and you simply can't ignore that there is a direct linkbetween the majority of trans/gender diverse people and mental health issues. Thats not to put everyone of them in the same boat as there are many genuine people out there who are actually happier and genuinely transgender.So those people have done whats right for themselves. For example in 2022 a USA government department did a study which found 82% of people identifying as aforemnetioned,had considered killing themselves and 40% had actually attempted suicide. The rate being higher in youth. Then last year another study found 42% had attenpted suicide and 56% had engaged in non suicidal/self injury behavior and again 82% had accessed mental health care.. It also found non binary people were 4 times more likely to have drug and alcohol problems thans trans peoplle. To me it makes sense to think the surge in numbers is also linked to social media and peer groups. Youth feeling emotional and mental health distress often looking for a reason and being pushed in the direction of gender diverse or trans and parents,often well meaningl but also sometimes taking the easy choice and being ignorant of the real mental health issues there child has. every time i see someone pushing the issue to the forefront,whether it be politicians,media or the vocal supporters who want to ram there message down our throats,i think what does someone who is genuinely transgender and who is seeing themselves represented by these groups,actually think about how they are being portrayed and what are thoses groups actually doing that can make a difference to those amongst them who have mantal health issues. But its just another issue which leads us to believe the leaders of the westen world are creating populations who will never be as happy and contented as previous generations. And its all man made which is why its rather sad.

oh well,you can't be right 100% of the time. Got it right when you used to talk about the possible adverse effects from the vaccines,not that many will want to hear that again. Astrazenaca withdrawn world wide just reported.Today they reported, that in nz there were 1868 reactions to that vaccine and of those 329 were adverse reactions. consider those numbers when last year they reported only 9090 doses of astrazenaca were given in nz. so 329 adverse reactions from only 9090 shots.thanks jacinda for lying.Mick guerin what a loser on that as well. And what about the oncologists explaining why many of them are saying the booster(3rd shot) and any subsequent shots is unfortunately contributing to the undeniable increasing cancer numbers. Apparently something in pfizer which in the first 2 shots increases the immune response,but in some people they are finding each subsequent shot actually doing the opposite and the body reacts by reducing its normal level of immune response,which of course is not good.

peter profit headline may be able to tell you that.