TAB For Ever

Good sense there Chief. Watched this race and several replays with a lot of interest as my friend has a small share in the winner. Got drag thru at start and got perfect run and came 3 wide at exact right time to get the win. Cambridge favours those who are on the rail.....IMO a big advantage , huge in fact at Cambridge. The horse in question would have had to go 5 x wide on turn adding 6 lengths to her handicap in last 300m. IMO an OK decision to stick to rail and hope for luck...it never came. Horses run well for Kristina ,I think she drives well.

Actually 11 in South Island and 29 in North. Over varying distances....all Karaka eligible have the opportunity to win bonus !

Of course not.....they working thru their strategic plan ,and few businesses make money in their first year ! They just getting started......gotta admit they hit a few milestones in their first year and they done a lot of things that even the most derelict critics said need doing ! Their plan to push Thoroughbred ownership experience will start soon . Their Adverts are being noticed , sports betting continues to flourish , sure to be plenty of action packed moments over summer.Dean shannon should feature in many of our Group 1 Harness races ! Doing better than I thought they would [ Entain]. Don't forget NZ Racing was on the ropes...join in ,you may enjoy the ride ! This thread seems to have broken your stride ! I forgot that Entain has planned a Mega-maiden series to start soon with several races in South Island...40 x races with $20k to winning owner , $5k to trainer. Well received and will be sought after !

Come on Chief , firstly it was a surprise you started this post ,especially with your heading and secondly you got caught up with two confusing charts of single meetings which told us very little ,and I'd hope that you would know in business that you don't bank percentages. All this concerned you for 25 years , maybe it time to consider some CHANGE ! I'd like to correct an error I made.......the biggest day for betting on a NZ race day was not the NZ Trotting Cup day on a Tuesday with $7.5 mill [ 13 races ] but the 2024 Karaka Day with only 6 races...yes $9.5 mill..The final race of day was the record for single race $2.6 mill beating NZ Trot Cup 2022. On Karaka Day there were 48,000 kiwis used their phones to bet [up from 36,000] So even 2% of Karaka may be better than 10% of Kumara or Kurow. Of course Karaka puts $300k thru bar and all Hospitalty full to so the club profits there ,but that another story . Back to Melbourne Cup Day NZTAB took a record $28 mill for day with $13.4 bet on the big race. The TAB's profit on this day is not from non-core activities ! The Kumara and Kurow numbers don't include the NZTR funding and extra costs for trackside etc to attend. In 2023 Kumara got $140k for stakes but NZTR funding was $230 k.So a NBR of 10% leaves it short so yes ,few if any meetings would 'make money ' on day for TAB. Thats why the NZ TAB is fully involved in promoting Aussie racing.....Everest was huge last year ......Aussie racing is CORE business. Also SPORT now is one-third of Betting Revenue. And last time I looked Kiwis bet more on Aussie racing with the NZ TAB than they did on NZ Racing ! I hope you read this spiel......and you get time to digest it. 25 years is a long time to be listening to spin. Take in these facts and you loyal antique followers may do similar. CHANGE the way you look at things and the things you look at will change !

Noted barry b......Victoria racing seems keen to continue the Jumps racing plus they support NZ doing likewise cos they obviously source a lot of horses and riders from NZ. From memory , you are a good Te Rapa man so what is your opinion about NZ jumps racing . The Ballarat track seemed quite firm and those recent Melbourne Cup contenders seem to set a blistering pace in the main race where the accidents occured !

Maybe , I was given 17 x different tablets to take so it probably not all candy ! You seem to send a lot of insults my way !

I'm hoping for a crown beside my name ,I only got a star ! Geez ! But been a bit isolated of late and been reading a NZ book on Meth........Mad on Meth by Benjamin Collins the TV1 Reporter. Racing ,both animals and people get a few mentions !

Looks like I being called out to comment on two charts giving meetings with the best and poorest %'s and ratios when comparing stakes paid to total wagering. Firstly I can't understand how any one can waste time on this line of thinking ,let alone come to any conclusions which will help our ailing industry.As it happens our rest-home's TV has packed up so I have some time to waste ! The lists are very obvious , I could have named them off the cuff ,easy to predict. Over the years the NZ racing ....all codes have developed a calendar which has suited the NZ lifestyle and weather well. But many Clubs did rest on their laurels early in 2000 and things began to wane and even in our best period early November to end of January took a hit especially Harness with a lot of bad publicity re Integrity etc. But Kudos to the TAB and the Codes for upping the promotion of Industry ...the Melbourne Cup had huge promotion and Summer racing and Christmas at the Races brought big crowds and record punting ,new customers etc And there were plenty of races around the time that most of NZ is on holiday. In some areas BYO drinks was forbidden and there was some resistance about clubs charging an entrance fee which continues today . SO IN BRIEF ,ALL THOSE MEETINGS IN OUR GOLDEN TIMEFRAME, especially Boxing day to 10 January , do real well. Often at gallops there are some small fields of largely maiden and one win plodders...no worries the few times a year punters have recovered from the giddy heights of Melbourne Cup day and happy to get a family summer pass to races. I bat for both teams so I can put my Harness overlay over the gallops and see that Harness often does even better than the Gallops[ in South Island]. On the list of worst performed obviously the meetings with the bloated Group 1 stakes do worst but as our adored Aussie neighbours tell us they provide a halo effect and so crucial to the future. Northern trainers may like taking their horses to the West Coast [South Island] for one week but would they repeat it five times in a year ? Plus other than Kumara's iconic meeting the other tracks not so flash ,Harness does better. In fact Harness betting stacks up on Sundays extremely well throughout season at Country meetings.That could change.An Oct Ashburton gallops meeting was on 'winners' list possibly cos warm favs won most races apart from 2 x $40 shots winning and the trusty TAB offering boosted $50k First 4 ,which they often do at Harness which has the Aussies throwing money our way. So little one -off blips can affect comparisons of single meetings. Hence a waste of time IMO. Some FACTS......the biggest betting race on NZTAB calendar is not even a NZ race [ Zero stake !!!!!! ]Melbourne Cup . .....the biggest NZ meeting for betting is on a non -holiday Tuesday.....NZ Trotting Cup ...the next biggest turnover days are the Group 1 days . A cynic could say lets lower all NZ stakes to Industry level locally ,and promote and market the big Australian races. And close more tracks unless they have the cash reserves to sustain 10 to 15 meetings a year. To earn dates clubs would need to establish a cash flow from outside of racing , engage with the community and start out like the Picnic clubs in Aussie with pony races , small owner/trainers and Amateur jockeys. May even save jumping. Oh ,and sell what tracks we can...Avondale would be nice and build a couple of high-spec tracks with training facilities .Challenge Ellerslie as top-dog and leave them to concentrate on running conferences and school balls ! They very good at that ! ............................

Any reaction to this post re Jumps racing..... Someone could have said...Yes Kiwi jockey Aaron Kuru had a pretty good day ! Whatever , its hoped if you folk have a real interest in NZ jumps racing surviving you have about a week to send in a submission. And wasn't it great to see ANN Browne and her colours win the main Steeples at Te Rapa on Saturday.

No point missed.......the heading of post quite misleading IMO. Six races , a couple of the abject failures have had stakes lowered , but six races upped in stake along with some warm fuzzies about maiden races , a category which Australia has ignored for years. If NZTR pulled this one they would be ridiculed on here for BS and spin etc Just as the top end races and their publicity from NZTR are ridiculed yet the lowest stakes have been steadily and consistently improved. The mention of Picnic races is an interesting one.....maybe the clubs who feel disadvantaged in NZ and are losing dates could run these .They are promoted heavily in Aussie ,big social / family days and often run on Public holidays and or strategic days ...eg Melbourne Cup day They have the tote/bookies for bettng ant other meetings ! A few years doing great Picnic days could see clubs back on the TAB calendar. Pirongia used to run a good 'social' day on Boxing day .

Maybe there are too many trials available these days....dozens of trainers want to whiz their horses over 800m on heavy track trials but different story come race day ! Seemingly only 3 x horses nommed for Wanganui race over 800m on Saturday. But 2 x from north have stepped up to make it 5. Do trainers keep their speed horses in cotton wool to keep owners hopeful [ and paying ! ] From memory I think last years quinella in Wanganui race both raced on Karaka night, the winner ran 4th !So many lured in by the hype of Karaka sale , only to find their horse and trainer too delicate to 'have a go'.

NSW now admitting to a lot of the Challenges that NZ has faced for decades . Very lucky they have had huge help from the NSW government in trying to grab attention off Victoria. And they taken the lead off many NZ initiatives of recent times , tho must feel grateful that their owners have had twice the ROI that NZ owners have had . And so much emphasis on the top end...that will have the Chief spewing.....with the Everest promotion the 'golden egg' with its mega-rich races ! Creates a halo effect and helps engage the youth , the future to wagering....it gets funnier ! Even scrap developing over the possible sale of the time -honoured Rosehill racecourse ! WOW ! Just skimmed it in passing but it makes NZ's efforts look OK ! Any promising young NZ trainers should be doing a BBaker or CWaller and heading over to the mega training centre. Or Focus on success at Elleslie or winning bags of kumaras elsewhere !

You a funny man Chief......your headline for this thread very misleading and doesn't really sum up the RV announcement. Cos really there has only been ONE newsworthy decrease...the kinky ALL STAR MILE and they worked in some 'catchy' maiden races with various series and trying to boost interest in some of their Country courses which so many on here wax lyrical about. And they don't explain the small print.....SPIN as is often referred to on here. Obviously you didn't see the article suggesting that the boost to lower classes /plodders was something they picked up from New Zealand's strategy . NZ has alway had stakes much lower than Aussie ,plus the returns to owners has been appallingly low but in recent times tho the increases to Group 1 and sweepstake races has hogged the headlines the grassroots minimum stakes has NOT been ignored. In 2017 all stakes received a boost with the majority of increase going to minimum stakes.Overall stakes rose 13 % but the minimum stakes rose over 40% ...from $7 k to $10k. In 2021 all stakes rose again ,the biggest % rise being in minimum stakes .....+20 % from $10k to $12k , and to $15k for feature meetings. Again all stakes rose as did all Clubs funding. Then at the start of current season ,saw the big push to rejuvenate the Industry. All stakes rose ,EVENLY across all categories of races and all regions.....Premium Maidens at $30k stayed same, but all Feature races increased .Feature maidens went from $15k to either $20k or $25k depending on time of year. Industry day races went from $14k or $15k to between $18.5k and $25k. Twilight races went from $14k to $25k and ALL other Industry races went from $14k to $17k. As in the Australian Headline grabber ,poorly paraphrased by the Chief , there are special series type races with finals etc. eg a $350k South Island race ,a $350k Trentham race for 1 x win horses , a $350k Waikato race for MAAT[Maidens at time].The small print says a $9k acceptance fee so a sweepstake element. So some copy cat there , both countries singing from the same songbook and obviously the ALL Star Mile not doing the job intended so moves venue and lesser stake.. But a mischievous heading from the Chief , with little support from other than the odd parrot and pretty much ignored by everyone else. Fake news !

Little wonder that Victorian racing has added weight to the call to continue Jumps racing in New Zealand as they did recently. Their jumps racing seems to rely on Kiwi bred and/or trained horses to make up their fields . Today the ex -Rotorua Cup winner The Good Fight [ ex SRitchie/Murray ] won the AU$400k Aussie Grand National. He has been gone about 3 yrs and he beat ex-Wellington Cup winner Leaderboard [Mark Walker] who just crossed the ditch for a few races ! The winner well bred by High Chapparal -Pravda In the undercard Jericho flat winner Nassak Diamond [ owned by Oaks Stud] beat Hit the Road Jack. The Cunning Fox [ Reliable Man] made it two from two earlier and the Duke Of Bedford [ Tavistock] also won. Theire was also plenty of place getters that were Kiwi bred...another by Tavistock and one by Guillotine who like Tavistock was by Montjue ! The main race had an odd-on favourite who was a one-time Melbourne Cup fav but he was giving away a huge weight impost and punctured before the 800m. It looked a torrid pace and there were a few fallers !

Another good Christ College lad who shows glimpses of brilliance. And very accurate at goal ,and scores a lot of points !

FYI Gamma , Phil and Glenys Kennard run those syndicates that you refer to , that feature GWoodham and JGibbs and the prominent breeders the Breckons usually involved too.

I will keep trying........still not clear on who is going to own all the extra horses , and more horses will need to be bred too and be affordable ! Keep the thinking cap on !

You a funny man Chief .......my posts clearly outside the parameters of the standard expected on here , this thread alone my character been assassinated and my feelings hurt and even my ability to fight in a bar room questioned. I comment to provide some balance...from the naysayers , doom and gloom merchants etc who claim they like horses ,NZ Racing or both . Every couple of weeks I find myself among 'life-long' racing enthusiasts who stand around moaning about NZ racing and wonder why young people aren't joining them in the Sport of Kings ! Jeez...attitudes are contagious...I ask them ...is yours worth catching ! I genuinely enjoy spring racing into the summer meetings etc In a recent survey [ about 18 months ago] Harness owners /participants were asked several questions .When asked what the main few attractions were to Harness ....the top answer was , Passion for Horses followed by Fun and Engagement. Not rated highly was moaning about Administrators , embarrassment with stakes and betting numbers or the TV presenters ! Re Ownership.....haha....NO , not a successful owner ,actually not even big enough to register / rate a mention. I have a few small shares in areas of interest ,like jumpers , with smaller battling trainers and also a taste with the big stables so I can see how they run , what they do etc and increase the chance to have a runner on Group 1 day.. And you wrong ,I don't frequent the Champagne bars as a chick magnet ,I prefer to be around the grumpy old stale males and marvel that they can't see what scares off new and young enthusiasts. Except ,of course , for one or two involvements per annum with the mighty BGP team. But hard work having to shave and shower to wear my BGP lucky sox ! And like you Chief ,I cant see the value /point of SLOT races but I don't bang on about it. Interesting that frustrated trainers confide in you......maybe you need to filter their comments and understand that the bitches and moans could be isolated , off the cuff comments telling you what they think you want to hear.Misery loves company ! Up walks the grumpy old Chief , known for his dislike of Ellerslie , Synthetic tracks and Entains generosity ...so what do you tell him ? Many will launch into one of these subjects , and some will run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.. I walk up and maybe they see me as a potential sharepurchaser tho if they say me drive up in my 1996 Honda logo they wont think that. So they will talk positively about life ,say they have some nice young horses ,good staff etc NO negativity. Often my next comment will be a question which gives em a chance to launch into a huge selection of excuses eg I backed your horse Slimey Fish the other day ?...oh yeah ,had a bad ride , didn't handle the track and there's been a bug going around stable etc etc. Excuses ,excuses...a topic for another day. Must look at todays trials now....wonder if they on bog track ? the ones I went to recently were . Mondays trials at Cambridge well attended by the way ! But all that for another day.......some great racing lies ahead...A passion for horses , leading intoFun and enjoyment. PS ...typing error , the bottom paragraph fell off the page ,more bad luck for me ! My days of committees/Boards etc and well meaning ideas about improving things /leave legacy is well gone.Volunteering in responsible positions a thing of past. the new Incorporated Society demands etc has ended this. If you want to get into the inside , apply for a paid position and take your chances ! Nah , not for me !

Fair enough....Rangiora and Wahdyke seem to be losing their use by Thoroughbreds ,unless was Washdyke asked to resuscitate Jumps racing. Leases can be longterm ! And I not aware that Motukarara too cold and wet. Racing Administration has been growing in size and cost in recent times cos of extra Governance requirements ,H & S ,animal welfare and Integrity and WOF checks etc , I wouldn't like to see them any more bloated ! The ATC planned for their future to create a sustainable future via a sizable nest egg and we saw how that ended up ! It looked good on paper !

In Canterbury , if this mega centre for training is essential to lead Harness into the future why couldnt an established property like Motukarara , Rangiora ,Ashburton or even Washdyke be considered ? Ashburton now used more and more for Thoroughbred racing and trials but what about the others. Back in the day there were many small trainers scattered from Washdyke,Tinwald , Rakaia, Hinds and every village in between.

Well Chief , what specifics are you interested in....as far as jumpers concerned if racing folk want it to continue they need to commit to getting more horses qualified to race. There are several trainers around who have been in jumpers in past but MIA now. What else do you need to know ? My way of thinking rarely gets agreement from the naysayers on here....so many kind words printed about me . i feel bullied ! I just write my experiences on here and hope that the crumbs of knowledge from you racing 'experts' will blow my way ..It been a bad year for me ,I actually won a competition on here but I got cancelled from that . A winner outside the tight five was not permitted. But as I said ,i'm really looking forward to this season ......can't waste time worrying about things outside my control. Booked for Cup Week , all Group ones in North including Great Nothern day.....and batting for both sides I have interest in a few useful Harness horses as well so plenty to look forward to . Some great racing to look forward to ! ps...looked like I typed on the wrong post ,I intended answering one of Chiefs banging on about the lack of trials .

There's a few trainers based in Pukekohe and the arrangement is/was that another new establishment would be built...high tech too. But at the latest report , the expected spare money for the Project after Puke sale was looking to be less than previous. Lincoln Farms have a big stable[ Ray Green] and I think Dunns and N Purdon have boxes with them.Also Jeremy Young ,McGowan, the Blanchards and possibly Matt White are at track as well. Balles are next door and Zac Butcher there as well.Hacket/Wallis are at Waiuku and a few at Kumeu track . Rumour has it at least one senior trainer moving to Canterbury. Obviously there is still plenty of equity in Alexandra Park but most in Club don't want to move to somewhere an hours drive out of time. and there not a lot of available land out in the Puke area !

My mistake then.......reading your post it was all about Canterbury getting use of a good proportion of Forbury Park proceeds. Most of it referred to Canterbury And though I no longer live in Canterbury I thought Canterbury was awash with horses and trainers etc. And more and more Auckland owners are involved in horses racing in the South Island. I don't think too many folk actually honestly believe that Auckland Harness can be resuscitated . Notably the mega-owner Stonewall have a big base in South now . But obviously Entain and it's bosses are punting on Auckland rising from the dead . It still has a good facility in the City , some great horsepeople but losing horses by the week. The cost of land ,grazing , feed and training costs much higher in North. No doubt ,Canterbury is the major force in NZ Harness.

Gee Doomed , I think i'll join Chief and get some Leonard Cohen music to listen to and drift away and slit my wrists. With Spring approaching and the best horses about to step out again I'm brimming with excitement about what is coming up. Tomorrow the iconic Taupo trials are held which leads into Group racing at Te Rapa , Hastings then into big Aussie racing ,Christchurch Cup week then into Summer racing and the New Year .More Group racing and the picnic Summer meets with the big once a year crowds. Coming up is the end of Jumps season ....this Sunday a huge Jumps day at Ballarat [Victoria] then the Great Northern races at Te Rapa. Save some breathe and write in to help save NZ Jumping. I've taken taken shares in a couple of jumpers ,one this week ,so I'm hoping that we get the green light for at least another 5 years of Jumps so it can be reprieved long term.Then there is the excitement of whether any two year olds show the zip to be aimed for Karaka millions and seeing if the 3 year olds show classic potential. Your grizzle re higher stakes / small fields and wasted stakes on Synthetic racing is very discouraging for increasing the reach in NZ . it been done to death but Synthetic racing has proved useful for given non-mudders a reason to stay racing over winter and certainly helped track work /horse fitness enormously. A couple I have a share in have had more opportunities to earn a bit and kept trainers/ workers earning and provided jockeys with extra income. Ditto these extra stakes you object too. Trainers and jockeys in particular earning much better money .A few seasons back there were few jockeys who rode $1mill stakes ,I think there 27 last season with 7 over $3 mill. Inflation helped no doubt but it aint helped Owners. Returns of 25% or less were miserable ,owners leaving in droves and the Industry in NZ basically insolvent unable to to pay its bills.Covid camouflaged this sad state of affairs . Yes Entain has stepped in with huge Investment , they have a plan and they trying to implement it . Obviously they committed for a limited time but there are many parts to their business which enables them to splash extra to NZ Racing. But they looking at increasing Ownership , attract new and lapsed punters and trying to resuscitate participation in the Auckland region where the most people live . So we know we have at least 4 x years of this ,it won't all succeed but at worst things will still be at your finger tips...great racing from around the world , more racing on TV ,plenty to bet on .NZ will be still be breeding great horses and producing great horsepeople. Night will follow day. I expect the tight five will call me names , again ,but please answer one question ...How are you personally adversely affected by high stakes , small fields and a bit of synthetic racing while most of the South covered in snow and most of the rest in rain soaked tracks. Us owners are actually quite pleased we being better treated .....as LCohen would say.....Hallelujah !

Some good points galah , but more criticism about the 'high stakes' races needs more thought IMO. And more thought needs to go into as to who is going to breed and own the horses. These crucial parts of racing have become very expensive hobbies .In fact many small breeders now given up or soon to give up . The big breeders too feel the pinch at times and they need good sale prices for their foals to cover costs ,therefore they need big investors including newcomers to be attracted into Harness as owners. When they ask the return on investment and you reply 25% if you lucky it a hard sell. And the new owner gets plenty of time to think about his investment as many horses don't even race for stakes for at least 18 months after they purchased and there no escape from the monthly bills. Many horses actually never race and most don't win more than one race ! Many of the top trainers of recent years either got lucky when they were born into a successful Harness family ,married into one or worked bloody hard ,took a risk then nurtured a Group 1 horse and made the sale. Now days many survive and succeed by developing and selling young horses. Working for a successful stable , learning the art of training and impressing likely investors/owners ,while training one or two of own 'after work' seems to be the best way to go IMO. It's hard work. Being handed all this with Industry money IMO takes away some of the incentive . And merely developing horses for sale overseas doesn't encourage young folk to enter industry as drivers etc and doesn't help the field size which is the catalyst for extra wagering . In short ,you make many good points but three KEYS.....Breeders/Owners/Punters would not be satisfied.And the Canterbury concentration will contract the industry faster with the North Island drowning quicker !