Riccarton a joke

[FeelTheFear]

2 minutes ago, curious said:

How the hell can the TAB and NZTR have entirely different times posted for this race?

It doesn't surprise me. NZTR often have the times wrong on the CSV files for each meeting. They have added final race times for each horse and many cannot be correct. A horse that finishes 1.5 lengths behind the winner cannot have a slower time than one 1.8 lengths behind. I think they just guess. I adjust with my own time adjustment. These guys couldn't consistently get anything accurate.

Thanks for the time anyway curious. 

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, FeelTheFear said:

It doesn't surprise me. NZTR often have the times wrong on the CSV files for each meeting. They have added final race times for each horse and many cannot be correct. A horse that finishes 1.5 lengths behind the winner cannot have a slower time than one 1.8 lengths behind. I think they just guess. I adjust with my own time adjustment. These guys couldn't consistently get anything accurate.

Thanks for the time anyway curious. 

Clearly the time mistakenly posted was from the 600 which is very similar to the time Avantage ran to win the equivalent race last year.  People do make mistakes and this was an obvious one so suspect no harm done. 

In regards a horse finishing behind another but having a faster time aren't those the last 600m times?  So If one was ten lengths behind another 600 out and improved to be only .3 of a length at the post it is entirely feasible(indeed logical) it ran a faster last 600 is it not? 

  

[FeelTheFear]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Clearly the time mistakenly posted was from the 600 which is very similar to the time Avantage ran to win the equivalent race last year.  People do make mistakes and this was an obvious one so suspect no harm done. 

In regards a horse finishing behind another but having a faster time aren't those the last 600m times?  So If one was ten lengths behind another 600 out and improved to be only .3 of a length at the post it is entirely feasible(indeed logical) it ran a faster last 600 is it not? 

  

No I am talking about final race times. NZTR give adjusted final times to all runners. As  for mistakes, they make them all the time. 

[Reefton]

6 hours ago, FeelTheFear said:

No I am talking about final race times. NZTR give adjusted final times to all runners. As  for mistakes, they make them all the time. 

Yeah sorry. Realised what you meant when I went and had a look.

[Freda]

While I am in the frame of mind to have a whinge..probably should be another thread but ...stipe control?  A pet concern of mine.

Just two incidents among probably many... Tanya Jonker on that Japanese thing,  at it's previous start,  settled back, sailed around the outer and bolted in.

On Tuesday,  it begins reasonably again  [ was sent down because it was refusing to jump out ] ,  gets snagged back to last - and stays there.

Was any question asked about the tactics?  doubt it.  The report merely states ' became unbalanced across the crossing' .

Poor Director has tendons in his hind legs severed and is subsequently euthanased.    The offending rider,  a new apprentice,  was  out of her depth and struggling to control her horse;  could be clearly seen down on the fence pulling its head around - finally, panicked,  she hauls it sideways and straight over Director's hind legs.

She'll survive, the horse didn't and its connections are filthy.  Understandable.

She gets a holiday.

She could have been hurt herself,  or hurt other riders.

How about go back to the trials,  lassie - or better still,  give up? 

She has been thrown under a bus by her boss  - who used to raceride  [ and would have been the first to complain about a novice rider getting in his way ]  and should have known the horse was too strong for her - and our  system who allowed her to ride in the first place.  She struggles to hold horses in track gallops ffs.

No wonder punters have little faith in the offerings.

[muzenza365]

No different up here,

One Baker Street was completely stripped in both hind legs and close to being euthanized. The connections will have a large Vet bill to contend with, along with not having a horse to race for some time, or if at all.

The Stewards must be held accountable for any incident on Raceday, as these apprentices must be charged for incompetence and in this way, they MAY learn,  but equally, the 2 riding masters must hold a degree of responsibility for allowing/recommending these riders to be licensed, when clearly they are not ready clearly. Wait until one of these apprentices or someone else gets seriously injured and they get Worksafe and OSH visting and asking questions, just ask S McKee what the financial implications of an accident can cost. 

 

[hesi]

Talking about stipe control, and the incident happened at Riccarton about a year ago.

You may recall, the starter let the field go, while one of the barrier attendants was still in front.

Miracuously the attendant emerged unscathed after all the horses had thundered past.

The incident was in the stipes report, but adjourned till a later date, that never ever happened.

Unprofessional

[Freda]

Wet bus ticket Hesi.

[Rowley Mile]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

While I am in the frame of mind to have a whinge..probably should be another thread but ...stipe control?  A pet concern of mine.

Just two incidents among probably many... Tanya Jonker on that Japanese thing,  at it's previous start,  settled back, sailed around the outer and bolted in.

On Tuesday,  it begins reasonably again  [ was sent down because it was refusing to jump out ] ,  gets snagged back to last - and stays there.

Was any question asked about the tactics?  doubt it.  The report merely states ' became unbalanced across the crossing' .

Poor Director has tendons in his hind legs severed and is subsequently euthanased.    The offending rider,  a new apprentice,  was  out of her depth and struggling to control her horse;  could be clearly seen down on the fence pulling its head around - finally, panicked,  she hauls it sideways and straight over Director's hind legs.

She'll survive, the horse didn't and its connections are filthy.  Understandable.

She gets a holiday.

She could have been hurt herself,  or hurt other riders.

How about go back to the trials,  lassie - or better still,  give up? 

She has been thrown under a bus by her boss  - who used to raceride  [ and would have been the first to complain about a novice rider getting in his way ]  and should have known the horse was too strong for her - and our  system who allowed her to ride in the first place.  She struggles to hold horses in track gallops ffs.

No wonder punters have little faith in the offerings.

Oh Jesus I hate reading this, but it's a must read......it makes me sick, there have been incidents over here in Oz whereby the offending rider has been sued for hurt and damages when incompetence is involved, however, as Freda succinctly points out another party is involved also, a lawyer would delve into that one very deeply one feels. Poor horse, poor connections, I really feel for them, the young lass would never have done this on purpose and probably is devastated, but her licence should be revoked immediately not just suspended. What a bloody shame NZ has such archaic litigation laws, otherwise the owners would be in boots and all, to firstly the apprentice's mentor, and the bloody RIU for having such poor governance.

I was a jockey way back in the olden days, we were tutored in a very different manner to what happens today, this lass's boss was a very experienced jockey, why the hell would he have then exposed the kid to potential danger like this? FFS.....and the hiding of the real facts by the Stipes? Oh Jesus, I'll close by saying, if it was my horse that was put down, I would not go quietly, there would be some very nervous officials, as when it comes to animal welfare this little black duck can go rogue.

[MaltedMilkshake]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

While I am in the frame of mind to have a whinge..probably should be another thread but ...stipe control?  A pet concern of mine.

Just two incidents among probably many... Tanya Jonker on that Japanese thing,  at it's previous start,  settled back, sailed around the outer and bolted in.

On Tuesday,  it begins reasonably again  [ was sent down because it was refusing to jump out ] ,  gets snagged back to last - and stays there.

Was any question asked about the tactics?  doubt it.  The report merely states ' became unbalanced across the crossing' .

Poor Director has tendons in his hind legs severed and is subsequently euthanased.    The offending rider,  a new apprentice,  was  out of her depth and struggling to control her horse;  could be clearly seen down on the fence pulling its head around - finally, panicked,  she hauls it sideways and straight over Director's hind legs.

She'll survive, the horse didn't and its connections are filthy.  Understandable.

She gets a holiday.

She could have been hurt herself,  or hurt other riders.

How about go back to the trials,  lassie - or better still,  give up? 

She has been thrown under a bus by her boss  - who used to raceride  [ and would have been the first to complain about a novice rider getting in his way ]  and should have known the horse was too strong for her - and our  system who allowed her to ride in the first place.  She struggles to hold horses in track gallops ffs.

No wonder punters have little faith in the offerings.

This is my fear I have for my horses. This poor horse...OMG, I would be hysterical if it happened to mine. 

OK - this is indicative of the systemic failure within NZ racing. Firstly, who gives this girl a license to ride in races. That’s where the system fails.....it all comes back to grass roots and that’s where it all falls down.

Another query...does David Walsh regularly attend morning trackwork?  If he is the apprentice mentor would he have not picked up on the fact she has trouble holding horses in trackwork? 

What’s wrong with her Master? Why did he put her in that position? 

may we hope she doesn’t ride again...she obviously doesn’t have any common sense.

Another chapter in the NZ accountability stakes...where there are only NON starters.

 

[FeelTheFear]

It's a joke: J. Laking, rider of Director gets suspended for 10 days next race after pushing 3 horses onto Devil's Staircase. The level of riding is atrocious. The Stipes Report for race 2 I thought I was reading the field nominations. 10 of the 13 runners cited for hampered, crowded, over-raced, careless riding etc. Geez...

Race 3: S Jamie (FIRE LILY) – Admitted a breach of careless riding after permitting FIRE LILY to shift outwards near the 800 metres striking the hindquarters of DIRECTOR which was severely hampered. After hearing submissions the Judicial Committee suspended S Jamie’s licence to ride in races from the conclusion of racing on 12 October up to and including 27 October 2018, 12 national riding days. S Jamie is to receive intense training from Apprentice Jockey mentor D Walsh and her employer L Robinson. DIRECTOR (J Laking) – Severely hampered near the 800 metres when galloped on before being eased down by its rider. DIRECTOR was quickly attended to by the on-course veterinarian and humanely euthanised after suffering a severed flexor tendon of the left hind limb as a result of being galloped on.

Race 4: J Laking (OUR FLYING ACE) - Admitted a breach of careless riding in that he allowed OUR FLYING ACE to shift inwards near the 1350 metres when insufficiently clear, crowding SABRAGE, EMILY MARGARET and MISS CURIOUS onto DEVIL’S STAIRCASE which was checked losing ground. After hearing submissions the Judicial Committee suspended J Laking’s licence to ride in races from the conclusion of racing on 12 October up to and including 25 October, 10 national riding days.

Think I will take up betting on stock car racing

[Freda]

Yeah..and Jason is a very experienced rider who should know better.

As a matter of interest,  I see T Comignaghi was 'spoken to for easing the pace '   in that same race.

I had a very good filly ruined when the leader 'stacked them up ' sharply,  bringing two down. Nothing was said.

But in this case,  I don't think Tina 'stacked them up'  ... she found herself in front by default,  her instructions were to tuck in behind, so she did the best she could to settle the horse.

But wtf is wrong with the other riders, could not ONE of them go on and make more pace?  that was ugly to watch,  with horses reefing and rolling all over the place.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Rowley Mile said:

Oh Jesus I hate reading this, but it's a must read......it makes me sick, there have been incidents over here in Oz whereby the offending rider has been sued for hurt and damages when incompetence is involved, however, as Freda succinctly points out another party is involved also, a lawyer would delve into that one very deeply one feels. Poor horse, poor connections, I really feel for them, the young lass would never have done this on purpose and probably is devastated, but her licence should be revoked immediately not just suspended. What a bloody shame NZ has such archaic litigation laws, otherwise the owners would be in boots and all, to firstly the apprentice's mentor, and the bloody RIU for having such poor governance.

I was a jockey way back in the olden days, we were tutored in a very different manner to what happens today, this lass's boss was a very experienced jockey, why the hell would he have then exposed the kid to potential danger like this? FFS.....and the hiding of the real facts by the Stipes? Oh Jesus, I'll close by saying, if it was my horse that was put down, I would not go quietly, there would be some very nervous officials, as when it comes to animal welfare this little black duck can go rogue.

Surely,  if anyone had been hurt - other than just a mere horse, ffs - Osh and/or Workplace Safety might have had a look?

The ACC provisions have removed the right - or need - to litigate for personal injury,  but H & S certainly can take action I think.

[Poisoned Dwarf]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:07 AM, muzenza365 said:

No different up here,

One Baker Street was completely stripped in both hind legs and close to being euthanized. The connections will have a large Vet bill to contend with, along with not having a horse to race for some time, or if at all.

The Stewards must be held accountable for any incident on Raceday, as these apprentices must be charged for incompetence and in this way, they MAY learn,  but equally, the 2 riding masters must hold a degree of responsibility for allowing/recommending these riders to be licensed, when clearly they are not ready clearly. Wait until one of these apprentices or someone else gets seriously injured and they get Worksafe and OSH visting and asking questions, just ask S McKee what the financial implications of an accident can cost. 

 

what happened to S McKee ?

 

[Shad]

Stipes need to step in and get some pace into the races, especially staying ones. 

[Guest CrossCodes]

it does seem that anybody that knows how to sit on a horse can get a license in the South Island, some of the jockeys down there would struggle to get a trial license in Australia, they are that bad.

Seems if there is a lack of riders they just send a few more from Malaysia over, whether they can ride or not.

This girl who shouldn't have been out in the track, and the trainer for putting her on should be ashamed of themselves for effectively killing someone else's horse.

[Newmarket]

I have mentioned many times about riding in sth island, nth island not a whole lot better. 

[mardigras]

13 minutes ago, Shad said:

Stipes need to step in and get some pace into the races, especially staying ones. 

I'd be disagreeing with that. How do you then lay culpability? All riders would have to be fined. The rules should be sufficient regarding excessive slowing of pace causing horses to race up on heels, clip etc. How can you fine a jockey for riding a horse slow if the other jockeys do nothing about it. If they do it safely, that's their right.

[FeelTheFear]

1 minute ago, mardigras said:

I'd be disagreeing with that. How do you then lay culpability? All riders would have to be fined. The rules should be sufficient regarding excessive slowing of pace causing horses to race up on heels, clip etc. How can you fine a jockey for riding a horse slow if the other jockeys do nothing about it. If they do it safely, that's their right.

Jockeys are required to give a horse every chance to win. A slow pace with a sprint home may allow this for the leading horse. Other jockeys in the race can change the circumstances if it impinges on their ability to give every chance. 

[wally]

6 hours ago, Freda said:

Surely,  if anyone had been hurt - other than just a mere horse, ffs - Osh and/or Workplace Safety might have had a look?

The ACC provisions have removed the right - or need - to litigate for personal injury,  but H & S certainly can take action I think.

surely freda who are all these apprentices mentors 

[Freda]

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, wally said:

surely freda who are all these apprentices mentors 

I think it would be fair to say that often, a gifted sportsperson may not, necessarily, be a great tutor.

Two very different skills.

Imagine CWJ trying to teach anyone...there wouldn't be a lot said!

And also, I'm pretty sure they aren't out riding work with the kids, and therefore can only go on what they see at trials and what they are told by trainers.

Trainers have to have a lot of responsibility IMO....the two best apps in the south at the moment are Gosen Jagoo and Tina Comignaghi....both with the Parsons.....and the Andertons consistently produce good riders.

 

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Freda said:

 

 

 

I think it would be fair to say that often, a gifted sportsperson may not, necessarily, be a great tutor.

Two very different skills.

Imagine CWJ trying to teach anyone...there wouldn't be a lot said!

And also, I'm pretty sure they aren't out riding work with the kids, and therefore can only go on what they see at trials and what they are told by trainers.

Trainers have to have a lot of responsibility IMO....the two best apps in the south at the moment are Gosen Jagoo and Tina Comignaghi....both with the Parsons.....and the Andertons consistently produce good riders.

 

How many good jocks did Kevin Gray mentor!

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

How many good jocks did Kevin Gray mentor!

Lots.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Freda said:

Lots.

I think Kevin's wife has a big part in that as well.

[Rowley Mile]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

How many good jocks did Kevin Gray mentor!

Jesus, I rode for Kevin, when he had an owner trainers licence and Deac was mentoring him........I think Moses stropped the horse and Kevin didn't have grey hair.....shoot me.