Brodie Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I see on HRNZ web site, that Entain are wanting more turnover for harness racing! They are looking at holding more harness races, and have proposed having meetings for low class horses with much smaller stakes! Racing to be early in the week and centred mainly in the North Island, Auckland and Cambridge. Interesting that Entain want more racing so that they can gain more $? Firstly wonder if they nave realised that they are struggling currently to fill fields already so not sure how they are going to fill fileds kf there ks more racing for low stakes? Secondly, there is a certain way for Entain to increase turnover for harness racing, and easily actioned! Encourage punters to offload instead of RESTRICTING punters to pathetically small amounts, ingeniojs really! forget about increasing your yields on smaller turnover and increase your turnover ! The AML BS is also a turnover restricter with it being set at a paltry $1k!!!!! I have news for the TAB , people are not money laundering gambling on harness racing for $1k! Why would they bother????? Get it uplifted to say $5k minimum, K would doubt it is only $1k at the Casino? Time to get into the 21st Century, $1k is not a lot of money nowadays! Entain, your turnover and profit will improve greatly if you actually proactive and not regressive! You are losing punters by your draconian and unfair practices, surely they can see this? Increasing the number of races is not the answer if you haven’t got the punters!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 48 minutes ago, Brodie said: forget about increasing your yields Mmm not really want the Entain shareholders want to hear I would suspect. From a punters viewpoint it sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Draft dates calendar "not done deal" www.hrnz.co.nz Draft dates calendar "not done deal" Harness Racing New Zealand would like to remind everyone in the sport that last week's draft dates calendar is just that - a draft. Since it was released there has been an outpouring of comment, and in some case strong criticism, with many believing the new calendar is set in stone. "There has been a lot of feedback from people thinking this is a done deal. It is not," says HRNZ General Manager - Racing, Catherine McDonald. Included in the draft is the potential to have upwards of 86 more meetings in the 2024/25 season, mainly at Alexandra Park, Cambridge and Addington. "It is great to have a partner in Entain that is so ambitious and forward-thinking and we have to be innovative when it comes to increasing turnover," says McDonald. But the suggestion has seen many question how that would be happen given current horse numbers, and how and who would fund the extra races. "All these are good points and that's exactly why the draft calendar is now out for discussion," says McDonald. "It cannot be emphasised enough that Entain is testing the water here and now it's up to everyone in the sport to respond." In coming weeks HRNZ plans to extensively liaise with clubs, kindred bodies, trainers and other stake-holders. "We need to ensure all clubs and regions benefit from any changes and we need to grow the sport right through the country," says McDonald. That consultation period will conclude on Monday, February 19 with HRNZ and the other codes needing to make a formal submission to the TAB Dates Committee by March 1. The three codes will then come together with the TAB/Entain to finalise the calendar. For any more information contact catherine@hrnz.co.nz https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news/draft-dates-calendar-not-done-deal/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, Brodie said: I see on HRNZ web site, that Entain are wanting more turnover for harness racing! They are looking at holding more harness races, and have proposed having meetings for low class horses with much smaller stakes! Racing to be early in the week and centred mainly in the North Island, Auckland and Cambridge. Interesting that Entain want more racing so that they can gain more $? Firstly wonder if they nave realised that they are struggling currently to fill fields already so not sure how they are going to fill fileds kf there ks more racing for low stakes? Secondly, there is a certain way for Entain to increase turnover for harness racing, and easily actioned! Encourage punters to offload instead of RESTRICTING punters to pathetically small amounts, ingeniojs really! forget about increasing your yields on smaller turnover and increase your turnover ! The AML BS is also a turnover restricter with it being set at a paltry $1k!!!!! I have news for the TAB , people are not money laundering gambling on harness racing for $1k! Why would they bother????? Get it uplifted to say $5k minimum, K would doubt it is only $1k at the Casino? Time to get into the 21st Century, $1k is not a lot of money nowadays! Entain, your turnover and profit will improve greatly if you actually proactive and not regressive! You are losing punters by your draconian and unfair practices, surely they can see this? Increasing the number of races is not the answer if you haven’t got the punters!!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, Nowornever said: Mmm not really want the Entain shareholders want to hear I would suspect. From a punters viewpoint it sounds great. They worry about getting a higher yield rather than increasing the turnover. Profit will take care of itself with increased turnover, the odds are always in their favour, Edited January 17 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 'Profit will take care of itself with increased turnover,' You would think this would be obvious....but there are some posters who don't understand..this...looking at ....!!😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I think its obviously a good thing for the industry if they can run more meetings. I mean more races,even if the new ones are lower stakes,means more stakes are paid to owners,more income for trainers and drivers,more for the clubs,more for the transport operators,starters and their assistants,etc,etc,etc. I think canterbury should have no problem as if you look at the trials each week they always seem to have plenty in their fields. It would just be a matter of running the remaining trials before or after the races. from a betting perspective people will still bet on them. I guess they would have to look to have time slots that work in with australian coverage,but it would just be a matter of running appropriate stakes as relates to turnovers. some may say that punters don't want to see any more meetings for the lower graded horses. But the people that say that are the same ones who keep telling us people bet more on the meetings with the high quality horses in,when anyone who watches turnover figures can tell you thats not true. Its more about the exposure meetings get than quality that is the driving factor for turnover. Midweek meetings,whether they be for high class or low class racing will get limited exposure,so anyone who comes along and says when the turnover figures are just average because of the low quality horses,well i think they just talk a load of rubbish. It does seems a bit of a head scratcher that they would be suggesting auckland or waikato run meetings regularly. Obviously they don't have enough horses. The only problem i can see is the handicapping system. Talk to anyone and they will tell you the worst thing that can happen to any horse is to win its first start and be thrown in against r50 horses. Just imagine a low grade horse winning a non win race and getting a low stake and a big rating handicap. That will be a reason that would stop people lining there horses up or trying So the handicapping of the winners would have to be addressed. Edited January 17 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: You would think this would be obvious....but there are some posters who don't understand..this...looking at ....!!😉 It's you that doesn't understand. You could have $1 billion in turnover and make no profit. That's why yield needs to be the focus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: It's you that doesn't understand. You could have $1 billion in turnover and make no profit. That's why yield needs to be the focus. Dearest Brodster definitely categorised as a fly in the ointment of the TAB/Entain yeild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 8 hours ago, Rangatira said: Dearest Brodster definitely categorised as a fly in the ointment of the TAB/Entain yeild. My point is that they need to increase the pool of punters, not decrease it! Without punters the industry is stuffed obviously! TAB policy if restricting severely punters that have a win is absolutely flawed. If existing punters are turned away they eventually give it away and therefore they are lost to the industry where they are the ones who will be enticing other new punters to racing! Would love to know what the TAB policy is to entice new punters, as I personally do not know any young ones who have started punting on racing in the last decade? Successful punters is what the TAB should be promoting rather than trying to shut them down!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Brodie said: Would love to know what the TAB policy is to entice new punters, as I personally do not know any young ones who have started punting on racing in the last decade? You lead a sheltered life if you really believe that.Ever heard of BGP or been to a PubTAB ? Edited January 17 by JJ Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 33 minutes ago, Brodie said: My point is that they need to increase the pool of punters, not decrease it! Correct. 33 minutes ago, Brodie said: Without punters the industry is stuffed obviously! Correct. On the money so far. 33 minutes ago, Brodie said: TAB policy if restricting severely punters that have a win is absolutely flawed. Damn...your roll didn't last! No it is only restricting those who either consistently win too much or whose bet on occasion significantly changes the risk profile of the book. Every bookmaker has the right to refuse a bet or limit the amount bet. For example would you allow a bet to win $20,000 on a book that only has $500 in it? 38 minutes ago, Brodie said: If existing punters are turned away they eventually give it away and therefore they are lost to the industry where they are the ones who will be enticing other new punters to racing! What are you doing to entice new punters to racing? 39 minutes ago, Brodie said: Successful punters is what the TAB should be promoting rather than trying to shut them down!! I was hoping you would finish on a win... It is the nature of wagering/punting that someone wins because someone loses. Are you suggesting that the TAB should continually lose? However I do agree that some of their restrictions are ludicrous. For example a friend of mine was restricted how much they could win on more than one occasion for bets less than $50!! But that was before Entain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 9 hours ago, Rangatira said: Dearest Brodster definitely categorised as a fly in the ointment of the TAB/Entain yeild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: You lead a sheltered life if you really believe that.Ever heard of BGP or been to a PubTAB ? Who goes to pubtab and whats that. the only pubtab I know i really dislike going to.I went to a pub tab the other day and put 4 1e/w bets on for the wife at nelson it took me about 6 minutes. The time before it took me about 10 minutes to do the same thing.The machine kept going back to screens that i didn't want. Those pub tab machines are very time consuming to use. Edited January 17 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Brodie is correct plain and simple. I have said it before and will say it again,from my own personal experience the tabs policies to restrict ff losses have seen me close my tab accounts and i would bet only a small fraction to the levels i once did. And 90% of my turnover used to be through the tote. And as i have said another time,i know someone who used to spend about $2-2.5 million a year on tote turnover,much of that on harness racing,who since they started with their systems to limit winning on ff,now spends only a fraction of that through the tote. The tab employ people who are only interested in their own sector. By that i means its very obvious to me the ff bookies couldn't care less how their policies impact tote turnover and completely ignore the big picture for the tab profit wise. Also they are full of shit sometimes. One time i opened an account and thought i would use the rebates they give to high turnover customers, to increase my income. At the time there was no nz harness due to covid. So i bet on queensland harness.I spoke to 2 different people at the tab who told me i had to have an annual turnover of ... to qualify for rebates. Well i did that solely on the queensland harness within 3 months and rung them up . Their reply was they would consider it. Then 2 months later after still spending the same i rung them again. Their answer,no sorry. So i just stopped betting totally on queensland harness. Brodie is on the money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 31 minutes ago, the galah said: Brodie is correct plain and simple. No he is only partly correct. 32 minutes ago, the galah said: I have said it before and will say it again,from my own personal experience the tabs policies to restrict ff losses have seen me close my tab accounts and i would bet only a small fraction to the levels i once did. Name one solvent bookmaker, anywhere that allows unlimited betting and winnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 52 minutes ago, the galah said: the only pubtab I know i really dislike going to.I went to a pub tab the other day and put 4 1e/w bets on for the wife at nelson it took me about 6 minutes. The time before it took me about 10 minutes to do the same thing.The machine kept going back to screens that i didn't want. Those pub tab machines are very time consuming to use. Use the online app service - either on your computer or smart phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 34 minutes ago, the galah said: And as i have said another time,i know someone who used to spend about $2-2.5 million a year on tote turnover,much of that on harness racing,who since they started with their systems to limit winning on ff,now spends only a fraction of that through the tote. Didn't realise you knew @Brodie aka The Brodster! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: It's you that doesn't understand. You could have $1 billion in turnover and make no profit. That's why yield needs to be the focus. I do understand.Its you that seems to miss the obvious. The easiest way for you to get what i am saying would be for me to give an analogy. A man runs a restaurant/bar. A small % of his higher spending customers have a favorite meal. Problem is if he prices that meal at a cost where he turns a profit, the customers are put off and he loses them. When he loses them,he loses every facet of his business where they spend. In this case many are customers who when they come in spend large $ on drinks where his profit margins are very much in his favour. In other words,he has two choices. The first choice is to price the meal at a price that he could return a profit,but at the same time lose many of his customers that he makes a good overall profit off because of their spend on the drinks. His second choice is to price the meal that attracts them to his business in the first place,at a price which will see them stay regular customers. He accepts that he is losing a bit on the meals but overall coming out ahead when he factors in their spend on the drinks they consume. In this analogy the meals that the small % consume are the ff betting,the drinks are the tote betting. The answer to how he makes the most profit is so obvious. The problem with the tab is they look at at only from the profit on the meals side of things. The tab could even try a compromise for those they restrict.They could say to them,we'll increase the amounts you can get on for,if you increase your tote spend. But that type of thinking is outside the wheelhouse of the tab. If you talk to those that work at the tab and whose job it is to promote punter spending,they will tell you the ff bookies side of things is hamstringing them to a degree,but they can't change the way they work. Edited January 18 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 hours ago, the galah said: Who goes to pubtab and whats that. the only pubtab I know i really dislike going to.I went to a pub tab the other day and put 4 1e/w bets on for the wife at nelson it took me about 6 minutes. The time before it took me about 10 minutes to do the same thing.The machine kept going back to screens that i didn't want. Those pub tab machines are very time consuming to use. Hoppings great at Meredith Wilson's joint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 7 hours ago, Brodie said: Would love to know what the TAB policy is to entice new punters, as I personally do not know any young ones who have started punting on racing in the last decade? $50 of bonus bets, although it was $100 during the Cup weeks. Edited January 18 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 hours ago, the galah said: I do understand.Its you that seems to miss the obvious. The easiest way for you to get what i am saying would be for me to give an analogy. A man runs a restaurant/bar. A small % of his higher spending customers have a favorite meal. Problem is if he prices that meal at a cost where he turns a profit, the customers are put off and he loses them. When he loses them,he loses every facet of his business where they spend. In this case many are customers who when they come in spend large $ on drinks where his profit margins are very much in his favour. In other words,he has two choices. The first choice is to price the meal at a price that he could return a profit,but at the same time lose many of his customers that he makes a good overall profit off because of their spend on the drinks. His second choice is to price the meal that attracts them to his business in the first place,at a price which will see them stay regular customers. He accepts that he is losing a bit on the meals but overall coming out ahead when he factors in their spend on the drinks they consume. In this analogy the meals that the small % consume are the ff betting,the drinks are the tote betting. The answer to how he makes the most profit is so obvious. The problem with the tab is they look at at only from the profit on the meals side of things. The tab could even try a compromise for those they restrict.They could say to them,we'll increase the amounts you can get on for,if you increase your tote spend. But that type of thinking is outside the wheelhouse of the tab. If you talk to those that work at the tab and whose job it is to promote punter spending,they will tell you the ff bookies side of things is hamstringing them to a degree,but they can't change the way they work. Did you know I was Yield Manager for the largest rental car company in NZ at the time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: However I do agree that some of their restrictions are ludicrous. For example a friend of mine was restricted how much they could win on more than one occasion for bets less than $50!! But that was before Entain. What about that Aussie crowd that require the last 2 payslips of winning punters wanting to take advantage of the minimum bet offer. Requested under the guise of preventing harmful gambling LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 7 hours ago, JJ Flash said: You lead a sheltered life if you really believe that.Ever heard of BGP or been to a PubTAB ? JJ, actually have recently been to a Pub TAB recently, not going to say where or when for obvious reasons! To be fair if Entain was looking for the clientele that were there to be wagering in 10 hears time and be wagering enough to keep the TAB afloat through racing, they will be badly disappointed! Yes the TAB probably need this type of punter throughout NZ but seriously they were using coin to bet through the lady behind the counter! Not sure what you mean by BGP and leading a sheltered life? there are many in BGP are in it due to not being able to punt successfully themselves so they put money with BGP for the excitement! The favours that BGP get from the TAB is not in my unbiased opinion not right! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: No he is only partly correct. Name one solvent bookmaker, anywhere that allows unlimited betting and winnings. Chief, where did I say punters should be allowed to win unlimited amounts?? Being restricted to net $20 on specific types of bets is taking the piss surely???? Restrictions to certain punters is fair enough but the amount of the limits is just down right pathetic. They should at least allow a minimum of $2k net winnings on any single bet!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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