ben yole

[the galah]

Well the Ray murrihy report into tasmanian harness racing truly makes shocking reading.

It would be quicker to list the things ben yole hasn't done detrimental to harness racing and his horses,as the list of what he has done is so long.

But heres a brief look at some of the things they found did occur 

Perhaps to start,lets set the scene.Heres an example.

They left the tounge tie on a horse(blings on fire) after a race in which it was placed..A stable employee reported to tim yole that the horse still had the tounge tie on 4 days later and looked like it was going to die.They took the tounge tie off. They had it entered for a race in 2 days time. The yoles decided they would still take it to the races. The stable employeee complained that the horse looked disgusting and that they couldn't go to the races..... but they did. It ran a long last,beaten 211metres. It ran so poor a vet exam was ordered,but unbelievably the vet found nothing wrong with it.

Then the report said it was regular practice to terrorise(the reports words) horses in their wash bay prior to the races,by putting blinds,ear plugs on,then actiavting them while whipping them on the rump and legs.

Anyway you get the picture of how disturbing the actions of Australias leading harness trainer were.

But to list some of the other findings

1)race fixing

2)Team driving

3)raceday treatments

4)intravenous injections within 1 day(although apparently it was normal to inject all horses with 2 substances 2 days prior.

5)horses kept in poor conditions-too many in small paddocks,poor ground conditions,no protection from weather,horses being bullied by dominant horses and not getting enough feed.

6)poor vet treatment record keeping

Anyway enough of mr yole.

What about the findings as regards the office of racing integrity.

Seems no one ahd any confidence or trust in them. IThe report found that some of their behavior had no integrity at all and it found some of the things they told the inquiry were on the balance of probabilities not true,. In other words they were liars and covered up stuff. They even abused people who complained ,ignored complaints,ignored a complaint from one of their own steards that a driver had approached her with evidence of race fixing. Seems they never even followed that up and when they did after the media got hold of it,they didn't keep the records and then lied about all that as well.The findings around the chief stewart painted him in a very poor light.

It also said they should have been doing more unanounced stable visits and investigatory work,but didn't. 

It also highlighted that if anyone had a problem with a n official,no point complaining because they just investigated themselves,which they didn't do anyway.

The report found a "disturbing number of participants either had left or downsized their interests in tasmanian harness racing".... i  wonder why?

the report also found that part of the problem that the yole stable had got away with the animal welfare side of things for so long was because the rspca was hamstrung by the poor legislature and rules and regulations currently on the books,and that they didn't seem to have practices in place to consider the racehorses welfare after racing like they should. Thats as close as they seemed top get to addressing why yoles known as chainsaw.

7 yole former stable employees gave evidence.

Finally it refered to their handicapping system. And funnily enough even made mention of how it was unfair it was for low start,low grade horses to be graded above horses who have had so many wins,. Observing the handicapping system was designed to see more and more horses drop in grade,in what it called a race to the bottom. Sounded very similar to nz actually.

Edited February 1 by the galah

[Gammalite]

Absolutely disgusting what is happening. Aaron Bain should hang his head in shame too , supplying all the 'penny a share horses' .

All they are doing is milking the Tas prizemoney for whatever they can get out of it. There's no love of the horse .. or fun racing.. he's not even trying to get in any feature races .

Thankfully the RSPCA has been called a few times by concerned neighbours and they have found the horses to all have adequate nutrition and rugs etc. 

The tongue tie story is quite Awful but just a terrible accident. makes you feel sick that one though.

The wash bay whipping with ear-plugs and blinds is almost terrifying. Can you imagine trying to wasy your horse after a race that has been through that procedure??. It would swing around madly in fear  , everytime the hose touches him/her as you're moving about washing them . they would be that nervous it would be shameful thinking of what they're been through. ANYONE who loves a horse would NEVER do that. 

Shut the place down .Tas harness racing is Beyond POOR. Yole Having All (or nearly all) the runners in a Race = race fixing (or near race fixing ) as you couldn't help but influence the race result if All from one stable in so many races week in week out . Just Shameful this allowed to happen. Integrity Zero % ????

[Walt]

From a punters perspective, to wager there you'd need to be a heartless bastard condoning diabolically bad practices and a compulsive gambler that has the bar set at zero. 

They can't shut it down fast enough in my opinion. If they allow it to continue everyone who enables that is a scum sucking maggot. 

 

[the galah]

29 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Absolutely disgusting what is happening. Aaron Bain should hang his head in shame too , supplying all the 'penny a share horses' .

All they are doing is milking the Tas prizemoney for whatever they can get out of it. There's no love of the horse .. or fun racing.. he's not even trying to get in any feature races .

Thankfully the RSPCA has been called a few times by concerned neighbours and they have found the horses to all have adequate nutrition and rugs etc. 

The tongue tie story is quite Awful but just a terrible accident. makes you feel sick that one though.

The wash bay whipping with ear-plugs and blinds is almost terrifying. Can you imagine trying to wasy your horse after a race that has been through that procedure??. It would swing around madly in fear  , everytime the hose touches him/her as you're moving about washing them . they would be that nervous it would be shameful thinking of what they're been through. ANYONE who loves a horse would NEVER do that. 

Shut the place down .Tas harness racing is Beyond POOR. Yole Having All (or nearly all) the runners in a Race = race fixing (or near race fixing ) as you couldn't help but influence the race result if All from one stable in so many races week in week out . Just Shameful this allowed to happen. Integrity Zero % ????

Its a tricky one isn't it gammalite.

It would seem unfair to the honest, caring harness racing participants in tasmania to lose harness racing through the inaction of officials who turned a blind eye and ignored what the yole stable was doing.Many did everything they could to bring attention to it all,so for them to be penalised would seem rather unjust. Hopefully the harness industry keeps going and in the future they emply people in their integrity unit who actually have integrity.

The yole stable are clearly dishonest and those they employed almost as bad apart from those brave enough to give evidence against their former employer. I can't imagine anyone with any integrity working too long for a stable knowing all that was going on.

I view the tounge tie horse case as rather sinister to me. While theres no doubt it would have been accidental to leave it on for 4 days,the employee who came forward said the horse looked like it was going to die,wouldn't eat,looked really skinny and had a really sore tounge. One would assume it must have swollen up rather badly..

Yet despite that and despite the protests of the stable employee they took that horse to the races 2 days later,knowing it would have already been in a distressed state. It had run 2nd the week before,but ran 211m last.

Thats a deliberate act of animal cruelty in my eyes.

Also something which i think the harness racing media will likely completely ignore,is the findings that having one stable with so  mnay runners in a race invites dishonesty.

Just look at the dominance of the emma stewart stable in so many of those age group races in victoria. Its a bad look and people just turn off the sport when they see so many from one stable in a race. People have to be consistent on that. If its a bad thing in tasmania,its a bad thing where ever it happens.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, the galah said:

Just look at the dominance of the emma stewart stable in so many of those age group races in victoria. Its a bad look

Why is it a bad look?  You would have to create specific unfair rules to stop it.

[Gammalite]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why is it a bad look?  You would have to create specific unfair rules to stop it.

They qualify a big chunk of the field in the Sires Stakes races each year. 

They set their horses for those Group 1 races , Oaks , Derbies etc and qualify as many as they can because they are good at it. So don't agree with the Galah about Stewart multiples. 

So I don't see a bad look at all myself. Group 1 racing with the best horses in it . Fabulous.

I've just been arguing with someone at another station about Tim Williams , apparently rigging the Marlborough Cup for John Dunn to Win . John Dunn did win it and Dunn's probably had a few in it and .....

Instant Waaalaaa . stablemates accused of collaberation. Someone Didn't like the Look of it lol. BTW Tim Williams did nothing wrong IMO. Marlborough Cup. 

Happens all the time with stablemates in a race though.. . 

Yole has 10 of the 12 runners in a lot of races 😳.... so that LOOK is quite Bad as far as collaberation goes, no way could it be run 'Every man for himself ' . just a sham really. 

 

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I've just been arguing with someone at another station about Tim Williams

It would be hard to find someone more honest and with as much integrity as Tim Williams in NZ Harness Racing.

CeeMeNow has a history.  I wouldn't be surprised if it his him that feeds @Archie Butterfly.

As for the aspersions cast against Tim's father Brent who is on the RIB board by CeeMeNow and @Archie Butterfly well again Brent is a very good friend of one of my mates.  Brent is as honest as the day is long.

As a Board member he has zero influence on individual judicial decisions.  Just pure crap to infer otherwise.

 

[the galah]

51 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why is it a bad look?  You would have to create specific unfair rules to stop it.

i agree they would have to create specific rules. And yes i do think in the future that will come to pass,thats if there are enough other trainers still going to have a viable industry.

just look to tasmania as to how the overall number of participants has played out with the yole dominance.

You realise that in tasmania ben yole had 6 or 7 in a field at one stage and just continued to grow.

in those age group races in victoria emma stewart very often had 1/3 of the starters and sometimes over half.Hows the turnover and stakemoney on victorian harness going.

the media celebrate that part of the stewart dominance,yet have a double standard when they refer to ben yole.

To me what i have said is so obviously a major problem.

 

Edited February 1 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, the galah said:

agree they would have to create specific rules. And yes i do think in the future that will come to pass,thats if there are enough other trainers still going to have a viable industry.

Give @holy ravioli a call - it's called socialism.  Why don't the rest get better?

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, the galah said:

To me what i have said is so obviously a major problem.

But your only solution is to slay the Tall Poppy!  The Yole situation is a completely different scenario.

[Gammalite]

4 minutes ago, the galah said:

in those age group races in victoria emma stewart very often had 1/3 of the starters and sometimes over half.Hows the turnover and stakemoney on victorian harness going.

the media celebrate that part of the stewart dominance,yet have a double standard when they refer to ben yole.

you're sort of wrong mate .

The races where Emma gets a third of the field and sometimes half are because they Qualified for them . Semi -Finals and Finals . so they have to start.

In a general nuts and bolts race Emma just has one or 2 the same as  anyone else might .

YOLE doesn't go for Qualifying for any big races. Just loads the Nuts and Bolts races with slow horses. Apparently their is still Betting on them . ? so they still run them ? How ? I couldn't possibly invest a cent on Yole runners ... 

[the galah]

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But your only solution is to slay the Tall Poppy!  The Yole situation is a completely different scenario.

So its a bad look because someone has 7 of 10 runners in tasmania,but its a good look when someone in victoria has the same thing.

12 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

you're sort of wrong mate .

The races where Emma gets a third of the field and sometimes half are because they Qualified for them . Semi -Finals and Finals . so they have to start.

In a general nuts and bolts race Emma just has one or 2 the same as  anyone else might .

YOLE doesn't go for Qualifying for any big races. Just loads the Nuts and Bolts races with slow horses. Apparently their is still Betting on them . ? so they still run them ? How ? I couldn't possibly invest a cent on Yole runners ... 

Its the vic bred races i'm referring to. They are the ones emma stewart dominates numbers wise.

my view is,what or wherever the races are is irrelevant. Run any race anywhere ,where you have one stable with over half the runners and punters,rival trainers and owners,will look at that and say they will be team driving..

I'm just saying that was one part of the murrihy report that is worth thinking about.

I'm not comparing how the stewart stable operate to the yole stable in any way.

Edited February 1 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, the galah said:

I'm not comparing how the stewart stable operate to the yole stable in any way.

In effect you are.

[Gammalite]

15 minutes ago, the galah said:

Its the vic bred races i'm referring to. They are the ones emma stewart dominates numbers wise.

my view is,what or wherever the races are is irrelevant. Run any race anywhere ,where you have one stable with over half the runners and punters,rival trainers and owners,will look at that and say they will be team driving..

I look at those races and I don't see it . 

The Vic Derby comes round each year , as well as Vic bred, and Breeders crown , and those sort of races with qualifying heats. 

Emma will have 2-3 runners per heat. Her Stable has great stock (like Allstars and now Barry Purdon too with the Entain CEO buying horses for him like Merlin ) so these mobs set the horses for these type of races run top 6 in the heats , then top 6 in the semi's , so are All usually in the finals. Good horse PETRACCA won the Vic Derby for them . And Emma got the FIRST 4 in the Vic Oaks from memory on TV. Vic Cup night . (she won that too beating Leap To Fame) 

so NOTHING wrong with supporting Emma Stewart , Allstars or Big Barry's runners. Why ? because they Always give you a run for the Money . always. no matter how many from their stables are in the race. And they are quality races too.

YOLE ? you are very lucky if you get a run for your money . horses are flat out to run 2 minutes MR. you couldn't possibly support them . some backwater low class slop races...Punters wouldn't look at them.... or as Walt said earlier here... you couldn't ethically support them either. 

[the galah]

57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

In effect you are.

 

i would have thought you knew what i meant by that.

i was referring to how they look after their horses when i said that.

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

I look at those races and I don't see it . 

The Vic Derby comes round each year , as well as Vic bred, and Breeders crown , and those sort of races with qualifying heats. 

Emma will have 2-3 runners per heat. Her Stable has great stock (like Allstars and now Barry Purdon too with the Entain CEO buying horses for him like Merlin ) so these mobs set the horses for these type of races run top 6 in the heats , then top 6 in the semi's , so are All usually in the finals. Good horse PETRACCA won the Vic Derby for them . And Emma got the FIRST 4 in the Vic Oaks from memory on TV. Vic Cup night . (she won that too beating Leap To Fame) 

so NOTHING wrong with supporting Emma Stewart , Allstars or Big Barry's runners. Why ? because they Always give you a run for the Money . always. no matter how many from their stables are in the race. And they are quality races too.

YOLE ? you are very lucky if you get a run for your money . horses are flat out to run 2 minutes MR. you couldn't possibly support them . some backwater low class slop races...Punters wouldn't look at them.... or as Walt said earlier here... you couldn't ethically support them either. 

You say theysometimes run the top 6 in the heats then top 6 in the semi's. Well that seems to mean you do accept they have more than 2-3 runners in each race.

Take this year. In those vicbred heats they had 1/4 of all starters,but when you break it down to their numbers in the pacing heats,its much higher because they don't have many trotters.

Your not coming up with a good argument if you are referring to the all stars. I know everyone thought their dominance in those age goup races not that long ago was a bad thing.Everyone except those that support the all stars that is.

I will tell you a story. I once was in the north island about 25 years ago.On my travels i came across the former part owner of a very,very good horse who in the latter part of its career had been trained by the purdons.I spoke to the owner about what it was like to own such a horse.He told me the story of how it was wonderful but their experience was soured by seeing their horse being used as the horse to undo the favorites from other stables on more than one occasion in the big races. e.g. like an interdomion final. In fact their horse could well have won had it not been driven in such a way. I remember the race in question and the discussion the drive received.You could probably guess the horse i mean if you remember the race and remember who won it and who owned it.

So the point is,every horse that is team driven and chances diminshed simply to enable a better finishing position of a stablemate,has owners,breeders, punters who are left feeling unfairly treated and conned to a degree.

Edited February 1 by the galah

[Gammalite]

17 minutes ago, the galah said:

You say theysometimes run the top 6 in the heats then top 6 in the semi's. Well that seems to mean you do accept they have more than 2-3 runners in each race.

Take this year. In those vicbred heats they had 1/4 of all starters,but when you break it down to their numbers in the pacing heats,its much higher because they don't have many trotters.

Your not coming up with a good argument if you are referring to the all stars. I know everyone thought their dominance in those age goup races not that long ago was a bad thing.Everyone except those that support the all stars that is.

I will tell you a story. I once was in the north island about 25 years ago.On my travels i came across the former part owner of a very,very good horse who in the latter part of its career had been trained by the purdons.I spoke to the owner about what it was like to own such a horse.He told me the story of how it was wonderful but their experience was soured by seeing their horse being used as the horse to undo the favorites from other stables on more than one occasion in the big races. e.g. like an interdomion final. In fact their horse could well have won had it not been driven in such a way. I remember the race in question and the discussion the drive received.You could probably guess the horse i mean if you remember the race and remember who won it and who owned it.

So the point is,every horse that is team driven and chances diminshed simply to enable a better finishing position of a stablemate,has owners,breeders, punters who are left feeling unfairly treated and conned to a degree.

There obviously plenty of credit to your arguement . Some stablemates get right of passage more than others on occasion. I'm NOT a fan of the scenario of a 'bunny' . i.e one used to force the pace, hold the lead against rivals at all costs , that sort of thing.

Actually was discussing a case the other day where Madrid at her last start in the Group 1  2 yearold fillies on Derby Day,  was used up a bit by Sam Ottley in the run and she was looking for Mark to come round with Treacherous Baby a lap out .  was a bit of a bunny I thought. Mark run down by Duchess Megxit in the end . 

I'll tell you what though , even when Emma has a fair few in those Group races , she uses a variety of drivers including several Lady drivers (One of them winning that Victoria Cup too) and they all seem to drive their own race without any concession to stablemates. I haven't spotted anything dubious , and got a pretty good eye for it. (IMO 😁)

And in fairness to YOLE, he uses a variety of young and senior drivers and the few Tassie races I have watched , I can't spot any giving help to stablemates blantantly either . I've seen no actual 'helping' another if you know what I mean. They are probably just doing the best they can to get the horse around the course and not get banished back to the trials for poor performance😂.  

 

[Rangatira]

Yole horses scratched on mass from Launceston tonight.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=LN020224

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

Yole horses scratched on mass from Launceston tonight.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=LN020224

Pitch up dog òwners.

[Brodie]

Launceston race 7 no.1

Taxi Meter, think it will win!

 

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Launceston race 7 no.1

Taxi Meter, think it will win!

 

It's a standing start mate. What if it gallops away ? What's the chances of breaking gear in a one horse race ? hahaha😂

[Gammalite]

A couple of Days on and All Yoles horses are scratched tonight in Hobart too.

It's almost a TABOO topic. The live coverage from Melton on TV didn't mention it .

The Tasmanian reporter on the Australian AHR website didn't mention it. Just said there was 2 Walkovers from all the scratchings in his report of the nights racing.

Ben Yole is warned off All courses . The report is damning .

It's A HUGE Story but everyone is Ignoring it lol. I guess some things make the honest participants squirm and they just can't face it. He had 7 disgruntled employees reporting stuff 😳. Must of been a pleasure to work for/with ? Not.

Can you imagine the Impact in New Zealand if the leading Trainer (Telfer or Dunn) was warned off for systematic fixing races with numbers of runners,  and other horse welfare issues ?? It would be Huge. Aaron Bain supplying horses should be embarassed (by their care after) 

I guess with B.Yole , everyone sort of knew this day would come. He didn't change his ways much from the TV report on ABC aired 8 months ago anyway, so a forced shut-down of his operation,  seems the best option for the integrity of the sport. Bloke never won Metro races anyway ,not even in slow old Tasmania,  and was ONLY the leading Trainer in Australia because of 'Stacking very low class Races '  with 10 to 12 runners quite often.... the sport will NOT miss this sort of treatment of horses and belittlement of the sport , hope he never returns . 

[the galah]

11 hours ago, Gammalite said:

A couple of Days on and All Yoles horses are scratched tonight in Hobart too.

It's almost a TABOO topic. The live coverage from Melton on TV didn't mention it .

The Tasmanian reporter on the Australian AHR website didn't mention it. Just said there was 2 Walkovers from all the scratchings in his report of the nights racing.

Ben Yole is warned off All courses . The report is damning .

It's A HUGE Story but everyone is Ignoring it lol. I guess some things make the honest participants squirm and they just can't face it. He had 7 disgruntled employees reporting stuff 😳. Must of been a pleasure to work for/with ? Not.

Can you imagine the Impact in New Zealand if the leading Trainer (Telfer or Dunn) was warned off for systematic fixing races with numbers of runners,  and other horse welfare issues ?? It would be Huge. Aaron Bain supplying horses should be embarassed (by their care after) 

I guess with B.Yole , everyone sort of knew this day would come. He didn't change his ways much from the TV report on ABC aired 8 months ago anyway, so a forced shut-down of his operation,  seems the best option for the integrity of the sport. Bloke never won Metro races anyway ,not even in slow old Tasmania,  and was ONLY the leading Trainer in Australia because of 'Stacking very low class Races '  with 10 to 12 runners quite often.... the sport will NOT miss this sort of treatment of horses and belittlement of the sport , hope he never returns . 

Good points gammalite.

The coverage in the racing media,or lack of as you mention,is very poor in my opinion.

Its like all the public can read about or see it on abc tv,yet to harness racing meida its just another story,no big deal type thing.

thers no coverage at all on the hrnz website.

Those that lead the sport really do have a head in the sand approach to these type of things.

The integrity unit over there must have been a total joke.

Its like when they had that car accident which 5 people got injured and 4 horses died. The police officer who first investigated it found that fatigue was a factor and that yoles people were often awake 20 hours at a time when travelling to and from the traces.

So the police officer wrote to the head of tasracing asking for his comments about how to improve things. What did tasracing do,they spoke to the police and that officer was removed from the case.The head of tass racing when advised of that ,then sent an email out saying,"all sorted,no further action required".

then there was the steward who complained about nothing being done after being approached by a licence holder with clear evidence of race fixing. She was the one that lived next door to yole and continually complained about what she saw. So waht did they do,they limited her involvement in harness racing .

The whole thing seem to have been a rort for a long time and that can only happen with incompetent oversight.

the racing minsiter seemed totally incompetent.

I just hope they don't allow the likes of yoles father to take over the training of the horses The public perception will be shocking if they don't shut yole down.

 

Edited February 4 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

thers no coverage at all on the hrnz website.

Those that lead the sport really do have a head in the sand approach to these type of things.

Why the hell would HRNZ have any desire or even a remote reason of commenting on negative news from Tasmania?

Can you give me even one good reason?

[the galah]

36 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why the hell would HRNZ have any desire or even a remote reason of commenting on negative news from Tasmania?

Can you give me even one good reason?

Well thats what i would guess you would be thinking,because you always under play the significance of these type of things.

But to answer your question.

Where do so many of ben yoles trained horses come from-NZ

what harness product is regularly shown on trackside nz with nz entain betting-Tasmainia harness racing

who is australias leading harness trainer-ben yole

If hrnz is to constantly have stories about australian harness,why ignore the biggest story for years in australian harness racing.

Have you ever thought hrnz could even be pro active in issuing a press statement,expressing their concerns, making comments along the lines that the nz integrity unit regularly polices such things as race fixing,animal welfare,life after racing,etc and they could make a statement encouraging their australian counterparts to take steps to ensure consequences which make sure this type of thing never happens again.

Then again chief,that would be being proactive wouldn't it.We can't have that.Nor can we have the yole story tainting the harness industry here.so what ben yole stable is full of ex nz bred/trained/owned horses. Out of sight is out of mind is best.Stick the head back in the sand and no one will notice . 

Edited February 5 by the galah