Chief Stipe Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, Huey said: Geez I'll take a moderately bred one thats performed as well as that any day of the week. You talk about it like finding one that can be winning 4 races is easy CS....headsup it ain't. Perhaps but at $76k over three seasons you haven't got a particularly good ROI either even when racing in a jurisdiction that has substantially greater stakes than NZ. 2 hours ago, Huey said: You need to get your trainers licence and get a real feel for how difficult and challenging the sport is, I think you might pop your fan boy balloon with the TA team a fair bit if you did. I know first hand how difficult and challenging the sport is and certainly have my eyes wide open as should anyone who buys into a syndicate. I've been directly involved in racing for 50 yeaers. I've worked in a stable, help train horses and been closely involved with every horse I've owned. I tell you when you attend oncourse every one of 52 starts that your horse raced you get a very good understanding of the industry. I quickly learned that most trainers are stock traders and optimists. The biggest negative I've seen about racing is the negativity based on pure envy and jealousy. That results in a fragmented Trainer stakeholder group and Tall Poppy Slayer followers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, nomates said: The thing is Freda that for some reason the big nob thinks that myself and Joe are focused on knocking TA , the tall poppy , we aren't Really? I didn't realise you speak for @Joe Bloggs but do you want me to list all the Tall Poppy slaying comments you both have made in one thread? 2 hours ago, nomates said: It's funny how the big players miss so many good yearlings that go on to be G1 winners with other purchasers , how did they miss them ? , because it's not an exact science . Of course it isn't but part of that is because contrary to what you infer the big purchasers don't have a bottomless bank account so they need to trade off their budgets against the horses they want and balance their purchases against their market segmentation. Like any business. However it may not be an exact science but some have a higher strike rate than others and that's a fact. 2 hours ago, nomates said: But someone as usual , one person that doesn't understand the process and chooses to create discord with nasty digs and continual accusations . Really? Are you talking about @Joe Bloggs again? Or is it just a case of Pot Kettle Black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 52 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Really @Freda ? That's the best you've got? Given my innate courtesy, that'll do. You don't have a 'Miss Jools' over here, however, so thought I'd dip my toe into the grammar/spelling correcting stuff. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 4 minutes ago, Freda said: Given my innate courtesy, that'll do. You don't have a 'Miss Jools' over here, however, so thought I'd dip my toe into the grammar/spelling correcting stuff. Well thanks for that but from time to time my eyesight and predictive text combine to post the wrong word even if spelt correctly! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, nomates said: The discussion is around all the big syndicators here and in Australia and how it's just a lucky dip at the high end as much as the bottom . I simply stated that a number of people I know or have known would do just as well with the same budget . It's not a fine art , it's a purely a numbers game but when your buying at that level in those numbers your chances are pretty damned good of getting a couple of gun racehorses . As that stable rep stated all these tall poppies have more failures than successes , it's just the way it works . It's funny how the big players miss so many good yearlings that go on to be G1 winners with other purchasers , how did they miss them ? , because it's not an exact science . But someone as usual , one person that doesn't understand the process and chooses to create discord with nasty digs and continual accusations . The real trial of a persons ability to find good horses is to buy 10 yearlings with 100k . It's the same as the top football managers at the biggest clubs , where they have the best players and huge buying budgets , just how would they go at a division 3 club and no real spending power , that's the real test of their ability as a coach . A very good post I thought amid a Flanders Fields of posts. Must say it would be a phenomenal effort to get even one feature race winner if you were trying to just spend 100k to buy 10 yearlings. The ability of the Te Akau bloke and Gai Waterhouse and several other trainers have a better strike rate than that , as can invest more and use lots of Expert methods and breeding patterns to select quite a few very Successful Horses each and every year. they (these gun Group 1 winning trainers on both sides of the Tasman) don't race too many in your 3rd division races these days though, as have 'earned the right' to be in the SuperLeague of Tall Poppies , ready to reap the rewards of a good harvest.... they Have to be careful though as Opium poppies swabs positive lol 😁. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Well thanks for that but from time to time my eyesight and predictive text combine to post the wrong word even if spelt correctly! Good to show we are not all perfect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Perhaps but at $76k over three seasons you haven't got a particularly good ROI either even when racing in a jurisdiction that has substantially greater stakes than NZ. I know first hand how difficult and challenging the sport is and certainly have my eyes wide open as should anyone who buys into a syndicate. I've been directly involved in racing for 50 yeaers. I've worked in a stable, help train horses and been closely involved with every horse I've owned. I tell you when you attend oncourse every one of 52 starts that your horse raced you get a very good understanding of the industry. I quickly learned that most trainers are stock traders and optimists. The biggest negative I've seen about racing is the negativity based on pure envy and jealousy. That results in a fragmented Trainer stakeholder group and Tall Poppy Slayer followers. The lass may have only won 76K, however she's had to overcome problems that would have curtailed many other horses careers.......and, as you well know, as you do, she was backed from 100-1 into 20's when she won her first race at her 3rd start.......we collected big time, you don't have to put a lot on at that price to get a lot back......you see, if you had a gambling culture, and you don't, you'd understand the importance of the punt this side of the ditch.......it was and always will be huge, and with all the options here if your trainer is good enough and you know what you're doing you only need a good provincial horse to bring those rewards to your door...... Mrs Bloggs was kind enough to give me the inside oil when her HOF trainer informed her to have a 'wager' on her horse and it duly saluted..........racing rewards come in all shapes and sizes, but NOTHING gives me more pleasure than to skin a bookie...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 If the return on investment is so important, I think you are involved in the wrong industry. Just like the Mastercard ad, winning a race no matter what the stake attached, is priceless! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 54 minutes ago, Special Agent said: If the return on investment is so important, I think you are involved in the wrong industry. Just like the Mastercard ad, winning a race no matter what the stake attached, is priceless! He's also in the wrong business running this site , bully's anybody that has a different point of view and if that doesn't work just buries them with inane questions and hypothetical . Never my intention to stick around here for long , came to make a small point , and as I know that Doug eventually bores everyone , me especially , the man has no grace when he's wrong . Catch you Joe . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said: The lass may have only won 76K, however she's had to overcome problems that would have curtailed many other horses careers.......and, as you well know, as you do, she was backed from 100-1 into 20's when she won her first race at her 3rd start.......we collected big time, you don't have to put a lot on at that price to get a lot back......you see, if you had a gambling culture, and you don't, you'd understand the importance of the punt this side of the ditch.......it was and always will be huge, and with all the options here if your trainer is good enough and you know what you're doing you only need a good provincial horse to bring those rewards to your door...... How much of it have you given back since? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Special Agent said: If the return on investment is so important, I think you are involved in the wrong industry. Just like the Mastercard ad, winning a race no matter what the stake attached, is priceless! I didn't first raise that point @TAB For Ever did. Winning a race is priceless and great fun. Ive enjoyed that privilege quite a few times. However if most stakeholders take the approach that they are going to lose or ROI is not important then nothing will change as everyone will accept mediocrity. Does it really makes sense to run a business at a loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 51 minutes ago, nomates said: He's also in the wrong business running this site , bully's anybody that has a different point of view and if that doesn't work just buries them with inane questions and hypothetical . That's your opinion and you are welcome to post it here. I suggest you wouldn't get the same leniency from Scooby Dog nor the same level of privacy. 51 minutes ago, nomates said: Never my intention to stick around here for long , came to make a small point , and as I know that Doug eventually bores everyone , me especially , the man has no grace when he's wrong . Wrong about what? Your negativity towards the industry and certain stables must be extremely hard to sustain. This thread is a classic of how such negativity pervades the industry. The initial post was of a YouTube video on an interesting subject. A very well produced video made by Entain. Yet the Topic soon descended into negative comments about Te Akau. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Well good on you Chief for sticking up for Te Akau through this thread. They are doing a great job and now with a Super Strong presence in Australia as All the racing world can see , with the great mare. And Nz won 2 races at a feature meeting here at the Valley on Saturday. Not just Imperatriz , but a Marsh runner beat a Te Akau runner in a support race. And that team said "Wait until you see the Good horse go if you thought that was good !! " lol 😂 Orchestral I think that is ? lol. well done Nz Racing, and Ellerslie looks great too ! people going and having fun . Yearlings selling well , no matter what the price and number. (try and keep Gai out lol 🤣 NZ Racing is still changing with ENTAIN taking over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, nomates said: He's also in the wrong business running this site , bully's anybody that has a different point of view and if that doesn't work just buries them with inane questions and hypothetical . Never my intention to stick around here for long , came to make a small point , and as I know that Chief Stipe eventually bores everyone , me especially , the man has no grace when he's wrong . Catch you Joe . Me Too Nomates, some really good buggers on here, great contributors, our comeback was short-lived, life's too short and valuable to spend arguing. The surfs calling, waxed the board, ye-ha.......see you all on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 57 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: Me Too Nomates, some really good buggers on here, great contributors, our comeback was short-lived, life's too short and valuable to spend arguing. The surfs calling, waxed the board, ye-ha.......see you all on the other side. Then why spend so much time being negative? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 A trophy for them both - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I didn't first raise that point @TAB For Ever did. Winning a race is priceless and great fun. Ive enjoyed that privilege quite a few times. However if most stakeholders take the approach that they are going to lose or ROI is not important then nothing will change as everyone will accept mediocrity. Does it really makes sense to run a business at a loss? Horse racing a business ... LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 51 minutes ago, Huey said: Horse racing a business ... LMAO Ok don't ask Te Akau ask Chris Waller. I don't think they are running a charity!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 So my take on earlier contributions to this thread seemed to be a return on investment for various owners not limited to trainers or syndicators. Not all those involved in racing are running it as a business. A heap of owners are in it for the fun, with bragging rites/rights a hopeful by product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 18 minutes ago, Special Agent said: So my take on earlier contributions to this thread seemed to be a return on investment for various owners not limited to trainers or syndicators. Not all those involved in racing are running it as a business. A heap of owners are in it for the fun, with bragging rites/rights a hopeful by product. The majority of ownes are indeed realist optimists. Although it helps now that you don't have to win 3 to 4 races a year to get ahead of your bills. But if a public Trainer is not getting a return on their investment then they are subsidising everyone else in the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 37 minutes ago, Special Agent said: So my take on earlier contributions to this thread seemed to be a return on investment for various owners not limited to trainers or syndicators. Not all those involved in racing are running it as a business. A heap of owners are in it for the fun, with bragging rites/rights a hopeful by product. Thinking about this further what future is there for young people in racing if a Trainer has no return on investment and needs to wait for a champion at some stage? Surely the 120 Te Akau employees are greatful that their employer is making enough money in the business of horse racing to pay all their wages. Likewise Chris Waller! Do you think the "Oh well I'm probably going to lose money so what the hell..." attitude has something to do with a lack of investment in the key infrastructure the industry needs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 3/27/2024 at 3:38 PM, Joe Bloggs said: Me Too Nomates, some really good buggers on here, great contributors, our comeback was short-lived, life's too short and valuable to spend arguing. The surfs calling, waxed the board, ye-ha.......see you all on the other side. I agree. The site has become a major disappointment. Time to find a site that is more balanced and treats its participants with some dignity. Bye all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 29 Author Share Posted March 29 37 minutes ago, Cyril said: I agree. The site has become a major disappointment. Time to find a site that is more balanced and treats its participants with some dignity. Bye all. I'd be interested to know @Cyril how you feel you haven't been treated with dignity? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Why do these half-breeds have the need to announce their departure. No one gives a rats arse what they do or who they are, they've probably registered here under multiple aliases anyway. The bloke who runs this site (which no doubt costs him money and time) does so to provide a vehicle for ungrateful pricks to voice their opinion (anonymously) to the world without moderation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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