Winter flat racing

[Wingman]

Like many of us enthusiasm wanes somewhat as winter and very heavy tracks loom. That said I have known many a punter that loved the wetter months and like you I can get sucked into the gruel that is a genuine slush/sticky track. I noticed that the stakes for the Winter months have been reduced but I was curious about open handicaps and what I uncovered is depressing. An owner with a mudder will be racing for stakes in most open handicaps that were available 30 years ago. A real you and us divide compared to Spring/Summer racing. Yes there was always a gap but that gap is now a chasm.  Scroll through the Saturday dates in the Calendar on NZTR and you will see. If one has a promising galloper that only performs on heavy, why bother. I had a lot of success in one early winter race which used to be known as the Kiwifruit cup raced mid/late June at Tauranga. We remember the names of those lovely horses that we bet on and won, so again using the excellent data available on NZTR website I can type in the horses name and see results and stake of race. The Kiwifruit cup was 35K in 1991, (approx 100k today), 2007, stake doubled to 70K but mid last decade dropped back to 40K. Problem is next month, ten years on, that race will be still 40K. I think there is a strong case to be made for racing to cease for 3 weeks in July and then a grand finale in the last week of July where real money is up. That unfortunately requires initiative and creativity regarding the racing Calendar...sigh   

[curious]

But we have the polys now to spice up the winter programme with reliable good footing?

[Freda]

Despite my love of the jumping horse, watching the rag-tag mob scrambling over tatty fences at Hawera was depressing.   It can't be long before the jumping is finished altogether, it's already gone in the south.

So, in reply to your [ I suspect ] tongue-in-cheek comment,  if we have to watch and/or compete in poly racing, it needs to be rewarded appropriately at least.

Dumbing down industry-day stakes I find inexplicable

As remarked upon elsewhere, Entain has come along and said, here, have some more money.  But their front-men seem to be as oblivious as our own management to the need to foster and encourage involvement at the bottom.

 

[Chief Stipe]

52 minutes ago, Freda said:

Despite my love of the jumping horse, watching the rag-tag mob scrambling over tatty fences at Hawera was depressing.

Those fences looked terrible.  Not very high either.  I could have jumped them!

[Huey]

Surely the dogs go then quickly the jumps.

A sad part of the industry to lose but they've let it get into the state its in .

[mikeynz]

41 minutes ago, Huey said:

Surely the dogs go then quickly the jumps.

A sad part of the industry to lose but they've let it get into the state its in .

I would be hoping that in the event of dog racing being closed that all the opponents will be happy to take the retired dogs and  home them, I personally would be getting a contract signed by SAFE and similar organisation's to take on their wellbeing, that is the main gripe as what happens after they finish  racing is probably the biggest issue.

Maybe the best thing to phase out is stop breeding any more, but I've often thought that society as a rule would be better if people stopped breeding and that's probably not going to happen either.

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

 

Dumbing down industry-day stakes I find inexplicable

As remarked upon elsewhere, Entain has come along and said, here, have some more money.  But their front-men seem to be as oblivious as our own management to the need to foster and encourage involvement at the bottom.

 

Yes, reducing basic stakes for about 5 months of the year just because they don't have of any of their over hyped $1m races during that period is a disgrace. 

I'm not sure if people realise, but if they had run those stupid twilight meetings at the normal $18,500 rather than $25,000 per race there would have been enough money available to retain the $18,500 minimum all year round. In face they could have run winter races for a $20,000 minimum with the money saved.

Nobody has explained the rationale behind those twilight meetings. Basically, an extra $52,000 to $58,500 per meeting for exactly the same fields as you get for a $18,500 meeting, just because they start an hour later than normal. Weird.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, mikeynz said:

I would be hoping that in the event of dog racing being closed that all the opponents will be happy to take the retired dogs and  home them, I personally would be getting a contract signed by SAFE and similar organisation's to take on their wellbeing, that is the main gripe as what happens after they finish  racing is probably the biggest issue.

Maybe the best thing to phase out is stop breeding any more, but I've often thought that society as a rule would be better if people stopped breeding and that's probably not going to happen either.

I don't understand why SAFE don't protest outside French Bulldog breeders and owners homes?

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Yes, reducing basic stakes for about 5 months of the year just because they don't have of any of their over hyped $1m races during that period is a disgrace. 

I'm not sure if people realise, but if they had run those stupid twilight meetings at the normal $18,500 rather than $25,000 per race there would have been enough money available to retain the $18,500 minimum all year round. In face they could have run winter races for a $20,000 minimum with the money saved.

Nobody has explained the rationale behind those twilight meetings. Basically, an extra $52,000 to $58,500 per meeting for exactly the same fields as you get for a $18,500 meeting, just because they start an hour later than normal. Weird.

Not to mention that if they redirected the money from boosting the top tier races and the novelty races they could probably run $25,000 minimum races all year keeping horses in the game longer to feed higher rated races.  But who cares about Open Handicap racing anymore...the suits obviously don't.

[mikeynz]

Personally I'd love greyhounds racing if it keeps going is have them running round and round until last one standing.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, mikeynz said:

Personally I'd love greyhounds racing if it keeps going is have them running round and round until last one standing.

The bunny would tire out.

[Freda]

As far as greyhounds go, the efforts made by GRNZ along with the retrainers is a well-kept secret.

Surgery for injured dogs before being re-homed is paid for by GRNZ, and every effort is made give these dogs a decent chance at a 'forever' home.

The publicity around greyhound racing is awful though, and one would think that some bright spark might just highlight what is actually done on behalf of retired dogs.

[Special Agent]

A few aspects that strike me reading these comments is that greyhound racing isn't finished despite the doom and gloom from a few, the expense to GRNZ to genuinely find homes for retired hounds is significant so is it funded like the gallops with 1% of all stakes being allocated to rehoming, and racing clubs are still able to contribute to stakes over and above what is supplied so why are the committees not getting out there driving sponsorship hard?

[Doomed]

45 minutes ago, Freda said:

As far as greyhounds go, the efforts made by GRNZ along with the retrainers is a well-kept secret.

Surgery for injured dogs before being re-homed is paid for by GRNZ, and every effort is made give these dogs a decent chance at a 'forever' home.

The publicity around greyhound racing is awful though, and one would think that some bright spark might just highlight what is actually done on behalf of retired dogs.

We all know what will happen if the activists and the compliant media are successful in getting the greyhounds banned. Next up will be jumps racing, then all horse racing. 

I'm amazed they don't turn their attention to rugby, which has horrendous injury stats and deaths every year. People often seem more concerned about injuries to animals than to humans.

[Walt]

8 hours ago, Freda said:

Despite my love of the jumping horse, watching the rag-tag mob scrambling over tatty fences at Hawera was depressing.   It can't be long before the jumping is finished altogether, it's already gone in the south.

So, in reply to your [ I suspect ] tongue-in-cheek comment,  if we have to watch and/or compete in poly racing, it needs to be rewarded appropriately at least.

Dumbing down industry-day stakes I find inexplicable

As remarked upon elsewhere, Entain has come along and said, here, have some more money.  But their front-men seem to be as oblivious as our own management to the need to foster and encourage involvement at the bottom.

 

I missed the Hawera Jumps on Sunday which was my bad as I'm also a big fan of jumps racing. 

With the ongoing decline in jumps racing here it's vital the jumps product we do get to see it's a decent one. Last thing we need is a poor product that does nothing even for the fans of jumps racing. 

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Walt said:

I missed the Hawera Jumps on Sunday which was my bad as I'm also a big fan of jumps racing. 

With the ongoing decline in jumps racing here it's vital the jumps product we do get to see it's a decent one. Last thing we need is a poor product that does nothing even for the fans of jumps racing. 

With Auckland, Wellington and ChCh all currently out of action for jumps racing of any scale, it is becoming pretty much a country based format.

[Huey]

43 minutes ago, Doomed said:

With Auckland, Wellington and ChCh all currently out of action for jumps racing of any scale, it is becoming pretty much a country based format.

Which it probably should have been all along, the jumps trainers probably should have got behind centralising the racing at a venue solely for winter or jumps racing , but that was never going to happen self interest takes centre place in all aspects of NZ racing.

[Doomed]

29 minutes ago, Huey said:

Which it probably should have been all along, the jumps trainers probably should have got behind centralising the racing at a venue solely for winter or jumps racing , but that was never going to happen self interest takes centre place in all aspects of NZ racing.

Paeroa?

[Huey]

11 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Paeroa?

Could have been there , anywhere they had the flexiblity to shape the course and weren't at the mercy of the clubs. i.e. Ellerslie etc

[TAB For Ever]

5 hours ago, Doomed said:

With Auckland, Wellington and ChCh all currently out of action for jumps racing of any scale, it is becoming pretty much a country based format.

Not to mention two of the main jumps courses going forward.....Te Aroha [ Great Northern] and Hastings. Throw in Te Rapa and there seems plenty to host a 'nearly dead' aspect of  NZ racing .

Down to 44 races now from 66 last year and it was 122 a few years back.

Even today folk on here are pointing the blame for this.....IMO the administrators have given it their best shot to keep it going .IMO it has been a reluctance of trainers firstly being not keen to put the extra work into jumpers[ a few exceptions]. Then the Owners unwilling to invest ,especially if trainers not keen. Then all the racing folk who say they love jumps but in recent years few went to watch and even less wagered on them.

Years ago when the South jumpers started declining nothing was done , and tracks such as Riverton and Washdyke who hosted them lost out...it hurt their futures !

And administrators have tried to push it .Southern racing had a real enthusiast [Andre Klein ] involved.He ended up going back to the UK and now high up in Cheltenham Jumps club after doing real well at another jumps course/club.

[Freda]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Not to mention two of the main jumps courses going forward.....Te Aroha [ Great Northern] and Hastings. Throw in Te Rapa and there seems plenty to host a 'nearly dead' aspect of  NZ racing .

Down to 44 races now from 66 last year and it was 122 a few years back.

Even today folk on here are pointing the blame for this.....IMO the administrators have given it their best shot to keep it going .IMO it has been a reluctance of trainers firstly being not keen to put the extra work into jumpers[ a few exceptions]. Then the Owners unwilling to invest ,especially if trainers not keen. Then all the racing folk who say they love jumps but in recent years few went to watch and even less wagered on them.

Years ago when the South jumpers started declining nothing was done , and tracks such as Riverton and Washdyke who hosted them lost out...it hurt their futures !

And administrators have tried to push it .Southern racing had a real enthusiast [Andre Klein ] involved.He ended up going back to the UK and now high up in Cheltenham Jumps club after doing real well at another jumps course/club.

You are correct wrt Andre Klein.   Jumps racing down here lost a passionate advocate when he departed.

[Shad]

17 hours ago, Walt said:

I missed the Hawera Jumps on Sunday which was my bad as I'm also a big fan of jumps racing. 

With the ongoing decline in jumps racing here it's vital the jumps product we do get to see it's a decent one. Last thing we need is a poor product that does nothing even for the fans of jumps racing. 

Remember back in the day, they used to jump the sod wall in the great Weston steeplechase, another iconic race of the era that was just lost in time, very sad to see the jumping game disappear from the deep south, these day the jumps that are left seen to be much smaller, to be fair there probably more dangerous than the bigger ones of old, they had to actually to steady sight  an leap the bigger ones,the smaller one they just pop over albeit alot quicker, hence some horses get a little cocky, just a few of my thoughts.

[Murray Fish]

18 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

And administrators have tried to push it .Southern racing had a real enthusiast [Andre Klein ] involved.He ended up going back to the UK and now high up in Cheltenham Jumps club after doing real well at another jumps course/club.

pity he was such a arsehole... the reason so many no long go to ORC

[Murray Fish]

On 21/05/2024 at 11:05 AM, Doomed said:

 just because they start an hour later than normal. Weird.

i presume that extra hour kicks them into a more popular betting window...

[Freda]

21 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

pity he was such a arsehole... the reason so many no long go to ORC

Really?  I always found him very personable and helpful.  Obviously I wasn't privy to financial and other dealings wrt club or Gallop South business.