Joe Kidd Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: The one thing I don't like is one barn having so many runners in a big race it just opens up the team driving aspect too much for me..lead trail stable mate.. passing Lane ..your in a no win situation if you have a horse in the race, your fighting a team of horses not individual horses. I'll get hammered for this, but I see it all the time in classic races and not many big races excite me anymore apart from the square gaiters. One thingI would love to see is the passing Lane done away with....lead and hand up so meekly would become redundant, the pressure would be on all the time and drivers would have to start thinking rather than taking the easy option. Interesting perspective and with some merit Flagship. Small moments during races almost always end in big moments at the end of the race. I'm not a big fan of multiple family members driving in the same race. It leaves the door wide open to less competitive driving at key moments which influence the outcome. Here's a hypothetical example. I own a horse in the Derby. It's drawn badly so dropping back and looping the field for a better position at a later stage if the race is the prudent action. When to move is absolutely critical. If a dominant stable at the sharp end refuse to surrender position, I'm left posted and it's race and dream over. I know that and the dominant stable know that. It's huge and my seasons plans can go down the shitter in seconds. The dominant stable however don't have that enormous dilemma especially if they have multiple runners. One will generally hand up without the normally very competitive driver not even batting an eye lid. The result of the race was decided right there. It's a massive advantage over the other runners. In the 1980's Roy and BP used their numerical advantage to bully other contenders in open class races, especially any contender who was a threat to their dominance. If you doubt that, go ask the connections of Franco Ice and Dillon Dean etc. Using one of your multiple runners as a sacrificial lamb was routine. I have a catalog of races in mind where the sacrificial lamb ran a distance behind the field but safe in the knowledge the stablemate managed to nab the threat to the stable dominance late in the race. Hardly a level playing field. Thankfully we are at least spared this sort of activity these days. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Rangatira said: 19 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: 45 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said: Feature race meetings have become an All Stars benefit day Kinda reminds me when Tiger Woods dominated golf. They started tinkering with longer golf courses as he hit it to far, changing balls ,etc just to slow him down. Does AS dominance mean we will have to change the rules( a maximum no of horses from one barn per race)or racecourse(ie no passing lane)layouts. Etc Im with Joe on admiring and respecting what they do, however Empires do come to an end eventually. Hopefully there will be something left to resurrect when it happens 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 16 hours ago, Brodie said: Or is it that the almighty AllStars horses have scared all the other ones off and can not be bothered running for 5th at best???? Yes I think this is the reason and it is going to continue to happen continually when the bigger money is up!!! Yes I have brought this up at least once before but if you don’t think that this domination is going to permanently stuff harness racing in NZ, you have got your head in the sand!! Owners and trainers have had an absolute gutsful of the current situation and I can tell you now, that feature racing in NZ is in serious trouble over the next couple of years!! now i can't recall you having a solution for this, if you do can you please share it with us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 19 minutes ago, globederby12 said: It just reminds me of how Godolphin dominated racing in the UK when I lived There, punters and trainers were particularly peeved off that they were allowed to run a pace maker in the race to give their horses the tempo they needed, the pacemakers normally dropped out at the 2or 3 furlong mark when their job was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Have a look at Aussie racing. A few top trainers dominate, and they are on a roll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Have a look at Aussie racing. A few top trainers dominate, and they are on a roll? ockers just getting on with it and punting up each race has a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: now i can't recall you having a solution for this, if you do can you please share it with us all. Export the AllStars to Oz, I told you that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Brodie said: Export the AllStars to Oz, I told you that already. without their expressed approval ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakama Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Export the AllStars to Oz, I told you that already. Are you mad?? Only good thing about harness and you want to export them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Kakama said: Are you mad?? Only good thing about harness and you want to export them? Not mad, just want the harness sport to survive!, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakama Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said: Predictable result, turn it up leads, hands up to the fixer, then an Aaron white special, turn it up fills his hopples on the passing Lane...this son of wahhh wahh having his 10th start wahhh wahhh while we all wait 5 minutes for Aaron to call home 2nd, 3rd and 4th!! Not surd turn it up will have early gate speed....might be a couple others try for lead early....then take trail behind fav.....I think it could be trickery race 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kakama said: Not surd turn it up will have early gate speed....might be a couple others try for lead early....then take trail behind fav.....I think it could be trickery race Who really cares, yawn fest and no money to be made Maiden races will be more interesting Edited January 11, 2019 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Kakama said: Not surd turn it up will have early gate speed....might be a couple others try for lead early....then take trail behind fav.....I think it could be trickery race its got plenty of early lick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Nice drive star Galleria, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Brodie said: Export the AllStars to Oz, I told you that already. the mackerel licker will be exported Brodie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I have watched this race several times so can someone please explain the team driving that went on to enable Turn it Up win or did I blink and miss some subtle driving event that went on undetected to the naked eye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Harewood said: I have watched this race several times so can someone please explain the team driving that went on to enable Turn it Up win or did I blink and miss some subtle driving event that went on undetected to the naked eye. Tony herlihy took that option away last night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 23 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: Tony herlihy took that option away last night. the sign of a good family is when brother in laws are still talking after christmas day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Harewood said: I have watched this race several times so can someone please explain the team driving that went on to enable Turn it Up win or did I blink and miss some subtle driving event that went on undetected to the naked eye. Nah, your right, no team drivin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just watching race again, Natalie didn't seem interested in getting NZ cup winner into the race, usually a very aggressive driver 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Flagship uberalles said: Just watching race again, Natalie didn't seem interested in getting NZ cup winner into the race, usually a very aggressive driver Haven't see the race for numerous reasons. One was I just can't stomach the caller. If there is a question about potential dubious driving, I always ask if any said horse would have been driven differently had it been the sole stable representative in the race. If the answer is absolutely yes, it turns my blood cold. Same situation applies to horses handing up very meekly to a stablemate. If the leader would have fought tooth and nail to retain the lead if it was a non stable challenger but gifts the lead in a contrived manner to a stablemate, i put my cue back in the rack and walk away from the meeting. Many of these "races" are all about controlling every aspect of the event and stablemates are routinely used to ensure that is the status quo. These events are closer to a farce than an actual race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said: Haven't see the race for numerous reasons. One was I just can't stomach the caller. hit the guerin button Edited January 11, 2019 by Rangatira 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 23 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said: stablemates are routinely used to ensure that is the status quo. These events are closer to a farce than an actual race. Last race at Nelson yesterday? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Harewood said: Last race at Nelson yesterday? some stable choreographers better than others 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rangatira said: some stable choreographers better than others Previous form? Helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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