south island apprentice jockeys

[the galah]

i've been watching the south island gallops and i wonder whether sometimes the apprentice jockeys are just riding to instructions and that trainers are telling whatever you do, don't do this or that.

either that or some are as bad as i have ever seen.

race 1 at invercargill,friendofthedevil .i guess the apprentice was under instructions to not move until they turned for home. it went from the perfect 1/1 position and travelling great with 600m to gor,then  waited till halfway down the straight,some 10 lengths from the leader and finally being asked to go.

soemthing seems wrong when they get ridden so bad. I just not sure the reason for it?

Edited May 11 by the galah

[mikeynz]

31 minutes ago, the galah said:

i've been watching the south island gallops and i wonder whether sometimes the apprentice jockeys are just riding to instructions and that trainers are telling whatever you do, don't do this or that.

either that or some are as bad as i have ever seen.

race 1 at invercargill,friendofthedevil .i guess the apprentice was under instructions to not move until they turned for home. it went from the perfect 1/1 position and travelling great with 600m to gor,then  waited till halfway down the straight,some 10 lengths from the leader and finally being asked to go.

soemthing seems wrong when they get ridden so bad. I just not sure the reason for it?

Maybe the trainers could ride them instead.

 

[curious]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

Maybe the trainers could ride them instead.

 

Not enough room in the sauna for many of them and quite a few already get a pension and wouldn't need the extra money.

[the galah]

I remmeber the days when the likes of lisa allpress would ride at invercargill and would start improving with 800m to go then really push them along from the 600m .She and one or two other north island jockeys used to win a lot of races that way.

for them it all was about forward momentum.

but you look at most of those races today,not one jockey is doing that. most of them just sit there,then with about 400m to go ask their horses to go but the track seems too wet to accelerate much and they miss the boat unless they are in the first 2 or 3.

i miss having those north island jockeys riding down there as at least you knew if you backed one that lost, it lost because it wasn't good enough.

those were the days.

[Chief Stipe]

 

[Chief Stipe]

Didn't look to be going good enough when it needed to improve.  

[Freda]

Didn't think so either. 

If you look he would have been 4-5 wide if he had elected to improve, he's young and inexperienced,  may have been scared to do that.

You can do that at Invercargill along Finlay Rd but likely no one has told him.

[SLB2.0]

The young rider who just rode Bella Mio - who is teaching her?

Stays on the inside, which is not where you want to be, and barely hits the horse.

I get that she's a 4kg claimer, but she's on the favourite, and punters keep doing their dough on these poor SI apprentices. But.... you know what you're going to get at least.

[SLB2.0]

And then she goes and wins

[curious]

Geez give her a break. Te Akau are mentoring her. She's had 44 raceday rides and a <10% strike rate this season. Tidy and promising rider for mine and a lovely and respectful young woman to boot.

Edited Friday at 03:27 AM by curious

[SLB2.0]

Never questioned her personality.

Her ride in the following race was much better, and punters who took the shorts for Bello Mio are probably wondering why she didn't give her every chance to win. That's the sole purpose of a jockey right? We don't ask for much else.

[curious]

22 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Never questioned her personality.

Her ride in the following race was much better, and punters who took the shorts for Bello Mio are probably wondering why she didn't give her every chance to win. That's the sole purpose of a jockey right? We don't ask for much else.

I take it you backed it?

 

[SLB2.0]

15 minutes ago, curious said:

I take it you backed it?

 

That's irrelevant.... if jockeys don't give their mount every chance to win, they're subject to questioning.

[curious]

Did you consider the horse might not have been good enough? What did you have it priced at? I had it at $12 and unbackable by a long shot.

[Chief Stipe]

Basically if you draw 1 on a rated heavy 10 track you have zero options if the inside is a heavy 12.

[Murray Fish]

[curious]

17 hours ago, SLB2.0 said:

That's irrelevant.... if jockeys don't give their mount every chance to win, they're subject to questioning.

BELLO MIO (H Hassman) - When questioned regarding performance, rider advised that the gelding never
travelled well and was disappointing.

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, curious said:

BELLO MIO (H Hassman) - When questioned regarding performance, rider advised that the gelding never
travelled well and was disappointing.

That's how it looked to me.  If a horse draws one on a Heavy 10 then at some stage you need to use some energy to get off the fence and find better ground (assuming the inside is off).  The horse didn't look to be travelling well enough to do that at any stage.  LOL if the Jockey had starting riding hard a long way out @SLB2.0 might have been happier!

[SLB2.0]

Do you think the horse wasn't performing well because it was on the inside, where the track was much deeper, and it never left the inside?

Do you think if she made any effort to get off the inside into the better ground, the horse might have been happier and run better?

Do you think, because the horse wasn't even touched until halfway down the straight, that the horse thought it was simply going for a light training jog.

We will never know because not one ounce of effort was made on that horse by the jockey.

[Chief Stipe]

I've looked at the race again.  Bello Mio was going that well from the get go.  It had no opportunity to get off the fence until turning for home and even then it was going well enough to move out.  It would have lost a couple of lengths doing so before it got to better ground and would have had not chance of getting to the ground that the winner finished on.  Nothing worse than average ex-Jockeys bagging an apprentice for no reason.  From my observation the horse was only plugging the whole way!

In the next race Hayley Hassman's mount draw 12 and she rode it perfectly.

 

[SLB2.0]

Correction - bagging the ride, not the jockey. There is a difference.

And didn't you condone a competition all about bagging rides? Don't be a hypocrite Chief, you know I have no time for them.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Do you think the horse wasn't performing well because it was on the inside, where the track was much deeper, and it never left the inside?

 

It couldn't hold its position in the first instance even when those drawn to its immediate outside could.  It had no chance to get off the rail until turning for home.  How do you know the inside was "much deeper" leading up to the home turn?

11 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Do you think if she made any effort to get off the inside into the better ground, the horse might have been happier and run better?

Hassman didn't have an opportunity to do that until turning for home.  It would have lost lengths even if it was going good enough to get to allegedly better ground.  Which by the look of it was in the car park!

12 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Do you think, because the horse wasn't even touched until halfway down the straight, that the horse thought it was simply going for a light training jog.

The horse hadn't been going very well the whole trip.  I can't understand why it was favourite.  Its best races of late have been on Good tracks and it has only been able to manage one race a month.  Sure it won on a Heavy 10 at Matamata but that was 2 years and 4 months ago.  Yes it ran second over 1000m at its previous start at Riccarton but one could argue that wasn't a Heavy 10.

23 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

We will never know because not one ounce of effort was made on that horse by the jockey.

The horse wasn't going well enough.  I'd argue that the fact Hassman didn't ride the crap out of it shows she has some horsemanship skills.  If the horse felt flat and wasn't responding to her urgings then why flog it just to satisfy the grandstand critics?

[SLB2.0]

What urgings? She doesn't move a muscle until the race is over.

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Correction - bagging the ride, not the jockey. There is a difference.

 

Come on @SLB2.0 you are bagging the Jockey don't try and draw a distinction.  You are being hyper-critical of her ride i.e. the decisions she made.  The difference is I don't see did as wrong.  The horse wasn't up to it on the day.  

18 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

And didn't you condone a competition all about bagging rides? Don't be a hypocrite Chief, you know I have no time for them.

Didn't you read my comment about the competition proposal?  Hardly hypocritical - it was my comment in response to the proposal that probably kiboshed the idea.  As for having no time for hypocrites haven't you just kissed and made up to one so you can post in the echo chamber?  

Yes I will critique a bad ride if a horse wasn't given every chance and/or decisions were made that eliminated its chances but that wasn't the case in my opinion with Bello Mio.  I'd say Hassman has more talent than some of the ex-Jockeys bagging her ride.

[SLB2.0]

No, I'm critiquing the ride, not the jockey. I have said numerous times her winning ride in the following race was good.