Delta Bro Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Click on the link below. Would Bernard Saundry be saying what he says if he wasn't on the NZTR payroll? Newshub Report and Video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) We had Bernard down here last Friday and it is clear he is just flogging the line he has to. Every tough question was met with either 'the status quo is not an option' or 'we are going broke' He had no constructive responses or justification for the proposals. Yesterday we had another meeting with Mark Patterson an NZ First member who was also clearly under instructions that he was not to sympathise. On the way home i was thinking about 'the status quo is not an option' and emailed the following to my co presidents, Patterson, Maureen Pugh, Michael Pitman and Bernard 'Good morning everyone, As I drove back from our clubs meeting with Mark this morning I thought of this mantra of the Messara Report and the NZTR report 'the Status Quo is not an option'. We heard this a hundred times from Bernard last week and from all these journalists flogging the Messara tripe and of course from those behind the scenes pushing the agenda(and we hear it every time someone wants radically change an accepted process in life - usually someone on the public payroll) My question though is this from the point of view of the West Coast Clubs - Why is the status quo not an option? We are not the problem in NZ Racing. We are happily going along providing product that our supporters, many from far flung places, want to turn up to see. We are not broke(though maybe not far away in some cases) and our remaining committee retain their enthusiasm to 'go another round'(ie to race on). We and our facilities cost the NZ racing industry absolute zero and our net efforts in obtaining sponsorship, maintaining(for free) our properties and organising our racedays produce far more for the NZ industry than we get out of it. And most of all our public want to attend. What have those doing the bleating in this saga(mainly in the Waikato) done to change their status quo? From where I sit absolutely nothing other than get behind this agenda to destroy the fabric of NZ country racing. They are the ones living beyond their means that are providing product that their customers show little interest in and yet all the while sucking the NZ industry dry financially. The status quo bloody well IS an option Brian Molloy' To his credit Bernard this morning thanked me for my input and the opportunity to meet last week Edited February 27, 2019 by Reefton 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Never liked Status Quo much anyway - more of a Deep Purple man myself 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark D said: Never liked Status Quo much anyway - more of a Deep Purple man myself Well as you have(I think - didn't you say they should 'embrace change' a couple of weeks back?) shown in the past you are from an area or a club that has had a habit of getting huge amounts of industry money and pissing it up against the wall. So in the case of your club no the status quo is not an option because they are hoping to get a whole heap more industry money out of this Messara plan and piss all that up against the wall as well. And when they have blown all that where are they going to look for another handout? Because as sure as eggs they will blow it all and need more dosh and if there are no country clubs to screw where will it come from? The big clubs and their excesses(along with other factors like the idiots at NZTR and NZRB) got the industry into this mess. It is about time they faced up to their inadequacies and stopped trying to blame everyone else for their problems 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 agree Reefton - too many 'yesmen' have got the hands of Waikato up their chutney's ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Spot on, Reefton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, Reefton said: Well as you have(I think - didn't you say they should 'embrace change' a couple of weeks back?) shown in the past you are from an area or a club that has had a habit of getting huge amounts of industry money and pissing it up against the wall. So in the case of your club no the status quo is not an option because they are hoping to get a whole heap more industry money out of this Messara plan and piss all that up against the wall as well. And when they have blown all that where are they going to look for another handout? Because as sure as eggs they will blow it all and need more dosh and if there are no country clubs to screw where will it come from? The big clubs and their excesses(along with other factors like the idiots at NZTR and NZRB) got the industry into this mess. It is about time they faced up to their inadequacies and stopped trying to blame everyone else for their problems Just an attempt at humour Reefton - albeit a poor one. Anyone who has read my posts on here and previously on Racechat know that. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The "status quo is not an option" is an old trick reverted to when you have no argument. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark D said: Just an attempt at humour Reefton - albeit a poor one. Anyone who has read my posts on here and previously on Racechat know that. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The "status quo is not an option" is an old trick reverted to when you have no argument. yeah well sorry for the reaction if that is the case. But I am finding myself spending hours on racing issues when the industry doesn't pay my mortgage or fill my guts(well maybe Consensus has been helping a bit lately but that is an exception not the rule). I am sick to death of telling people like Bernard what the problem is (well one of the problems)and all the while knowing they will go back to Wellington and trot out the same BS line. Otaki the other day - oncourse turnover $108k with a Group one and $375k total stakes for Gods sake! Wairoa the next day $111k with $112k in stakes. What the F... is going on in this industry? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 45 minutes ago, Reefton said: yeah well sorry for the reaction if that is the case. But I am finding myself spending hours on racing issues when the industry doesn't pay my mortgage or fill my guts(well maybe Consensus has been helping a bit lately but that is an exception not the rule). I am sick to death of telling people like Bernard what the problem is (well one of the problems)and all the while knowing they will go back to Wellington and trot out the same BS line. Otaki the other day - oncourse turnover $108k with a Group one and $375k total stakes for Gods sake! Wairoa the next day $111k with $112k in stakes. What the F... is going on in this industry? I actually thought that Bernard seemed a decent bloke, he must be sick of peddling the same tired old b/s all the time. But, wouldn't you think that at some point, he must stop and think, hang on, there has to be a more logical forward plan than this? Your brother has repeatedly pointed out that when Winston's largesse was dished out to us, we wasted it - and very quickly things returned to woeful. The increase in stakes - held up now to be the saviour of all things- actually achieved diddly squat for the industry overall. And, as you have pointed out, any funds realised from trashing community racing [ and it will be stuff all ] will quickly be swallowed up - pissed against the wall, to quote - and there we will be again. How's the Cambridge allweather going? The Waikato clubs are scrapping amongst themselves...and when [ if ] the Greenfields project is completed, there has to be a real chance it will be smack bang in Cambridge suburbia before long. The allweather touted for Riccarton, has a mountain of hurdles to climb, resource consent and Ecan approval for starters before it can get underway...and as for Shane Jones' lolly scramble, I have to have doubts as to whether it will fall our way. Look elsewhere, Bernard, because what's under your nose ain't too impressive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I thought I read a headline in the Informant last week (just peering at it in the TAB) that Waikato RC had pulled out of the Cambridge track, Geenfields call it what you want. Didn't surprise me in the least. Of course KFE is involved but as they say even a broken clock is right twice a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mark D said: I thought I read a headline in the Informant last week (just peering at it in the TAB) that Waikato RC had pulled out of the Cambridge track, Geenfields call it what you want. Didn't surprise me in the least. Of course KFE is involved but as they say even a broken clock is right twice a day. Yes I asked Bernard what he had to say about that at our meeting on Friday. As with any sticky questions not a terrible lot (though perhaps he might have actually said 'the status quo is not an option' - he said that to most questions). Needless to say Bernard left in no doubt about my thoughts on the big clubs in this country of ours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Agreed re the bludging bigger clubs Reefton. We have a large club Auckland which has a war chest of funds due to selling property but yet NZ Racing provides them with $500k to be wasted on two races which are basically sweep stakes. The night in question appears to be one where everyone goes to get pissed so why not NZ Racing chuck them $50k instead, save $450k then allow everyone on the night to have a decent piss up.? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Two very clued-up posters have repeatedly pointed out that funding is completely out of proportion to what is actually earned, raceday by raceday. I think most would agree for a bit extra to be retained for black-type stakes top up, but not at the cost of devastating the industry overall whic has happened for years now. Some time ago it was shown that smaller clubs were being selectively starved of their rightful turnover dues to prop up the bigger ones. It has been said, over and over, and neatly shown by Reefton above, that the small clubs are NOT the problem. Messara rightly woke up to the insolvency of NZ racing, and put forward a plan to generate funds to upgrade the product to attract more international betting. But, he was given flawed advice, there won't be anywhere near the funds required unless Avondale can be cashed up, and what chance of a slick new racing product when Te Rapa [ for one ] is scrapping about Greenfields - which isn't even a racetrack, I believe, just a potential modern training complex. The allweather at Cambridge is a different issue altogether, and has also struck a slowdown, I am told. So, what show is there at all? without funds from SOMEwhere to provide an upgraded track model, there won't be any extra betting generated, it's in free fall now, and the composition of MAC - Dean excepted - looks anything but ' impartial '. The RB is continuing to screw the product, Aus punters can't use our TAB [ why would they want to..? ] and plain common sense is ignored by those at the helm. I've been around racing longer than many and I can't ever recall so much waste and so much utter stupidity. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 20 hours ago, Mark D said: Never liked Status Quo much anyway - more of a Deep Purple man myself Send Bernard the video of Status Quo's 'Pictures of Matchstick Men' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Freda said: So, what show is there at all? without funds from SOMEwhere to provide an upgraded track model, there won't be any extra betting generated, it's in free fall now, and the composition of MAC - Dean excepted - looks anything but ' impartial '. The RB is continuing to screw the product, Aus punters can't use our TAB [ why would they want to..? ] and plain common sense is ignored by those at the helm. Yes Bill Birnie's appointment to the NZRB board has it seems hastened their progress to his specialty subject - bankruptcy. No doubt the same will apply to MAC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Bro Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Last night I showed my mum, now aged ninety-one, the Newshub (TV3) item on the raceday at Wairoa. It was very picturesque. She was outraged and asked me what possesses people to want to close down such racedays and what gives them the right to do it? I needed a succinct reply. What should I have said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Delta Bro said: . ....asked me what possesses people to want to close down such racedays and what gives them the right to do it? I needed a succinct reply. What should I have said? 'stupidity' is the word you are after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I was going to say arrogance, but that'll do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Both words are accurate descriptors but need an adjective probably starting with "F" and ending with "G" in front of them. We have seen the beginning of the end and now are about to witness the ending of it. For me, I think that if dates are taken from clubs like Reefton and Wairoa to race on their own courses, they should refuse to race elsewhere, sit tight and deploy their community resources in their communities in the mean time, perhaps consider running a picnic non-TAB meeting (since they don't get any of the TAB funds they generate anyway), and watch the above mentioned end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 28/02/2019 at 8:11 PM, Bloke said: Agreed re the bludging bigger clubs Reefton. We have a large club Auckland which has a war chest of funds due to selling property but yet NZ Racing provides them with $500k to be wasted on two races which are basically sweep stakes. The night in question appears to be one where everyone goes to get pissed so why not NZ Racing chuck them $50k instead, save $450k then allow everyone on the night to have a decent piss up.? Good point that is about 6 industry days worth of stakes money funding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Grassroots racing is where it all started, can't understand why they would want to take it away, for me it has much more appeal than the snooty metropolitan racing, with totally different atmosphere, very sad times, but good on them for putting up a fight, let's hope sanity prevails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) So the Informant reports that the Waikato, Cambridge and Te Awamutu clubs have an agreement to get together to run a feasibility study on the Greenfields project - which I thought that Waikato had already done. It seems that the driving force for Cambridge at least is that they are busting at the seams. Seems a particularly expensive way to solve this problem and of course a misuse of general industry and taxpayer money to fix this. "Bloodstock expert" Michael Wallace opines in another piece that Waikato's original decision passes up a great opportunity for the benefit of "breeding and racing" in the Waikato and that (drum roll please) interested parties should "embrace change" or if not shouldn't shouldn't whinge or moan or seek financial support. I have dealt with Michael in the past and know him to be an astute judge of the thoroughbred but this is a facile argument which is misdirected. Those clubs who run the risk of losing their land, licences etc etc under the Messara report are not the ones who have been receiving the subsidies that he refers to. They do not cost other clubs any money. The ones who currently do Auckland, Waikato, Manawatu, Wellington etc etc will continue to be subsidised but from an every decreasing pool. It is parochialism but the parochialists are the ones in the mirror. Edited March 1, 2019 by Mark D 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 17 hours ago, curious said: Both words are accurate descriptors but need an adjective probably starting with "F" and ending with "G" in front of them. We have seen the beginning of the end and now are about to witness the ending of it. For me, I think that if dates are taken from clubs like Reefton and Wairoa to race on their own courses, they should refuse to race elsewhere, sit tight and deploy their community resources in their communities in the mean time, perhaps consider running a picnic non-TAB meeting (since they don't get any of the TAB funds they generate anyway), and watch the above mentioned end. I reckon you might be right. And I have suspected that for a day or two. Bottom line is they are living beyond their means and until they recognise that there can be no meaningful improvement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Reefton said: I reckon you might be right. And I have suspected that for a day or two. Bottom line is they are living beyond their means and until they recognise that there can be no meaningful improvement The first race meeting I went to was an Amberley RC equalisator meeting. I went home (we lived next door) with half a crown, was hooked, and gave a lot of my life to the TR breeding and racing game. Learned a lot of skills from builder volunteers there building stands etc. I no longer have that interest thanks to the powers that be. That said, I'd quite likely still rock up at Reefton or Wairoa the night before the races for a beer and some whitebait or crays. Probably with a horse going round the next day for a 1k sweep. Time to leave the 10 or 12 favoured clubs and tracks to stand on their own 4 legs and put some heart back in the game. I doubt I'll ever race even a share of one at those places. Just re-read a personal hand written letter received from the president of the Wairoa club following the last time I raced one there. Different world. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Bro Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 Someone I watch on YouTube was asked what advice he would give his Prime Minister. I think his advice was applicable to those who run racing. “Think through how things could go terribly wrong even if you have good intentions. That’s the mark of someone who’s wise. Its way easier for things to go wrong than it is for them to go right and maybe it is more important that we think carefully about how things don’t go terribly wrong than we are concerned with making sure that they go right. Hell is a long way down and we can only make things so much better. Can you think out any ways that your ideas might not work out so well and how will you mitigate against that. One of the things the wise know is the probability that your well meaning intervention will have the positive outcome you intend and no other is zero. The highest probability is that it will kick back against you and make things worse. So you bloody well better be sure when you implement your well intentioned intervention that you lay out a measurement strategy to determine what the consequences of that interventions are because they are very unlikely to be an improvement. That’s especially the case if the system is already working well because if it’s already at 85% optimal capacity moving it up another five percent is really hard, whereas making it work fifty percent worse, it’s like any fool can manage that. So when things are working be very cautious about what you do to radically fix things because you don’t know what the consequence of your intervention is going to be. First, do no harm. Put you own house in order. You are not going to hurt anyone doing that. Then maybe put out your tentacle and tap something in the real world, gently.” You’re welcome to guess who I was watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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