Vision for thoroughbred racing

[Freda]

We have had heaps of discussion and criticism here and elsewhere, and I guess we are hoping that RITA can pull a rabbit out of the hat wrt funding.

 But I don't see too much agreement, or real lets-do-this policy or enthusiasm going forward.

If we assume that racing is not going to die completely ( and it may just do that) - what positive or constructive ideas do people possess?

[Huey]

the most constructive idea I can offer is to get some persons with an interest and understanding  of the thoroughbred  code  - owned, breed, raced, punter, buyer/seller,trained ,worked in stable into leadership roles at NZTR to sort out handicapping,programming,calendar,studbook,future workforce etc the list goes on.

 They would struggle  to do worse than has been historically done. 

Some personnel who aren't just looking for the shortcut in everything, the type that care enough to know if racing is gone it"ll leave a large gap in their lives. 

[mumbles]

IMO a new horse racing and equestrian centre needs to be built.

It needs to provide many tracks with various surfaces for training purposes and at least 2/3 raceday tracks with various surfaces

Stabling for many horses and accomodation for staff

Vets and feed suppliers etc should be on course along with accomodation for visiting trainers etc.

Swimming pools and water walkers need to be on course as well as other methods i can't think of.

Purchase plenty of land providing opportunities for hill work and walking tracks for horses.

Plenty of other stuff required also'

Very expensive but do it once and do it right.

Just my thoughts.

[barryb]

Racing needs to be over quicker.

3 hours on a Saturday afternoon 1-4pm, 20 min intervals. Summer time it needs to be 5-8pm. Rugby needed 7s, Cricket 20/20, Racing needs 3hr Twillight.

Its a bore fest spending the whole day watching it, there is no life or atmosphere on track, absolutely zero to draw anyone along other than those close to the cemetery.

Plus a jumps carnival stretching the country, put up some decent money every Saturday, jumps only 3 North and 1 South Meeting for the month of July, every race jumps or highweight. with points and entry into the final big one on the last Saturday.

Scrap these tracks to consolidate costs: Pukekohe, Te Teko, Te Aroha, Te Rapa, Te Awamutu, Rotorua, Gisborne, Waipukarau, Hawera, Trentham, all West Coast tracks, Winton, Gore & Ascot Park.  Upgrade Avondale, build a new track at Cambridge, Upgrade Wairoa & race more often, upgrade Tauherenikau & Waverley, modernise Otaki & Foxton, Modernise Timaru & Riverton. 

Demolish the clubs & establish regional hubs professionally run businesses with supporting volunteers, Northern, CD & Southern Racing.

Set up Ellerslie to race every 2nd Saturday all yr round. 

Engage an experienced marketing company to support the heavy promotion and development of Summer racing 

[mumbles]

Should be a Premier (50k min) meeting in the upper north twice a month,one in the lower NI and one in the SI.

Ellerslie should be utilized more,agree 100%.

Barryb,after those suggestions on closing tracks i think many will add you to the Folau list of going below.

Not me.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

Racing needs to be over quicker.

3 hours on a Saturday afternoon 1-4pm, 20 min intervals. Summer time it needs to be 5-8pm. Rugby needed 7s, Cricket 20/20, Racing needs 3hr Twillight.

Its a bore fest spending the whole day watching it, there is no life or atmosphere on track, absolutely zero to draw anyone along other than those close to the cemetery.

Plus a jumps carnival stretching the country, put up some decent money every Saturday, jumps only 3 North and 1 South Meeting for the month of July, every race jumps or highweight. with points and entry into the final big one on the last Saturday.

Scrap these tracks to consolidate costs: Pukekohe, Te Teko, Te Aroha, Te Rapa, Te Awamutu, Rotorua, Gisborne, Waipukarau, Hawera, Trentham, all West Coast tracks, Winton, Gore & Ascot Park.  Upgrade Avondale, build a new track at Cambridge, Upgrade Wairoa & race more often, upgrade Tauherenikau & Waverley, modernise Otaki & Foxton, Modernise Timaru & Riverton. 

Demolish the clubs & establish regional hubs professionally run businesses with supporting volunteers, Northern, CD & Southern Racing.

Set up Ellerslie to race every 2nd Saturday all yr round. 

Engage an experienced marketing company to support the heavy promotion and development of Summer racing 

Can't agree with your track closures half them cost the industry next to nothing.

Love to see what kind of volunteer base you'd have after destroying racing in the communities.

Love your ideas of T20 type racing and promo of summer racing I can see that working well.

[Huey]

15 minutes ago, mumbles said:

Should be a Premier (50k min) meeting in the upper north twice a month,one in the lower NI and one in the SI.

Ellerslie should be utilized more,agree 100%.

Barryb,after those suggestions on closing tracks i think many will add you to the Folau list of going below.

Not me.

I'd like to see 15k stakes for all industry day races and no Saturday races outside of Open Handicaps racing for over $25k to support this , unless the club can come up with the extra stakes themselves. 

[barryb]

50 minutes ago, Huey said:

Can't agree with your track closures half them cost the industry next to nothing.

Love to see what kind of volunteer base you'd have after destroying racing in the communities.

Love your ideas of T20 type racing and promo of summer racing I can see that working well.

Yes I am the same on closing tracks, but am facing reality that the horse flesh is not there to support them anymore, you end up downgrading everyone with shit racing and smaller fields.

The community racing is coming to an end anyway Huey, the volunteer base is nearing 70-80 yrs of age, they are dropping away now.

Racing needs radical thinking and a complete shift from its current way to survive, holding onto yesteryear is not going to save it. Plenty are going to be pissed off and affected, I have never seen any industry reform without that happening.

The problem with racing is everyone wants something done as long as it doesn't affect them, finally racing does have some people who are keen to shift things along, there appears to be some clever people at RITA whom can do that, probably best to get in behind it or risk the racing game becoming extinct in 10yrs.

 

[barryb]

56 minutes ago, Huey said:

I'd like to see 15k stakes for all industry day races and no Saturday races outside of Open Handicaps racing for over $25k to support this , unless the club can come up with the extra stakes themselves. 

Unfortunately all that will do is downgrade racing even further, the stream of horses to Aus will become a flood, if anything leave industry days at $10k and pour money into Saturday to at least give us something quality to aim for & if your horse is good enough to get out of industry raing then it can race for decent stakes.

[barryb]

1 hour ago, mumbles said:

Should be a Premier (50k min) meeting in the upper north twice a month,one in the lower NI and one in the SI.

Ellerslie should be utilized more,agree 100%.

Barryb,after those suggestions on closing tracks i think many will add you to the Folau list of going below.

Not me.

Did you re-read what you posted, they are all huge costs with nothing that is going to support increased returns. The money to do that has to come from somewhere & like any business unless you grow your client base or returns they you have zero hope of developing what you are suggesting.

[mumbles]

56 minutes ago, barryb said:

Did you re-read what you posted, they are all huge costs with nothing that is going to support increased returns. The money to do that has to come from somewhere & like any business unless you grow your client base or returns they you have zero hope of developing what you are suggesting.

I would like to think that this would be part of a package that would be the result of intelligent racing people reconstucturing the racing game that would/could eventually lead to my suggestion becoming a reality.

[Freda]

3 hours ago, barryb said:

Racing needs to be over quicker.

3 hours on a Saturday afternoon 1-4pm, 20 min intervals. Summer time it needs to be 5-8pm. Rugby needed 7s, Cricket 20/20, Racing needs 3hr Twillight.

Its a bore fest spending the whole day watching it, there is no life or atmosphere on track, absolutely zero to draw anyone along other than those close to the cemetery.

Plus a jumps carnival stretching the country, put up some decent money every Saturday, jumps only 3 North and 1 South Meeting for the month of July, every race jumps or highweight. with points and entry into the final big one on the last Saturday.

Scrap these tracks to consolidate costs: Pukekohe, Te Teko, Te Aroha, Te Rapa, Te Awamutu, Rotorua, Gisborne, Waipukarau, Hawera, Trentham, all West Coast tracks, Winton, Gore & Ascot Park.  Upgrade Avondale, build a new track at Cambridge, Upgrade Wairoa & race more often, upgrade Tauherenikau & Waverley, modernise Otaki & Foxton, Modernise Timaru & Riverton. 

Demolish the clubs & establish regional hubs professionally run businesses with supporting volunteers, Northern, CD & Southern Racing.

Set up Ellerslie to race every 2nd Saturday all yr round. 

Engage an experienced marketing company to support the heavy promotion and development of Summer racing 

Love the ideas...however,.do you not think there can be a place for a few one-day clubs in the country areas in summer?  As long as there is no or little cost to the industry should they not be allowed to remain?

After all, country racing is very popular in Aus and supported by local bodies too as being valuable for the tourism dollar.

But all the rest, yes agree.

[curious]

13 minutes ago, mumbles said:

I would like to think that this would be part of a package that would be the result of intelligent racing people reconstucturing the racing game that would/could eventually lead to my suggestion becoming a reality.

Nice idea but when TR is struggling to generate enough revenue to cover half its stakes costs at the moment let alone anything else, how the hell is such a venture likely to cover operating costs, let alone recover the capital costs?

[Tonkatime!]

8 minutes ago, Freda said:

Love the ideas...however,.do you not think there can be a place for a few one-day clubs in the country areas in summer?  As long as there is no or little cost to the industry should they not be allowed to remain?

 

There should be as they are a great way to attract people to the sport. 

[Freda]

7 minutes ago, Tonkatime! said:

There should be as they are a great way to attract people to the sport. 

Yep, agree.

[Freda]

8 minutes ago, curious said:

Nice idea but when TR is struggling to generate enough revenue to cover half its stakes costs at the moment let alone anything else, how the hell is such a venture likely to cover operating costs, let alone recover the capital costs?

You're right of course....but I guess I'm taking the view that without some forward thinking the hole just gets dug more quickly.

What would you suggest, taking into account the reality of the revenue / costs situation?

[barryb]

34 minutes ago, Freda said:

Love the ideas...however,.do you not think there can be a place for a few one-day clubs in the country areas in summer?  As long as there is no or little cost to the industry should they not be allowed to remain?

After all, country racing is very popular in Aus and supported by local bodies too as being valuable for the tourism dollar.

But all the rest, yes agree.

I am suggesting leaving Taupo, Tauherenikau, Omakau, Motukarara as the holiday venues and occassional other times, the rest NO. The notion that they are good introductions to the sport is a fallacy & a myth that many talk about but the reality is far different I think.

The kind of People I have seen at Taupo or Tauherenikau over Xmas are not ever going to venture to another racing meeting throughout the yr, they are unlikely to open an account other than for the app on the day (never to be funded again) & they certainly are not going to venture inside a TAB which they perceive is full of gambling lowlifes and dropkicks, thats the image the TAB has to deal with to progress.

The best way to develop the client base is via horse ownership, invest time and money into progressive low cost ways to get people into a horse, think outside the square with funding etc, I can name 5 different options that should be considered but it would take some clever forward thinking people & some of the more greedy breeders taking a small hit for the sake of the industry.

 

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

I am suggesting leaving Taupo, Tauherenikau, Omakau, Motukarara as the holiday venues and occassional other times, the rest NO. The notion that they are good introductions to the sport is a fallacy & a myth that many talk about but the reality is far different I think.

The kind of People I have seen at Taupo or Tauherenikau over Xmas are not ever going to venture to another racing meeting throughout the yr, they are unlikely to open an account other than for the app on the day (never to be funded again) & they certainly are not going to venture inside a TAB which they perceive is full of gambling lowlifes and dropkicks, thats the image the TAB has to deal with to progress.

The best way to develop the client base is via horse ownership, invest time and money into progressive low cost ways to get people into a horse, think outside the square with funding etc, I can name 5 different options that should be considered but it would take some clever forward thinking people & some of the more greedy breeders taking a small hit for the sake of the industry.

 

You make a lot of rational sense in your posts, barryb.

?

[Huey]

2 hours ago, barryb said:

I am suggesting leaving Taupo, Tauherenikau, Omakau, Motukarara as the holiday venues and occassional other times, the rest NO. The notion that they are good introductions to the sport is a fallacy & a myth that many talk about but the reality is far different I think.

The kind of People I have seen at Taupo or Tauherenikau over Xmas are not ever going to venture to another racing meeting throughout the yr, they are unlikely to open an account other than for the app on the day (never to be funded again) & they certainly are not going to venture inside a TAB which they perceive is full of gambling lowlifes and dropkicks, thats the image the TAB has to deal with to progress.

The best way to develop the client base is via horse ownership, invest time and money into progressive low cost ways to get people into a horse, think outside the square with funding etc, I can name 5 different options that should be considered but it would take some clever forward thinking people & some of the more greedy breeders taking a small hit for the sake of the industry.

 

I don't agree Barry the TAB model has changed and many venues have become attractive to those punters you speak of to visit,  particularly since many don't focus on the beverage side anymore. 

[Huey]

4 hours ago, barryb said:

Unfortunately all that will do is downgrade racing even further, the stream of horses to Aus will become a flood, if anything leave industry days at $10k and pour money into Saturday to at least give us something quality to aim for & if your horse is good enough to get out of industry raing then it can race for decent stakes.

I don't think that's the case,  what I"m surmising is creating a sustainable model(perhaps this isn't exactly it,  but you get my drift). The point is aspirational stakes have been tried before and they are OK if they are sustainable but that's clearly not the case here.  If you boost up the base youre creating and supporting strong roots in the industry as the problems in NZ aren't just restricted to stake money they are far deeper than that and to fix that you need a decent base to begin with which is in desperate need of support at present. 

We have to accept  here we aren't ever gonna compete with Australia it's just not going to happen and anyone with a decent enough horse to go race in Australia will anyway.  No offence intended but NZ is to Aust. What the SI is to NZ racing but in a much worse way. 

 

[barryb]

As I said Huey, it’s an image they have to deal with to progress. 

Racings other challenge is how to get women more involved, it must find ways to get women having a flutter rather than Pokies or Lotto, again the key here is horse ownership, women are open to owning horses and the attraction of being on course dressed up. The future of on course racing rests with getting female interest much higher than it is currently, along with that comes bigger interest from kids etc.

None of this is that hard to implement, just takes a bit of thinking and effort.

[barryb]

9 minutes ago, Huey said:

I don't think that's the case,  what I"m surmising is creating a sustainable model(perhaps this isn't exactly it,  but you get my drift). The point is aspirational stakes have been tried before and they are OK if they are sustainable but that's clearly not the case here.  If you boost up the base youre creating and supporting strong roots in the industry as the problems in NZ aren't just restricted to stake money they are far deeper than that and to fix that you need a decent base to begin with which is in desperate need of support at present. 

We have to accept  here we aren't ever gonna compete with Australia it's just not going to happen and anyone with a decent enough horse to go race in Australia will anyway.  No offence intended but NZ is to Aust. What the SI is to NZ racing but in a much worse way. 

 

The only issue I have with what you say Huey is that if you downgrade NZ any further then you risk Australian interest in our product waning, right now they keep us afloat, the pools are the size they are thanks to Aussies, we just need to have that in the back of our minds.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Love the ideas...however,.do you not think there can be a place for a few one-day clubs in the country areas in summer?  As long as there is no or little cost to the industry should they not be allowed to remain?

After all, country racing is very popular in Aus and supported by local bodies too as being valuable for the tourism dollar.

But all the rest, yes agree.

There is absolutely a place for the once a year clubs, though they are now starting to disintegrate under the policy being implemented. 

What will happen and won't work imo is the centralise of these summer meetings to already struggling venues and the race days will lose their uniqueness,appeal and become just another day at the races , how thats supposed to get patrons interested is beyond me , they already have multiple opportunities to be exposed to the same experience and don't want a part of it  so why on earth would we keep dishing them up the same experience.

[Huey]

7 minutes ago, barryb said:

As I said Huey, it’s an image they have to deal with to progress. 

Racings other challenge is how to get women more involved, it must find ways to get women having a flutter rather than Pokies or Lotto, again the key here is horse ownership, women are open to owning horses and the attraction of being on course dressed up. The future of on course racing rests with getting female interest much higher than it is currently, along with that comes bigger interest from kids etc.

None of this is that hard to implement, just takes a bit of thinking and effort.

I like you have been to Ellerslie,Trentham, Te Rapa etc over the most popular periods and those venues have the better facilities for attracting women and in particular families but I have found over the past few years that interest has been waning despite the obviously better facilities, better stakes than that of the once a year venues in some cases in an alarming manner so my question is , do the families and women really want that experience or something else? 

[Huey]

8 minutes ago, barryb said:

The only issue I have with what you say Huey is that if you downgrade NZ any further then you risk Australian interest in our product waning, right now they keep us afloat, the pools are the size they are thanks to Aussies, we just need to have that in the back of our minds.

I understand what you mean Barry but what is the use pretending to them that our product is good enough for them, surely the best idea would be to get the product right so we don't have to play pretend every week to Australia to make them interested in our product. I guess we need to find where the real level of our product is at to have a sustainable future and to do that I think all participants need a fair go not just those at the very top cause thats where its heading and that looks so incredible boring to me.

Are those fields we are seeing on a Saturdays so good that they deserve to have prizemoney fo 2 to 3,4 times the amount raced for on say Industry days? Because the betting figures don't reflect that despite those meetings being held on the best day of the week for generating turnover.