Star Galleria

[globederby12]

I have a granddaughter who was involved in kids carts up North, through Nicky Chilcott. I think it was organised by the Butcher's, but is it a lead in for future drivers in the professional ranks, or do most drop out.?  Once at college my granddaughter lost touch with the sport due to other activitys even though she is from a horse racing family.

Anyone on here know much about the progress of the kids involved either North or South.

[Happy Sunrise]

9 minutes ago, globederby12 said:

I have a granddaughter who was involved in kids carts up North, through Nicky Chilcott. I think it was organised by the Butcher's, but is it a lead in for future drivers in the professional ranks, or do most drop out.?  Once at college my granddaughter lost touch with the sport due to other activitys even though she is from a horse racing family.

Anyone on here know much about the progress of the kids involved either North or South.

Seems pretty organised from what I have witnessed but I know nothing.

Pasketti, do you know? any insight to what is really going on?

[Flagship uberalles]

23 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

They just need to make a proper pathway for the young ones to come through in the north who will replace the great ones but that is just a minor part of the bigger picture.

The question is whether the bigger picture is taken care of. I thought it was with the development and increased stakes. Then they could redistribute money to areas where they needed it? Am I wrong?

No you're quite right happy, no direction in the north, all that land that they have developed and a humungous loss, only a bunch of morons can't make money on property in over priced dorkland! I was pleased with the fields they had on Friday, at Least they were full competitive fields and racing for good money ..... but you wonder how much longer the money will last.

[Happy Sunrise]

4 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

but you wonder how much longer the money will last.

So were does the negativity Pasketti talks about turn into reality?

Who knows the truth or better yet who can tell me where to read about it all?

[Flagship uberalles]

7 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

So were does the negativity Pasketti talks about turn into reality?

Who knows the truth or better yet who can tell me where to read about it all?

There is a fair bit of info online and bits and bobs in the herald, but most is Chinese whispers..... they do reckon the stakes level is sustainable despite the financial difficulty....go figure!!

[Happy Sunrise]

12 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

they do reckon the stakes level is sustainable

Here is hoping.

[Pasketti]

9 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Seems pretty organised from what I have witnessed but I know nothing.

Pasketti, do you know? any insight to what is really going on?

I don’t have any direct dealings with kids side of things however from where I sit in this game the issue is they need decent places for the juniors to work.... hardly any decent jobs that bring opportunities and a semi decent income. Unless you come from a family back round it’s going to be very difficult to get your career going up here. The ones that do deserve a pat on the back it’s pretty tough going 

 

9 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

So were does the negativity Pasketti talks about turn into reality?

Who knows the truth or better yet who can tell me where to read about it all?

So many improvements could be made.... the $ side of things I don’t know....we just battle on the way things are and hope that things get a lot better. Putting in 100% effort regardless of the other side factors not in our control

[Brodie]

Sorry but how can any business continue when there have been too many mistakes made?

An $80 million loss is unbelievable really.

Not sure where the money for the stakes are gong to come from for Auckland?

The Auckland apartment has been a total eff up from basically when it started and how on earth could you possibly stuff up so badly in Auckland market?

Eventually  there are going to so few trainers in the North that they will not be able to hold races.

You have got your head in the sand if you believe that Auckland can get out of this shambles!

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Pasketti said:

the issue is they need decent places for the juniors to work.... hardly any decent jobs that bring opportunities and a semi decent income. Unless you come from a family back round it’s going to be very difficult to get your career going up here.

It is quite a hard game to crack but that is typical of any sporting profession in New Zealand. Small pool of participants and facilities. Plus, the longevity of harness racing drivers and trainers can be decades long which means little turnover (no pun intended). And the obvious thing is racing is not expanding at all so employment opportunities are stagnant.

1 hour ago, Pasketti said:

So many improvements could be made....

What are some you would like to see and do you have a channel to propose them?

I imagine the powers that be are distracted by the major looming (or already present) problems so little improvements won't even be in their sphere of thinking at the moment unless there is a solid management structure in place (which I also can't imagine because from afar harness has shown with simple matters that there is limited communication and systems)

 

1 hour ago, Pasketti said:

Putting in 100% effort regardless of the other side factors not in our control

Normally you can make large change by fixing the little things but from what I can see it is the bigger picture stuff which is unsettling for northern harness. I really have no knowledge  of who is in charge of it all.

Are harness people in the north fearful for the future?

Does HRNZ have overall authority? 

Is it possible the ATC could go insolvent? 

Does the ATC and HRNZ work together?

Does the ATC have a public future plan for racing in the north?

Does the Messara Report have any relevance for harness in the north? 

Where is Winny?

Why can't racing as a whole just copy the model which seems so successful in some states in Australia?

Do we need made for TV tracks in the north out in the country like Melton with training facilities attached to it and accept the reality of what racing is now?

I am full of questions because I don't know enough to really put forward solutions.

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Sorry but how can any business continue when there have been too many mistakes made?

An $80 million loss is unbelievable really.

Not sure where the money for the stakes are gong to come from for Auckland?

The Auckland apartment has been a total eff up from basically when it started and how on earth could you possibly stuff up so badly in Auckland market?

Eventually  there are going to so few trainers in the North that they will not be able to hold races.

You have got your head in the sand if you believe that Auckland can get out of this shambles!

I agree with you brodie.

What other business would increase expenditure like the ATC did recently ,with small stakes increases,while their business takes a huge financial hit. 

It appears just a face saving exercise to attempt limit the criticism by those currently running things.

There are so many areas that are contributing to participation within the harness racing industry contracting. Its not just the north island.

For example if you live in Canterbury and have 5 horses.The first thing you need is training facilities to rent.. Well I can tell you from personal experience that there are none. I recently came to an arrangement with someone experienced I know and trust, to train our horses, for a wage as it was cheaper that way,  All we had to do was find somewhere to train from.  Well after 3 months of looking we recently gave up. There is no where. Those with vacant facilities simply don't want anyone using them and I can understand that. 

The only  alternative is to buy 10 hectares,but its hard convincing the wife that we put $400,000 into a bit of land with no facilities just to train a few horses so you can keep your hobby going .

The price of farm land or land near population bases has become unaffordable to most. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by the galah

[eljay]

13 hours ago, globederby12 said:

I have a granddaughter who was involved in kids carts up North, through Nicky Chilcott. I think it was organised by the Butcher's, but is it a lead in for future drivers in the professional ranks, or do most drop out.?  Once at college my granddaughter lost touch with the sport due to other activitys even though she is from a horse racing family.

Anyone on here know much about the progress of the kids involved either North or South.

Back to the subject - many of today's leading young drivers have all served time in Kidz Kartz.      In fact at the awards in Christchurch last night the top cadet came through KK.    Naturally not everyone who graduates through the ponies will stay in the harness sport but the "strike rate" if I can call it that is pretty good.

[Pasketti]

2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

It is quite a hard game to crack but that is typical of any sporting profession in New Zealand. Small pool of participants and facilities. Plus, the longevity of harness racing drivers and trainers can be decades long which means little turnover (no pun intended). And the obvious thing is racing is not expanding at all so employment opportunities are stagnant.

What are some you would like to see and do you have a channel to propose them?

I imagine the powers that be are distracted by the major looming (or already present) problems so little improvements won't even be in their sphere of thinking at the moment unless there is a solid management structure in place (which I also can't imagine because from afar harness has shown with simple matters that there is limited communication and systems)

 

Normally you can make large change by fixing the little things but from what I can see it is the bigger picture stuff which is unsettling for northern harness. I really have no knowledge  of who is in charge of it all.

Are harness people in the north fearful for the future?

Does HRNZ have overall authority? 

Is it possible the ATC could go insolvent? 

Does the ATC and HRNZ work together?

Does the ATC have a public future plan for racing in the north?

Does the Messara Report have any relevance for harness in the north? 

Where is Winny?

Why can't racing as a whole just copy the model which seems so successful in some states in Australia?

Do we need made for TV tracks in the north out in the country like Melton with training facilities attached to it and accept the reality of what racing is now?

I am full of questions because I don't know enough to really put forward solutions.

From my point of view from where we sit as we only have a small team we need more races that suit our horse. cambridge is where ours are suited however we ideally want Auckland type horses.

getting young ones coming through and getting our name out there is key.

getting involved more beyond just training and being a bit out of the loop to the goings on. 

From the people I talk too getting some young blood involved with things like kidz kartz. The younger trainers and drivers would connect well.... Scott Phelan springs to mind he could certainly pump a lot of enthusiasm in to the sport.

 

[Happy Sunrise]

24 minutes ago, Pasketti said:

we need more races that suit our horse

To do that you need bigger horse numbers which comes back to the systemic problem of the north or is the handicapping system at fault?

There are lots of southern horses up racing up north these days, is a quick fix to encourage more up there? The stakes at Auckland seem to be enticing some to send more north.

I really do see the issue as being from the top down rather the other way round. W

30 minutes ago, Pasketti said:

getting young ones coming through and getting our name out there is key.

You mean the harness racing name? The north could do with a true champion to match the best stable.

[the galah]

18 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

 How will Awesome Impee  and Stevie Lynn go tomorrow?

Stevie lynn.good tip happy. I hope you and your followers got some. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by the galah

[Happy Sunrise]

15 minutes ago, the galah said:

Stevie lynn.good tip happy. I hope you and your followers got some. 

After Prodigal Guinness got cleaned out at the start and Awesome Impee broke after the start I needed a change of fortune.

Need to thank Westview for putting me onto him. His run at Oamaru looked very likely before the tyre came off.

I am still going in the quaddie for 20%. Got 5 going but I have not studied the field and it was a bit of a stab in the dark.

[Happy Sunrise]

My new favourite horse is Kardesler?

Where is Newmarket?

[Pasketti]

2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

To do that you need bigger horse numbers which comes back to the systemic problem of the north or is the handicapping system at fault?

There are lots of southern horses up racing up north these days, is a quick fix to encourage more up there? The stakes at Auckland seem to be enticing some to send more north.

I really do see the issue as being from the top down rather the other way round. W

You mean the harness racing name? The north could do with a true champion to match the best stable.

As in both not only harness racing but personally our stable. It’s rough work competing with the big stables but can only keep pushing on trying to make it. Just need that one special one to turn the tide and take on the best

[Happy Sunrise]

15 minutes ago, Pasketti said:

It’s rough work competing with the big stables

How hard is it to break even for the small trainer?

And do trainers feel like they have decent leadership? Who do they look to? HRNZ? ATC? NZRB?

Edited September 29, 2019 by Happy Sunrise

[globederby12]

1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said:

How hard is it to break even for the small trainer?

And do trainers feel like they have decent leadership? Who do they look to? HRNZ? ATC? NZRB?

Well after talking to Nicky and seeing how hard she works , thanks to my granddaughter driving trackwork for her for a while , it is hard graft. She is one hell of a worker. Getting well heeled owners on board gives access to better quality horses but you need a reputation first and that takes time and some breaks.  So I confer with Pasketti in that it is rough work competing with the big stables. But !!!!!, without the small trainer I think Harness would die a natural death , 

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, globederby12 said:

Well after talking to Nicky and seeing how hard she works , thanks to my granddaughter driving trackwork for her for a while , it is hard graft. She is one hell of a worker. Getting well heeled owners on board gives access to better quality horses but you need a reputation first and that takes time and some breaks.  So I confer with Pasketti in that it is rough work competing with the big stables. But !!!!!, without the small trainer I think Harness would die a natural death , 

Not an easy fix. 

Globe, what needs to be done?

[Pasketti]

2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

How hard is it to break even for the small trainer?

And do trainers feel like they have decent leadership? Who do they look to? HRNZ? ATC? NZRB?

It’s very hard to break even. Unless you are charging your owners a decent amount but then it’s hard to justify if you are just starting out and finding your feet with it all. The big picture of establishing a name and growing the stable is the goal.

leadership.... what’s that! The only guidance you get is when you ask fellow trainers for help. There are some great helpful people out there I have to say. Lots of people prepared to lend a hand.

[Happy Sunrise]

29 minutes ago, Pasketti said:

leadership.... what’s that! The only guidance you get is when you ask fellow trainers for help.

That is pretty sad.

I would really like to be able to discuss things and bring a generic viewpoint to the discussion but we need someone who has some real inside knowledge.

Where is Westview when you need him? (other than putting me onto good things ?)

29 minutes ago, Pasketti said:

The big picture of establishing a name and growing the stable is the goal.

Would you ever buy South Island horses to kick start things?

[Rangatira]

6 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Where is Westview when you need him?

might have called into the tap for a feed of blue cod

[Pasketti]

48 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

That is pretty sad.

I would really like to be able to discuss things and bring a generic viewpoint to the discussion but we need someone who has some real inside knowledge.

Where is Westview when you need him? (other than putting me onto good things ?)

Would you ever buy South Island horses to kick start things?

If we had the funds absolutely. The only place we look is the South Island you can’t deny the quality

[Happy Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Pasketti said:

If we had the funds absolutely. The only place we look is the South Island you can’t deny the quality

Have you ever tried to develop a relationship with a South Island trainer to takeover some of their horses who have met their mark?

How much do you value the North's grass track season? Getting some handy Canterbury grass trackers for a month or so for a hit and run mission could bring some success.  Even some of the Southern horses could be a goer as they have next to no grass track racing. I notice the odd trainer makes the trek to Methven sometimes which is a long long way to go.

Do you sell your horses? Would you sell if you got a real good one?

I am just chucking simple ideas out there. No idea if they are valid or obvious. It is the armchair talking.