mumbles Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Any race club with vision should have been buying land in the 80s,90s and early 2000s. How many did? Plenty of Race clubs had farmers on committees etc and what were they doing at that time....buying land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Kopia said: I'll put my hands up Chief-however there is an undeniable link between how our 'Racing Minister' is attempting to steal racetracks and land for the greater good and how the present coalition losers are acting. For peters to succeed in his land grab he will need the box to be ticked by labour and the greens. Thats the connection Good to have you back after a self imposed 'lunatic alert' koppa...but don't look now...he's back! See below.... Anyways Centralised strategy is for the greater good...overseas PUNTERS wanting to PUNT on quality tracks with consistent form... ...not sand being kicked in your punting moosh or sticky winter bogs... De Lore interviewed a Wagering Expert in one of his blogs...read it and you'll agree... We desperately need PUNTERS punting on NZ Thoroughbred product...and overseas punters are where it's at...not being supplemented by sports betting and UFC cages... You and me..how about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Any race club with vision should have been buying land in the 80s,90s and early 2000s. How many did? Plenty of Race clubs had farmers on committees etc and what were they doing at that time....buying land. The visionaries were...selling land.Look at Awapuni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Thomass said: Anyways Centralised strategy is for the greater good...overseas PUNTERS wanting to PUNT on quality tracks with consistent form... ...not sand being kicked in your punting moosh or sticky winter bogs... So please explain why the clubs who get most of the resources and supposedly have professional full time management have the worst track surfaces? Namely - Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, New Plymouth, Riccarton?! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: So please explain why the clubs who get most of the resources and supposedly have professional full time management have the worst track surfaces? Namely - Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, New Plymouth, Riccarton?! Because they have the most racedays and therefore the most votes at NZTR and that is their MO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 hours ago, mardigras said: Why should any minister be required to do anything. The strife NZ racing is in is certainly unrelated to what politicians do. The damn politicians are already giving massively to racing on behalf of the country. And the new proposed laws are supposedly a way for more money to come the industry's way. Please sir, can I have some more? Because there has been a string of Ministers who have made poor decisions appointing incompetent Board members. Clubs have no say, they have no votes The Ministers are accountable for the duds that they appoint who have cost the industry a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Ministers have little or no control over the codes and their [mis]management. We stakeholders have to be accountable for sitting on our chuffs, refusing to work together and get to a consensus, and allowing incompetence to govern us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Bloke said: Because there has been a string of Ministers who have made poor decisions appointing incompetent Board members. Clubs have no say, they have no votes The Ministers are accountable for the duds that they appoint who have cost the industry a fortune. I disagree. The major issue that NZ racing now faces is that it generates no wagering revenue. All the revenue it now gets comes from offshore racing, sports betting and pokies. Nothing to do with NZ racing. So it has become an industry that could stand on its own feet, to one close to 100% sustained by revenue streams that have nothing to do with NZ racing. The reasons that has come about have been due to pivotal decisions made by NZRB that were fully supported by the codes - and indeed anecdotally, I would say the majority of industry people as well. And definitely fully supported by the breeding industry. Those decisions changed the landscape - a landscape which prior to those decisions, had NZ racing pretty well self sufficient from a gambling related funding perspective. You can't blame the ministers for those appointments - the codes had representation on the NZRB board. They ratified the strategy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 They have created all sorts of problems. Nathan Clown appointed a Board who appointed Bonkin Bayliss who cost the industry 10 of Millions. The move of Trackside to Auckland cost over $10M. That's not counting the building that he leased for a huge amount in Stanley Street for Trackside staff and then he leased a building in Parnell for a fortune. He then sold the Petone building and leased it back and that's not counting the penthouse at The InterContinental he had on a long basis. Then there was the Triple dog which lost Millions. Poor decisions by ministers have caused this. Bayliss was just one poor decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Thomass said: Good to have you back after a self imposed 'lunatic alert' koppa...but don't look now...he's back! See below.... Anyways Centralised strategy is for the greater good...overseas PUNTERS wanting to PUNT on quality tracks with consistent form... ...not sand being kicked in your punting moosh or sticky winter bogs... De Lore interviewed a Wagering Expert in one of his blogs...read it and you'll agree... We desperately need PUNTERS punting on NZ Thoroughbred product...and overseas punters are where it's at...not being supplemented by sports betting and UFC cages... You and me..how about it? No No No tommo. I posted here a few months ago that I WILL NOT race horses or punt in NZ until there is some sanity, in the powers that be i.e. NZTR, RITA, and whatever other inititals are involved, or in the so called integrity unit, and the stevie wonder lookalikes in the j.c.a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 19 minutes ago, Freda said: Ministers have little or no control over the codes and their [mis]management. We stakeholders have to be accountable for sitting on our chuffs, refusing to work together and get to a consensus, and allowing incompetence to govern us. The Clubs have no say, they cannot vote on anything so how can they be accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bloke said: They have created all sorts of problems. Nathan Clown appointed a Board who appointed Bonkin Bayliss who cost the industry 10 of Millions. The move of Trackside to Auckland cost over $10M. That's not counting the building that he leased for a huge amount in Stanley Street for Trackside staff and then he leased a building in Parnell for a fortune. He then sold the Petone building and leased it back and that's not counting the penthouse at The InterContinental he had on a long basis. Then there was the Triple dog which lost Millions. Poor decisions by ministers have caused this. Bayliss was just one poor decision. I agree that there have been numerous bad decisions. But they have been ratified by people representing the codes. I don't think the minister has created the problems - no more than any minister would. The people employed that come up with the strategies are where the problem lies. The boards are merely more than likely just ratifying them based on the advice from supposed experts. Just like politicians do. And mostly with full support from the codes. Edited December 10, 2019 by mardigras 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 The Chair was appointed by Nathan Clown who appointed Bonkin Bayliss. A major issue has been various Ministers and Chairs who know very little about Racing. Look at The Chairs, Hughes, Bayliss, Brown, Hanson, the list goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimbu Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Will this proposed piece of legislation allow the government to procure the New Plymouth grounds from local government? I recall not too long ago there was talk of not renewing the racing clubs lease. This is a link to the latest article I have seen on this situation https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/117342439/new-plymouth-racecourse-remains-waiting-in-the-wings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bloke said: The Chair was appointed by Nathan Clown who appointed Bonkin Bayliss. A major issue has been various Ministers and Chairs who know very little about Racing. Look at The Chairs, Hughes, Bayliss, Brown, Hanson, the list goes on. Ok. So you're blaming the ministers because they know very little about racing. Not sure how you're going to fix that, when there probably isn't a minister that knows more than 'very little' about racing. Winston knows less than 'very little' and look at the praise he gets. The chairs are one person. You use a board to ratify decisions. It's an arms length appointment. None of the governments are going to be any different since none of them would be expected to have a minister that knows much about the racing industry and what ails it. Some of those you've mentioned were CEOs. They should have been appointed based on knowledge pertinent to what the job was. They weren't. The CEO has strategic discussions with his staff. The CEO presents those ideas to the board. The board ratifies or discards the ideas. That is usually how it works. I don't see any part of that involving the minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Whyisit Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 hours ago, holy ravioli said: The visionaries were...selling land.Look at Awapuni. You are wrong H R. The late Bill Freeman CEO of Awapuni and one of the Fells went to Aussie to take a look at what they were doing and came back and purchased land around the course to set up stables for horses to be trained there at Awapuni . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Whyisit Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, mardigras said: Ok. So you're blaming the ministers because they know very little about racing. Not sure how you're going to fix that, when there probably isn't a minister that knows more than 'very little' about racing. Winston knows less than 'very little' and look at the praise he gets. Winnie showed his true colours today when introducing his bill to Parliament for it’s first reading. So proud of it he introduced it and then moved that it be accepted. Sat down so the Speaker put it to the vote without anybody actually speaking to it. Winnie himself couldn’t speak on it because he had sat down . Much to the amusement of the house The speaker allowed the rest of the speakers to the bill their allotted time .Watched a couple National seem to grasp what’s wrong with the bill . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 You are wrong H R. The late Bill Freeman CEO of Awapuni and one of the Fells went to Aussie to take a look at what they were doing and came back and purchased land around the course to set up stables for horses to be trained there at Awapuni . So the RACE sell off for development, done when Sargent was NZTR honcho,never happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Whyisit Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: So the RACE sell off for development, done when Sargent was NZTR honcho,never happened! You were having a dig at the visionarys .What happened after that doesn’t apply to those visionarys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 You were having a dig at the visionarys .What happened after that doesn’t apply to those visionarys. Visionaries,luminaries...call them what you will. Seem to recall Levin and some deal with a retirement village developer too.A very one sided deal from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Can see this dragging on and on, some clubs have obviously taken legal advice and with lawyers on their committees can't see them rolling over and saying I'm all yours just take me. Legal battles could thwart the whole process as taking something that isn't yours to take , is just thievery under another guise and what court could allow that on principle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 hours ago, mardigras said: Ok. So you're blaming the ministers because they know very little about racing. Not sure how you're going to fix that, when there probably isn't a minister that knows more than 'very little' about racing. Winston knows less than 'very little' and look at the praise he gets. The chairs are one person. You use a board to ratify decisions. It's an arms length appointment. None of the governments are going to be any different since none of them would be expected to have a minister that knows much about the racing industry and what ails it. Some of those you've mentioned were CEOs. They should have been appointed based on knowledge pertinent to what the job was. They weren't. The CEO has strategic discussions with his staff. The CEO presents those ideas to the board. The board ratifies or discards the ideas. That is usually how it works. I don't see any part of that involving the minister. The Minister is accountable he is The Minister of Racing. If Nathan Clown was a competent Minister he should have at least taken note of what was going on. When Bonkin Baylis started having a huge spend up he should have questioned it instead of swanning aroung on Wellington Cup and Magic Millions Days like some A Lister. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Where else in the world would Nathan Clown have got away with his recalcitrance, he contributed to the train wreck alright, the fact he's not accountable is almost as bad as the crime itself. It beggars belief our industry has come to this and yet those responsible seem totally ambivalent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Bloke said: The Minister is accountable he is The Minister of Racing. If Nathan Clown was a competent Minister he should have at least taken note of what was going on. When Bonkin Baylis started having a huge spend up he should have questioned it instead of swanning aroung on Wellington Cup and Magic Millions Days like some A Lister. I'm sure each and every minister has taken note of what was going on. I would say there should be little interest in doing anything after having taken note. Can you provide what the minister is actually accountable for? As in, what are the KPIs to which he is measured or something similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: Where else in the world would Nathan Clown have got away with his recalcitrance, he contributed to the train wreck alright, the fact he's not accountable is almost as bad as the crime itself. It beggars belief our industry has come to this and yet those responsible seem totally ambivalent. What would you have liked the minister to do - then or now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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