Chief Stipe Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thomass said: Really...and that's got to do with the rail being off...How? It didn't seem to have any effect on horses chances. 4 minutes ago, Thomass said: Only 2 won inside Barrier 5 Hardly surprising when half the races had less than 8 starters. 7 minutes ago, Thomass said: NOT SANTA stayed 3/4 widths off the entire journey...as indeed they endeavoured to do all day.. Good to see the jockey's compensated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I'm not sure why some of you folk fail to understand how PUNTERS need to know if the RAIL is off... Why did the Breeders Cup decide to publish readings this year I wonder?? Makes a nice side show for Mathmatician Parties perhaps? Track Managers need to know...if their irrigation has been evenly distributed for example.... ....yet the PUNTER who keeps this game going doesn't? Please explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Thomass said: I'm not sure why some of you folk fail to understand how PUNTERS need to know if the RAIL is off... You EXPLAIN how it affects your punting strategies. As yet you haven't given us any examples. The fact is as a Punter you have ZERO control over how that information is used in a race. Only the Jockeys can respond to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Of course I have ...wake the f up Whanganui is the extreme case in point... The rail is an absolute DEATH TRAP on an H11...probably a Puggy S 9 as well 2/3 Width on the outer rail is the fast lane...ask Sweenz...he's seen the readings Even your dickhead mate mali says they should be provided What does that make you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Thomass said: Of course I have ...wake the f up Whanganui is the extreme case in point... The rail is an absolute DEATH TRAP on an H11...probably a Puggy S 9 as well 2/3 Width on the outer rail is the fast lane...ask Sweenz...he's seen the readings Even your dickhead mate mali says they should be provided What does that make you? Can you cut the personal abuse please or you are outta here. Not good to bite the hand that enables your insatiable desire for attention. So what if the rail is a death trap (no deaths been reported yet) - as a Punter you have no control over how that information is used so why bother including it in your assessments. The only reason it should be included is to confuse mug punters and enhance the return to better punters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Can you cut the personal abuse please or you are outta here. Not good to bite the hand that enables your insatiable desire for attention. So what if the rail is a death trap (no deaths been reported yet) - as a Punter you have no control over how that information is used so why bother including it in your assessments. The only reason it should be included is to confuse mug punters and enhance the return to better punters. What's worse "dickhead" or his "low life scum"...which you aided and abetted...wake up Alors...it'd be like ignoring ERA's in Baseball Investing... Knowing certain areas of a track will FUNDAMENTALLY affect a horses OVERALL chance if their accepted running placement has been identified before a race... Its simply basic 101 punting shit this...like knowing an on pace runner at HQ is going to be covering extra ground over 1200M The only mug in this would be encouraging VALUE investing on rails runners when the outside 2/3 widths has been accepted and acknowledged throughout every race meeting there in the past 5 years ..and your mates did just that...total IDIOCY Is that acceptable Judas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: What's worse "dickhead" or his "low life scum"...which you aided and abetted...wake up I don't recall Mardigras calling me either. You consistently fire abuse at ANYONE who offers an opinion different to yours. Park your ego. 4 minutes ago, Thomass said: Its simply basic 101 punting shit this...like knowing an on pace runner at HQ is going to be covering extra ground over 1200M So what? As a Punter you have no control over how the information is used by the only person that can effect a change i.e. The Jockey. So why bother including a variable you have no control over nor can definitively measure? You still haven't given us an example of how it changed your betting at Awapuni, Otaki or Wanganui or anywhere for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Oh my...Why the f do I bother? Its a simple as identifying a Soft track runner and how a Firm track MAY not suit it The same for a midfield/ back runner having to snag back and go around the entire field at Whanganui.. ...when the outside 2/3 widths are already blocked Obviously it's not 100% certain that will happen but Punters are entitled to know so they can adjust % chance ffs....basic 101 shit this Methinks you just like arguing for the f In sake of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Thomass said: Its a simple as identifying a Soft track runner and how a Firm track MAY not suit it LOL - "MAY not suit it"!? What's the Jockey going to do find the lane that suits it? LOL. Yep that's a winner! 10 minutes ago, Thomass said: The same for a midfield/ back runner having to snag back and go around the entire field at Whanganui.. ...when the outside 2/3 widths are already blocked Given the size of our fields now and the width of the Wanganui track I don't see this as a problem. Who knows the Jockey might look fo the gaps through the middle. Again you have no control over the paths taken so why worry about it when reviewing chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) Go away...Baldrick you is Edited January 10, 2020 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, Thomass said: Go away...Baldrick you is OK the debate is getting too hard for you. Quite simply if you can't explain how these new measurements are of any use to you then I suggest they are of no use to anyone. BTW I'm here to stay - if I go away then so does BOAY unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: OK the debate is getting too hard for you. Quite simply if you can't explain how these new measurements are of any use to you then I suggest they are of no use to anyone. BTW I'm here to stay - if I go away then so does BOAY unfortunately. Oh no, don't do that. Thommo would then not have a venue to talk to himself out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Next we will be providing moisture/hardness maps like a heat map of the entire track. And jockeys will be weaving their mounts all over the place looking to snare the best ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Once again Thomas is right. If he said it was night you guys would argue it was day etc. The pentrometer readings are all over the place and not that reliable however the new moisture meters are indeed far superior. Last month I was privy to reading of a track in the morning with the new moisture reading and it showed hard up against the rail was a good 3. From two widths out across the entire track it wasn't and the slower reading was uniform to the outside fence. I was already very confident of a horse winning there that day but armed with that information I was now super confident as I knew it was going to lead and be right on the fence. My bet was doubled and I took a multi into another whom I believed would benefit also. The provider of the information received a good sling I can tell you and very keen to advise again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, All The Aces said: I was already very confident of a horse winning there that day but armed with that information I was now super confident as I knew it was going to lead and be right on the fence. My bet was doubled and I took a multi into another whom I believed would benefit also. So you had already selected your bet. The "information" you received only motivated you to put more money on. It didn't change the your assessment of chance. 39 minutes ago, All The Aces said: The pentrometer readings are all over the place and not that reliable however the new moisture meters are indeed far superior. If the new meters measure moisture then they need to be calibrated on a track by track basis. For example a Strathayr track will always return a higher moisture content than a track that has poor soil structure yet be classed as Good. You'll eventually get caught out using this information they way you are. Too much variation for something that you have no control over. The person who got the "sling" will no doubt be knocking on your door again until the day it all goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, All The Aces said: Once again Thomas is right. If he said it was night you guys would argue it was day etc. Not at all. I for one have been consistent in my arguments and opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 43 minutes ago, All The Aces said: Once again Thomas is right. If he said it was night you guys would argue it was day etc Rubbish. He makes decent points about integrity such as whip rules and starter issues. But his points on punting are worthless. As proven. 44 minutes ago, All The Aces said: The pentrometer readings are all over the place and not that reliable however the new moisture meters are indeed far superior. Last month I was privy to reading of a track in the morning with the new moisture reading and it showed hard up against the rail was a good 3. From two widths out across the entire track it wasn't and the slower reading was uniform to the outside fence. I was already very confident of a horse winning there that day but armed with that information I was now super confident as I knew it was going to lead and be right on the fence. My bet was doubled and I took a multi into another whom I believed would benefit also. The provider of the information received a good sling I can tell you and very keen to advise again. If all the jockeys and punters had the information you had, would you have had the same confidence? Surely all the jockeys would have wanted to make use of the information you had, that others did not - and therefore change their own plans. And all the other punters would have altered the price accordingly. The information if available to all, is worthless. Your case pretty well endorses that. You had information the competing punters and the jockeys riding didn't have. Information that all punters have, will reflect in price. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 People have asked for examples of how you would use that information (given every one else would have it as well), to your advantage. The silence has been deafening. Maybe you can demonstrate. A post race example won't really cut the mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Not everyone would use the information of course. Race video's are available to everyone also yet very few actually look at them, including yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 37 minutes ago, All The Aces said: Not everyone would use the information of course. Race video's are available to everyone also yet very few actually look at them, including yourself. In this day and age, I'd say videos are used by the majority. I don't use them because I believe most do use them - so no advantage to be had there, imo. Your mate Thomass claims this track information is vital information to punters and that they are all buggering off elsewhere without it. Are you saying he is off the mark there? Are you suggesting the jockeys wouldn't use the information as well. Is that what you're saying? Would jockeys all just ride their mounts the same way if they had the information you had but very few others had? Are they all totally stupid? And are you going to be able to put up an example of where you've used this publicly available information in order to double your bet? Before the races would be nice, but given that is not the protocol on here, I suspect that would be asking to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 No one is asking much of you here. Apparently this information is of such value to punters. Why is it that no one seems to be able to even give a theoretical example of how this will benefit punters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Thomass said: I'm not sure why some of you folk fail to understand how PUNTERS need to know if the RAIL is off... should the jockeys have to share how the will tactically use this info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, mardigras said: He makes decent points about integrity such as whip rules and starter issues. tick... 2 hours ago, mardigras said: But his points on punting are worthless. As proven. lol! you should be more tolerant and enjoy him sitting at the table! $omeone has to be losing... ? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 hours ago, mardigras said: In this day and age, I'd say videos are used by the majority. I don't use them because I believe most do use them - so no advantage to be had there, imo. Agree entirely, those whom I know use them suffer significantly from confirmation bias after watching 1 or 2 videos and so often ignore the rest of the field as a result. Time restraints prevent them watching videos of all runners, which only reinforces the bias. Not a foundation for a solid selection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, barryb said: Agree entirely, those whom I know use them suffer significantly from confirmation bias after watching 1 or 2 videos and so often ignore the rest of the field as a result. Time restraints prevent them watching videos of all runners, which only reinforces the bias. Not a foundation for a solid selection. Definitely. And then you hear things like adjusting for wide or unlucky runs. Which you would have to review/adjust for every horse in the field, every race. And perhaps then you wouldn't hear that there are heaps of horses in the race with no chance. I wonder why the TAB prices them the way they do. They could get a lot more investment if they put up odds of 10,000-1 on those runners with no chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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