Thomass Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 So it had to happen... A Group 1 victory won with ILLEGAL use of the Whip...and MASSIVELY In McKay's case just blatant use of consequtive strides and 5 at least over the limit.... In both cases, it allowed the leading horse in these cases, to skip even further clear while the rest are abiding by the rules.... ...then narrowly losing.. ...and unable to protest In Thornton's case, it's noticeable she was able to keep momentum going, after skipping clear earlier than she would have liked and just hanging on... Why have Whip rules when Jockeys like these two..and Innes/McNAB with similar bans after Black Type victories...just throw the rule book out the door?...Without serious consequences Anyway McKay gets 12 days and Thornton 9...both with a wet slap 1k fine...which the owner probably pays anyway... Black Type's GOLD...just get it at any cost...ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 The fine does not reflect the winning jockeys percentage of the stake -$1000 fine, $7000 odd winning percentage, To be effective the fine must be more than the reward. Best they are just disqualified for breaking the rules. Better still just ban all whips and then no problem -the world is changing and whips will be banned everywhere in the world [bar Australia] in the next few years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Too true Fred... What about 1/2 over...a fine commensurate with their % 3 plus a simple DQ as you say... ..a bit like the US rule for interference... Shirley they won't repeat the effort...unless they're slow learners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Beau Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Ban the whip and do it now. It will confirm to everyone how useless Bernard Saundry and his team are if they don’t do it within the next 12 months. That’s my opinion anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Agree...with some qualifications. Should be allowed to be carried for safety and guidance I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Just thinking with my morning cuppa...while I agree in principle with a whip ban, I can imagine the howls of protest if such should happen. I think that a reduction in allowable strikes - seven, or five say - overall should be brought in pretty soon, for the purpose of leading those who protest most loudly to the acceptance of a gradual phasing-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Whipping looks bad -so we restrict it to 5 whacks ? If 10 strikes look bad does 5 look just half as bad? Get real. if 10 strikes are bad so is one strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Topic not covered in this morning's Dom (not surprising really as they just take what's fed them these days). So looks like I'll have to drop a line to them or to one of the animal activist groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 The Dom has no racing Journo now does it Mark...just takes news from the NZTR led NZ Racing Desk? Saw Barton there on Saturday...he's not writing PC Racing Desk stuff now is he? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Dark Beau said: Ban the whip and do it now. It will confirm to everyone how useless Bernard Saundry and his team are if they don’t do it within the next 12 months. That’s my opinion anyway. With the recent changed rule BERNIE had the perfect opportunity to make a statement of change... ...so he 'consulted' as CEO's do...with the Trainers and Jockey Association... ..now ask yourself...are those 2 outfits going to agree with drastic change and to make a statement? Na...they came up with the weak as piss..."Let's do what Australia does" Guess what...they're about to change radically...so good old NZ missed the chance and won't be changing again anytime soon... 'Consulting' is for limp wristers... And NZTR are just that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 How many protesters were at Trentham? I haven't seen any howls of protest from anyone except the usual drum beating from Thomaas. No point in knifing ourselves in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 The numbers were CENSORED out... ...which should resonate with your delicate PC sensitivities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Fred said: Whipping looks bad -so we restrict it to 5 whacks ? If 10 strikes look bad does 5 look just half as bad? Get real. if 10 strikes are bad so is one strike. You might like to re-read......' to lead those who protest most loudly to an acceptance of a gradual phasing out ' ......nowhere have I indicated that I think a bashing is ok....but I also know that there will be howls of protest from many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Thomass said: The numbers were CENSORED out... ...which should resonate with your delicate PC sensitivities... Fuck off Thomaas. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/19/2020 at 4:33 AM, Thomass said: So it had to happen... A Group 1 victory won with ILLEGAL use of the Whip.. Take the last 2 Melbourne Cups Thomass. Your kiwi mate M Walker fined in both (10k in 2019) for a great ride(s) on Prince of Arran. Michael stating "It's the Melbourne Cup, I was throwing everything to try and win the race" In the 2018 6 jocks ( including the first 3) were fined for breaking the WHIP rules in this prestigious of Group 1's. With millions up for grabs on the big stage do Jock's Just Do As They Please? Do we criticise/ or even fine the Jock's that don't break the whip rules for Not trying hard enough ?? Oh the Irony hurts. hahahaha With a huge amount of people watching , local and international in our flagship race. Quite funny really , Imagine when they DO change the placings in that race, due to whip rule breaches. Racing will NOT easily recover well from the Fallout. FRED above is right IMO, just have to ban them whips altogeather. Problem solved (for the Cup and ALL races) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Yes, very good points! Of course you'd know that I've been a constant wrt the Whip ban... The Integrity Committee at NZTR let themselves down badly when trying to be all things to all sector groups... As pointed out above it was the perfect opportunity to make a difference and grab the Gen xyz's hearts and minds... ...instead a limp response adopting Oz rules...who will undoubtably change soon... ...and NZTR will be too embarrassed to change again so soon... Peter Hutt...the CHCH Lawyer...has been head of the NZTR Intrgrity Committee for so long now he's got mushrooms growing out his ears... ...he doesn't hear well then... And he'll look at the INTEGRITY of those Races ILLEGALLY won and... ...go and have another Whiskey and suck on a Stogie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: How many protesters were at Trentham? I haven't seen any howls of protest from anyone except the usual drum beating from Thomaas. No point in knifing ourselves in the back. There were about 8 protestors outside the main gates. One with a loud hailer and the others with placards. They achieved nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: As pointed out above it was the perfect opportunity to make a difference and grab the Gen xyz's hearts and minds... They don't give a shyte. It is only a small minority that it is an issue with and they aren't necessarily Gen x, y or z. As for those that do protest - they want RACING of any animal to be BANNED - full stop. Ban whips and they won't stop there. Don't give them an inch I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 It is nothing to do with protesters -it is a worldwide realization that smacking kids or horses is wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Fred said: It is nothing to do with protesters -it is a worldwide realization that smacking kids or horses is wrong. So you are trying to tell us that their is no difference between smacking your child in the correct manner to save him/her from themselves and teach them life skills ,such as there is justice in this world and whipping a horse to make it go faster . Good luck in your world bud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, globederby12 said: So you are trying to tell us that their is no difference between smacking your child in the correct manner to save him/her from themselves and teach them life skills ,such as there is justice in this world and whipping a horse to make it go faster . Good luck in your world bud. In today's World BOTH these 'smacking' and 'whipping' methods are perceived as wrong by the greater public, no matter what the reason they are being applied. Fred is correct.Times have changed (realization this is poor form). nothing to do with protesters. The current rules state you can strike a horse 'x' amount of times in a race still, which does mean you are correct in saying there is a difference as striking children, pretty much has zero tolerance these days. WHY shouldn't it be the same for horses? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Thomass said: The Dom has no racing Journo now does it Mark...just takes news from the NZTR led NZ Racing Desk? Saw Barton there on Saturday...he's not writing PC Racing Desk stuff now is he? Was my point Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 On 20/01/2020 at 4:10 PM, Gammalite said: Fred is correct.Times have changed Wrong. Just because times have changed moral absolutes do not. And because the greater public perceive smacking as wrong does not make it so."Spare not the rod" comes to mind ,and society's ills can be traced back to lack of discipline now propagated in our schools and homes. One cannot compare a child to a horse in the first instance, and those "animal" lovers would be better disposed in bettering humanity's position or disposition depending on which side of the fence you are on. We are far crueler to our own kind than any poor horse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 9 hours ago, globederby12 said: Wrong. Just because times have changed moral absolutes do not. And because the greater public perceive smacking as wrong does not make it so."Spare not the rod" comes to mind ,and society's ills can be traced back to lack of discipline now propagated in our schools and homes. One cannot compare a child to a horse in the first instance, and those "animal" lovers would be better disposed in bettering humanity's position or disposition depending on which side of the fence you are on. We are far crueler to our own kind than any poor horse. Notwithstanding the above - which I don't disagree with entirely - the industry is funded by public money...so public perception does matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Hilarious stuff yesterday with RIU head Gobder "Listen Mike..when are we gunna allow relegations for this" "ahhhhh ummmmm arrrre...oh...arrre...well interference is your length and another length..." F ME... Mick...were talking the Whip...and allowing 3 consequtive ILLEGAL strikes...just before the 100M...enabling TM to get the winning break... 21 in all in fact... ..try that in old blighty and the WORLD of social media would come down on the Industry like a tonne of bricks... ...here...doesn't even rate a mention on the NZ Racing Review Weigh In show ... ...a total joke... ...even Wussel Warwick got a segment about him being a Stud Man again WTF that has to do with RACING is any f'ers guess?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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