TIME FOR CHANGE Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Before Christmas when the TAB was having 50 million a week in bets I tried to put $100 on a greyhound @ $3.50 and was restricted to a bet of $39.00 Yesterday the TAB took a bet from BGP FOR $70,000 TO WIN $105,000.00 and lost. Last week they had 2.5 million invested in horse racing so would you not think that they would restrict their exposure. During the week on Racenet under "latest news" was article about Topsports and their new product. As detailed below One of TOPSPORT’s standout products is Best Of The Best Premium where punters can bet at any time up to 30 minutes before most Saturday metropolitan races across Australia and get the best price of Top Fluctuation or Best Tote, and you can bet to win up to $5,000! And that’s something you won’t get anywhere else. Aussie punters should bet here Dean McKenzie should investigate why TAB Bookies took this bet. By the way BGP well done getting the TAB to take the bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) Hard to believe they'd turn you away for the sake of $100 unless you'd had a previous big collect and they were mitigating their losses, but even so a $100 wager should be accepted without question. Even a bet of $70,000 to win $105,000 is odds-on stacked in TAB's favour. A NZ punter wagered $100,000 to win $105,000 on Black Caviar with TAB in a 4 horse at Moonee Valley ! Edited April 5, 2020 by billy connolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, billy connolly said: Hard to believe they'd turn you away for the sake of $100 unless you'd had a previous big collect and they were mitigating their losses, but even so a $100 wager should be accepted without question. Even a bet of $70,000 to win $105,000 is odds-on stacked in TAB's favour. A NZ punter wagered $100,000 to win $105,000 on Black Caviar with TAB in a 4 horse at Moonee Valley ! I think in the example, the punter wagered $100k to win $5k. In the earlier example they wagered $70k to win $105k, i.e. a return of $175k on their bet and a loss in this example by the TAB (depending on what they did with that bet), of $105k. How did you come to the conclusion that a bet of $70k to win $105k is odds-on stacked in the TABs favour without knowing what the supposed chance of the runner is? I can only guess that in a 2 horse race, if the TAB lets me bet $70k to win $105k on one runner, and then lets me bet $70k to win $105k on the other runner, that is stacked in the TABs favour. If you think that, let me know next time you want to offer something similar. Thanks in advance. Edited April 5, 2020 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 21 hours ago, TIME FOR CHANGE said: Before Christmas when the TAB was having 50 million a week in bets I tried to put $100 on a greyhound @ $3.50 and was restricted to a bet of $39.00 Not an isolated thing TFC. That's why you should bet in cash either at TABs or on-course rather than through an account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 It's partly PR though isn't it, TAB don't take bets from BGP and they scream out loud how they are helping the industry and the TAB aren't playing ball etc. So they'll take their money and punters somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 TAB should be happy that aus racing still going? Otherwise it would be a total disaster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIME FOR CHANGE Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 I questioned you last week BUT this week I praise you. 175k from BGP should help pay the wages this week. TAB WINNERS BY A KNOCKOUT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 hours ago, TIME FOR CHANGE said: I questioned you last week BUT this week I praise you. 175k from BGP should help pay the wages this week. TAB WINNERS BY A KNOCKOUT Whatever the result they shouldn't be taking those big bets when others can't get stones on. They can expose themselves (almost literally it seems with the relationship they have) for BGP but not regular punters which I think is bullshit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said: They can expose themselves (almost literally it seems with the relationship they have) for BGP but not regular punters which I think is bullshit. They know overall that they'll win versus the BGP. They don't have a great record of long term success. They have Ted selecting for them! As Mardi would tell you Probabeel was very poor value yesterday especially on that track. Didn't BGP plonk their dosh on well before the final track conditions were declared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Didn't BGP plonk their dosh on well before the final track conditions were declared. Yes, they were betting from Wednesday from memory (Thursday at the latest). And in the words of Thomass, here are my prices on the Oaks. So I think Probabeel was poor odds. As was Shout The Bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I liked Colette but you didn't have her at value. Toffee Tongue for a place was great value. I liked them because they were relatively fresh compared to the rest of the field and both had performed on a similar track last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I liked Colette but you didn't have her at value. I sure didn't. For a horse to be at value, I have to give the horse around a 25% extra chance than what the betting provider does (in most cases). Eg. I had Etah James as a higher winning chance than the NZ TAB. But still wasn't at value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 As I do my punting in cash and with racing on-course in NZ shut down and TAB outlets closed I took a few tickets in the BGP just for interest and a bit of fun as something to listen to whilst making deliveries etc. The three selectors were Luke, the Goat and Neil Davis from Formpro? Would I go in again. I would probably say yes just for the entertainment factor of it all. Certainly seems to create plenty of interest which can't be a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: They know overall that they'll win versus the BGP. They don't have a great record of long term success. They have Ted selecting for them! They seemed to get desperate at the end of the day yesterday. It would have done my head in with all those bets trying to recover their losses. But I suppose that is the concept to engage the 'boys' for the full day which is cool. I mistakenly thought they had their initial 7 or so bets and that was it but they kept on going and going till they had nothing left. Is that what they do? Low odds of that being successful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 15 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said: Whatever the result they shouldn't be taking those big bets when others can't get stones on. They can expose themselves (almost literally it seems with the relationship they have) for BGP but not regular punters which I think is bullshit. They have a larger outlet to moan at and some industry heavyweights that will moan with them if they don't get on, TAB not worried about a one man show unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, Huey said: They have a larger outlet to moan at and some industry heavyweights that will moan with them if they don't get on, TAB not worried about a one man show unfortunately. Wondering out loud, will an individual of BGP or the groups themselves get one of these rebates I hear about because they put so much through the TAB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 My understanding is that the BGP twisted the TAB's arm tantamount to blackmail to get rebates. Again I may be wrong but the source was good. The leverage they used was they woukd bet offshore through an OZZIE account. They could legally do that as one of the key players in BGP is OZ based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: My understanding is that the BGP twisted the TAB's arm tantamount to blackmail to get rebates. Again I may be wrong but the source was good. The leverage they used was they woukd bet offshore through an OZZIE account. They could legally do that as one of the key players in BGP is OZ based. Odd - since I didn't think they paid rebates on fixed odds betting. And I don't think the off-shore TABs do either. I haven't seen them put a tote bet on. Clipping the ticket of an off-shore provider may be as profitable as taking their bets (and carries no risk). It all depends on their losses overall. NZ TAB doesn't need them, the industry still would have them - and that is what is more important I would have thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, mardigras said: Odd - since I didn't think they paid rebates on fixed odds betting. And I don't think the off-shore TABs do either. I haven't seen them put a tote bet on. Good point. But I know they lobbied the TAB hard to give them something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Good point. But I know they lobbied the TAB hard to give them something. I disagree with anything based on turnover. Turnover has nothing to do with 'your best customers'. Losses - they are your best customers - the bigger the losses, the more you might want to look after them. Turnover isn't necessarily related to losses. This isn't a normal business of offering your big customers (on volume), a discount. In this business, your actual biggest customers (and in fact, likely your most important customers to retain) are your biggest losers. I'd have no issue with the TAB offering some form of rebate on losses - to keep those punters losing with you. Edited April 12, 2020 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 The TAB now offers rebates on losing and winning months. It used to be only if you had a losing month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said: The TAB now offers rebates on losing and winning months. It used to be only if you had a losing month. So that would mean they are based on turnover. WTF turnover has got to do with anything for the TAB, I have got no idea. Do they pay rebates on fixed odds based turnover also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I believe so, but don't quote me on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said: I believe so, but don't quote me on that. No wonder their pricing is so crap a lot of the time and they are complaining about margins if that is the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: My understanding is that the BGP twisted the TAB's arm tantamount to blackmail to get rebates. Again I may be wrong but the source was good. 3 hours ago, SLB2.0 said: The TAB now offers rebates on losing and winning months. It used to be only if you had a losing month. So, if BGP get rebates, who pockets them? 20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: The leverage they used was they woukd bet offshore through an OZZIE account. They could legally do that as one of the key players in BGP is OZ based. We are here to support racing but just make sure you give us what we want ? Bit like the story of ANZAC Day being all about New Zealand but making the poppies overseas. Money talks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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