Who decides what's best for Racing? Punters, Owners, Trainers, NZTR or the IT Dept at RITA?

[Chief Stipe]

I have it on good authority that the reason they are racing at Ascot Park (Invercargill) and not Wingatui (Dunedin) is that Ascot Park has..........wait for it.......a permanent fibre connection!!!!!!

Great we'll get high definition coverage of the rain drops (buckets?) and mud clods flying!!!!  Of course the majority of starters will have to travel there!

FFS RITA get it sorted!  That doesn't mean fast tracking the installation of a permanent fibre connection at Wingatui either!  What it does mean is reviewing EVERY Strategic Decision made before RITA's inception.  Time to start re-negotiating contracts with your vendors!!!!!

 

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I have it on good authority that the reason they are racing at Ascot Park (Invercargill) and not Wingatui (Dunedin) is that Ascot Park has..........wait for it.......a permanent fibre connection!!!!!!

Great we'll get high definition coverage of the rain drops (buckets?) and mud clods flying!!!!  Of course the majority of starters will have to travel there!

FFS RITA get it sorted!  That doesn't mean fast tracking the installation of a permanent fibre connection at Wingatui either!  What it does mean is reviewing EVERY Strategic Decision made before RITA's inception.  Time to start re-negotiating contracts with your vendors!!!!!

 

Absolutely, out of interest were Wingatui at all told that this would be something they may require for racing in the future?

[Chief Stipe]

51 minutes ago, Huey said:

Absolutely, out of interest were Wingatui at all told that this would be something they may require for racing in the future?

Who knows.  The bigger point is it ISN'T necessary.  The WRONG strategic decision for broadcasting is leading to the WRONG decisions about race course viability.

The NZRB/RITA have spent beyond their means on flash toys that they didn't need.  Now it requires some ballsy leadership to review those decisions.

[Huey]

50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Who knows.  The bigger point is it ISN'T necessary.  The WRONG strategic decision for broadcasting is leading to the WRONG decisions about race course viability.

The NZRB/RITA have spent beyond their means on flash toys that they didn't need.  Now it requires some ballsy leadership to review those decisions.

Neither are the closure of several tracks necessary , but they are part of the wider scheme of destroying the sport.

My point is , is this yet another element of undertaking race meetings that wasn't communicated to the wider industry and just a select few, which appears to be a very prevalent tactic, whether you deem it necessary or not.

[Freda]

Health and safety must be considered however.

But,  if a club has the means to bring itself into the modern arena, then it shouldn't be arbitrarily closed.

[nomates]

I'm still confused about the track closures . Since they announced the closures and which ones are to close i have been trying to find out the actual cost savings to the industry . Can't find any written figures and nobody has been able to answer my repetitive question , what is the actual dollar saving per track to the industry for those earmarked for closure . If someone has it i would appreciate knowing . They must know otherwise it's just a stab in the dark . They wouldn't just pull a figure out of the air would they ?

[Huey]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I'm still confused about the track closures . Since they announced the closures and which ones are to close i have been trying to find out the actual cost savings to the industry . Can't find any written figures and nobody has been able to answer my repetitive question , what is the actual dollar saving per track to the industry for those earmarked for closure . If someone has it i would appreciate knowing . They must know otherwise it's just a stab in the dark . They wouldn't just pull a figure out of the air would they ?

If you were here for the last 18 months you'd be confused as the rest of us, the real answer is there isn't a factual one, because there hasn't been any analysis completed.

Most participants in the industry know that favouritism, bias etc has led to these decisions. Its somewhat odd how no existing clubs with plenty of race days, full time staff were targeted for closure.

 

[All The Aces]

Was talking with a work mate what would happen if they close Tab agencies/ pub outlets and just bet on line. He reckons it would be a further reduction in betting as some just won't be bothered to bet that way.

He did make the point that if indeed that happens it could well mean a re-appearance of the pub bookie setting up and providing a service. Which he said would be ironic as the TAB was originally set up to put illegal bookies out of business. 

   

[curious]

27 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

Was talking with a work mate what would happen if they close Tab agencies/ pub outlets and just bet on line. He reckons it would be a further reduction in betting as some just won't be bothered to bet that way.

He did make the point that if indeed that happens it could well mean a re-appearance of the pub bookie setting up and providing a service. Which he said would be ironic as the TAB was originally set up to put illegal bookies out of business. 

   

They had already started to make a comeback, anecdotally.

Edited May 7, 2020 by curious

[Huey]

1 hour ago, All The Aces said:

Was talking with a work mate what would happen if they close Tab agencies/ pub outlets and just bet on line. He reckons it would be a further reduction in betting as some just won't be bothered to bet that way.

He did make the point that if indeed that happens it could well mean a re-appearance of the pub bookie setting up and providing a service. Which he said would be ironic as the TAB was originally set up to put illegal bookies out of business. 

   

They'll close them no doubt about it.

Racing in this country can't help but kick itself in the foot. 

Got rid of Freeview, Informant,Phonebet the list goes on and on, just another nail in the coffin.

They probably think they have done well online with no stores/pubs etc open but they have had a captive audience.

[barryb]

Informant & Phonebet Huey? neither were a loss, both dated dinosaur age things.

Was talking to a person a couple of days ago who said they don’t have internet at home, I couldn’t believe that there were still people around like that, how does anyone survive in this world without it. How do you pay bills, research anything you want to buy,  get your news and info, and so on.

Its called progress Huey & if the cost outweighs the benefit then let’s move on. Remember VCRs, DVDs, Cassette tapes, printed photos, Landlines.

[Huey]

8 hours ago, barryb said:

Informant & Phonebet Huey? neither were a loss, both dated dinosaur age things.

Was talking to a person a couple of days ago who said they don’t have internet at home, I couldn’t believe that there were still people around like that, how does anyone survive in this world without it. How do you pay bills, research anything you want to buy,  get your news and info, and so on.

Its called progress Huey & if the cost outweighs the benefit then let’s move on. Remember VCRs, DVDs, Cassette tapes, printed photos, Landlines.

That progress is all well and good Barry if you have a website that works, if you don't and you'd have to be mad to thing that TAB website is any good and the numbers align with that its hopeless, so you've got to continue to service your customers until you have something to move them onto.

The problem with the NZ TAB is they believe their own hype and just put something in place and expect the punter/customer to flock to it , it doesn't and shouldn't work like that. 

I don't believe the website was even tested on decent number of customers before release, if it was the customers  must have all been sports bettors.

So failing that you have to have channels for them to bet with or get information on otherwise you lose them, I'm perplexed at all of this progress garbage when 40% of the TAB customers are probably of retirement age, why alienate them? and thats not just the TAB thats racing in general, racing missed a couple of generations but wants to jump into the future before they catch up.

Have you tried to watch race replays on loveracing or Live racing on TAB app on mobile devices absolutely hopeless.

Apart from the pdf form on the TAB website or knowing a lot of other sites to get that info (and most customers don't know them) you need a formguide available for the punter. I believe the reason for the decline here has been distribution and a lack of reliability of the product.

Sometimes you have to look outside your bubble and see there are others out there.

[Chief Stipe]

53 minutes ago, Huey said:

Have you tried to watch race replays on loveracing or Live racing on TAB app on mobile devices absolutely hopeless.

Yep especially if your internet connection isn't super fast.  Most telcos only give you 40Gb before they screw your bandwidth down on a mobile.  40Gb goes fast once you've updated your apps, read the news a few times during the day let alone stream the TAB'S HD trackside on your phone.

 

[barryb]

8 hours ago, Huey said:

That progress is all well and good Barry if you have a website that works, if you don't and you'd have to be mad to thing that TAB website is any good and the numbers align with that its hopeless, so you've got to continue to service your customers until you have something to move them onto.

I don't believe the website was even tested on decent number of customers before release, if it was the customers  must have all been sports bettors.

Sometimes you have to look outside your bubble and see there are others out there.

I don't have an issue with the website, works perfectly fine for me. I watch feeds all Sat and Sun on my PC & its great. Mind you I have a fast processor, stacks of RAM & fibre 1000 so you could say if I am having issues then everyone will.

You need to take your own advice about bubbles, you spend far to much time worrying about the D & E customers, smart business focuses on the A & B with a bit of interest in the C customers, leaving the D & E to tag along if they desire. Now don't get me wrong here, D & E can be very profitable but only on the right terms & with little direct involvement from a business.

Finally the TAB with Covid may well shape up as a business, trim fat and get sharp with a few things, but not with hankering to the past like you are.

FYI: Go & have a look at TAB Australia is you want to see a shitty website, its a dog to find your way around.

 

[Huey]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

I don't have an issue with the website, works perfectly fine for me. I watch feeds all Sat and Sun on my PC & its great. Mind you I have a fast processor, stacks of RAM & fibre 1000 so you could say if I am having issues then everyone will.

You need to take your own advice about bubbles, you spend far to much time worrying about the D & E customers, smart business focuses on the A & B with a bit of interest in the C customers, leaving the D & E to tag along if they desire. Now don't get me wrong here, D & E can be very profitable but only on the right terms & with little direct involvement from a business.

Finally the TAB with Covid may well shape up as a business, trim fat and get sharp with a few things, but not with hankering to the past like you are.

FYI: Go & have a look at TAB Australia is you want to see a shitty website, its a dog to find your way around.

 

I think you over look the peripheral benefits of having customers D&E in particular in large volume, its this kind of thinking that has started the ruination of racing in NZ.  Its these people that assist in building the next generation of race goers , local interest and stories not your A&B customers most of them are gone when they realise how hard it is.

Do TA or Go Racing ignore their D&E customers, no because they know those D&E contribute to their business and some of them will become A,B&C customers. Do you hear them saying customer D&E should not be worried about lets just look after the A&B customers who have huge shares, no thats not how they work and its not how racing works , there is a place for everyone.

Not to mention racing cannot afford to just spit out its D&E customers , its done that with a couple of generations of customers who its tried to ply back with alcohol and parties  to get them to return and guess what its not a long term solution, I think racing would give anything to have D&E customers from those lost generations it would sure help a lot.

I fear this will be the real kick in the teeth for NZ racing once the TAB , racing clubs and Pubs are torn to pieces they are community hubs and you'll lose huge amounts of interest in the sport by getting rid of them. 

 

[barryb]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

I think you over look the peripheral benefits of having customers D&E in particular in large volume, its this kind of thinking that has started the ruination of racing in NZ.  Its these people that assist in building the next generation of race goers , local interest and stories not your A&B customers most of them are gone when they realise how hard it is.

Do TA or Go Racing ignore their D&E customers, no because they know those D&E contribute to their business and some of them will become A,B&C customers. Do you hear them saying customer D&E should not be worried about lets just look after the A&B customers who have huge shares, no thats not how they work and its not how racing works , there is a place for everyone.

Not to mention racing cannot afford to just spit out its D&E customers , its done that with a couple of generations of customers who its tried to ply back with alcohol and parties  to get them to return and guess what its not a long term solution, I think racing would give anything to have D&E customers from those lost generations it would sure help a lot.

I fear this will be the real kick in the teeth for NZ racing once the TAB , racing clubs and Pubs are torn to pieces they are community hubs and you'll lose huge amounts of interest in the sport by getting rid of them. 

 

Huey you are living in LaLa land, there is no interest in racing now by the general public. Its not the TAB's fault that the interest has waned.

Its boring old farts running racing clubs, trying to make them into exclusive zones etc, they have got there wish now. The sport has become boring to the general public Huey & even an avid racing person like me hardly ever now stays till the end of a race meeting as its so fucking boring. The sport hasn't evolved, its in a time warp of delusion, like your post above.

You hanker for the old days of racing, but they have long gone mate other than 2 weeks over Xmas, I have given ideas that this sport needs to adopt to survive but it wont as to many think like you do. Here's whats needed to reinvigorate itself.

1) 20-25 mins between races

2) Quick fire Friday Night summer meetings over 6 20 min interval races

3) A nationwide jumps carnival over winter

4) Flattening of the stakes with $20k  maidens & R65 & no races above $100k

5) Free Wifi at all tracks

6) All horses sold overseas to attract a 5% surcharge that goes to NZTR

7) Nationwide teams punting comps on a Friday nights races monthly over summer

8  Like pokies, allocate a % of your bet to go into a jackpot pool (online only) that is paid out after the last race to punters whom have the largest % increase in there TAB account. paid proportionally to say the top 20.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by barryb

[Dark Beau]

21 hours ago, barryb said:

Its called progress Huey & if the cost outweighs the benefit then let’s move on. Remember VCRs, DVDs, Cassette tapes, printed photos, Landlines.

I still see Bible’s everywhere when traveling. They are still being printed. Somethings are time-proof, so it seems. ?

[Huey]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

Huey you are living in LaLa land, there is no interest in racing now by the general public. Its not the TAB's fault that the interest has waned.

Its boring old farts running racing clubs, trying to make them into exclusive zones etc, they have got there wish now. The sport has become boring to the general public Huey & even an avid racing person like me hardly ever now stays till the end of a race meeting as its so fucking boring. The sport hasn't evolved, its in a time warp of delusion, like your post above.

You hanker for the old days of racing, but they have long gone mate other than 2 weeks over Xmas, I have given ideas that this sport needs to adopt to survive but it wont as to many think like you do. Here's whats needed to reinvigorate itself.

1) 20-25 mins between races

2) Quick fire Friday Night summer meetings over 6 20 min interval races

3) A nationwide jumps carnival over winter

4) Flattening of the stakes with $20k  maidens & R65 & no races above $100k

5) Free Wifi at all tracks

6) All horses sold overseas to attract a 5% surcharge that goes to NZTR

7) Nationwide teams punting comps on a Friday nights races monthly over summer

8  Like pokies, allocate a % of your bet to go into a jackpot pool (online only) that is paid out after the last race to punters whom have the largest % increase in there TAB account. paid proportionally to say the top 20.

 

Barry you've suggested all this stuff and no one has bad any attention to it, I blame the industry for that. A bet like the industry ignoring the D& E crowd isn't it?

You'll get no argument from me regarding the state of racing and that there are few interested, not sure where you read that in my post but anyway I digress. My point is there isn't a huge following coming in after this last generation , so why alienate the one thats interested? But the industry believes the next generation can be found by ignoring the existing , won't happen not to mention the next generation have no staying power,struggle to cope with losing and want everything now - all qualities you need for racing and punting on horses imho.

I could go on and on about the club situation , but like you I'm over it ,no one listens.

 

[Freda]

Both of you have valid points;  I like all of Barry's ideas, can't see why implementing some or all of them can't be done.  Practically,  the 20-25 minutes might take a bit of a re-think,  but negative attitudes need to be kicked to touch.  Huey does have a point too,  about the traditional following...but implementing  change isn't synonymous with cutting them out.  Again, a bit of thought needed. 

But proactive thinking isn't widely done I'm afraid,  and therein lies the crux of it all.

[Weasel]

On 7/05/2020 at 2:42 PM, Chief Stipe said:

I have it on good authority that the reason they are racing at Ascot Park (Invercargill) and not Wingatui (Dunedin) is that Ascot Park has..........wait for it.......a permanent fibre connection!!!!!!

Great we'll get high definition coverage of the rain drops (buckets?) and mud clods flying!!!!  Of course the majority of starters will have to travel there!

FFS RITA get it sorted!  That doesn't mean fast tracking the installation of a permanent fibre connection at Wingatui either!  What it does mean is reviewing EVERY Strategic Decision made before RITA's inception.  Time to start re-negotiating contracts with your vendors!!!!!

 

and the lack of permanent fibre connection is the reason the best winter racing surface in the north (Ruakaka) is not on the calendar! Ruakaka  hosts at least 4 meetings in June/July, track hardly ever worse than a Dead 6 

[barryb]

42 minutes ago, Weasel said:

and the lack of permanent fibre connection is the reason the best winter racing surface in the north (Ruakaka) is not on the calendar! Ruakaka  hosts at least 4 meetings in June/July, track hardly ever worse than a Dead 6 

It’s too far away, the racing product from there is dreadful and the venue is on par with Avondale.

We have got to stop trying to hang on to these low interest dumps.

[Freda]

On 7/05/2020 at 6:52 PM, nomates said:

I'm still confused about the track closures . Since they announced the closures and which ones are to close i have been trying to find out the actual cost savings to the industry . Can't find any written figures and nobody has been able to answer my repetitive question , what is the actual dollar saving per track to the industry for those earmarked for closure . If someone has it i would appreciate knowing . They must know otherwise it's just a stab in the dark . They wouldn't just pull a figure out of the air would they ?

Yes.

Fits with the notion that they cost money,  but those costs not listed anywhere that I can see.

I've mentioned elsewhere,  that modern H & S requirements must be paramount. If industry money is needed to adhere to those, fair enough, that club should realistically face the firing squad.  But,  if, through prudent mangement there is funding for necessary infrastructure upgrades,  then, why?

And, don't forget, those smaller, oft-criticised clubs/tracks have for years been deprived of the level of turnover funds that the 'strategic' club receive.

But as well,  as Barry mentions above,  if the 'low interest dumps'  aren't getting good patronage, what is the benefit of keeping them at all?

Common sense,  again...a commodity in short supply.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, barryb said:

It’s too far away, the racing product from there is dreadful and the venue is on par with Avondale.

We have got to stop trying to hang on to these low interest dumps.

I have to disagree with your analysis of Ruakaka.

When was the last time you were on course?

I've been on course 3 times in the last 18 months.  Once for their Christmas at the Races day.  The hospitality options were sold out weeks in advance.  We had to go on a waiting list.

The crowd was one of the bigger ones that I've seen in recent times.  The facilities were clean, the food fantastic and the alcohol cheap.  Our group had a great time.  We were in a large room in the main public grandstand.  A glorious view of Bream Bay and the Hen and Chickens.  

I've been twice since (would go more but circumstances don't allow it).  Used their free bus service from Whangarei.  The bus does a circuit of a wide area stops including many of the popular watering holes.  It is usually near full.  Fun on the way home!

Their members and owners facilities seem new and are packed every race meeting.  I have only had the pleasure of viewing from a distance.  

The racing surface is great.  The races competitive considering the dates they get in the season.  Saw Catalyst win the Northland Breeders Stakes.  The placement of the main stand is great for viewing.

Aside from the large number of horses trained on the track many of the big trainers from further south set up satellite stables during the winter to get their horses ready for the spring.

The club involves the local communities and race sponsorship is strong.  Their annual pub vs pub punters challenge is another big day.

The only thing I could find wrong was the winning post.  Aside from the fact my horses didn't often get their first it needs to be bigger.  Maybe that's the problem the horses I backed couldn't see it.

The club is financial and their turn over to stakes ratio is as good as anyone's.

In short I can't knock Ruakaka at all.   What I do know is their local supporters will be a tad pissed off with the decisions.

I would add to that my view was different until I attended the races there.  I used to think that Ruakaka was just a Logan benefit but after doing some in the field research have come to a different conclusion.  Ruakaka is of benefit to racing as a whole and is one of the last bastions of what made racing great in this country.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yes.

Fits with the notion that they cost money,  but those costs not listed anywhere that I can see.

I've mentioned elsewhere,  that modern H & S requirements must be paramount. If industry money is needed to adhere to those, fair enough, that club should realistically face the firing squad.  But,  if, through prudent mangement there is funding for necessary infrastructure upgrades,  then, why?

And, don't forget, those smaller, oft-criticised clubs/tracks have for years been deprived of the level of turnover funds that the 'strategic' club receive.

But as well,  as Barry mentions above,  if the 'low interest dumps'  aren't getting good patronage, what is the benefit of keeping them at all?

Common sense,  again...a commodity in short supply.

The issue is they don't cost the industry anything, they are self sustainable in most respects if they aren't then cut the umbilical chord ans see if they'll survive.

You see there would be any discussion about them staying open if they weren't self sustainable, because the funder would have cut the funding by now now to ensure they weren't so they could close them down, thats the problem they are self sustainable and they are being used .

They would close the lot tomorrow by holding back funding if they were funding them, but they aren't. Thats why they have no analysis around cost savings cause they don't know.

I know you aren't fooled by it Freda , but they are not a drain on the industry at all. Maybe this is what NZ racing is and the only way its sustainable via these smaller venues and not this dreamworld stuff they are trying to sustain.

[Huey]

21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I have to disagree with your analysis of Ruakaka.

When was the last time you were on course?

I've been on course 3 times in the last 18 months.  Once for their Christmas at the Races day.  The hospitality options were sold out weeks in advance.  We had to go on a waiting list.

The crowd was one of the bigger ones that I've seen in recent times.  The facilities were clean, the food fantastic and the alcohol cheap.  Our group had a great time.  We were in a large room in the main public grandstand.  A glorious view of Bream Bay and the Hen and Chickens.  

I've been twice since (would go more but circumstances don't allow it).  Used their free bus service from Whangarei.  The bus does a circuit of a wide area stops including many of the popular watering holes.  It is usually near full.  Fun on the way home!

Their members and owners facilities seem new and are packed every race meeting.  I have only had the pleasure of viewing from a distance.  

The racing surface is great.  The races competitive considering the dates they get in the season.  Saw Catalyst win the Northland Breeders Stakes.  The placement of the main stand is great for viewing.

Aside from the large number of horses trained on the track many of the big trainers from further south set up satellite stables during the winter to get their horses ready for the spring.

The club involves the local communities and race sponsorship is strong.  Their annual pub vs pub punters challenge is another big day.

The only thing I could find wrong was the winning post.  Aside from the fact my horses didn't often get their first it needs to be bigger.  Maybe that's the problem the horses I backed couldn't see it.

The club is financial and their turn over to stakes ratio is as good as anyone's.

In short I can't knock Ruakaka at all.   What I do know is their local supporters will be a tad pissed off with the decisions.

Happens at a lot of courses at that time of year CS. 

There are plenty of good surfaces at that time of year that don't get used, for some reason Ruakaka gets a more than fair suck of the sav, probably because they race during the winter.

I've got nothing against them having meetings, but I agree its seriously boring to watch and its what I'm expecting from the AWT after about 6 months.

The winning post just shows me how much they really care, thats just the worst look. They can't sort that out? Yippee lets take NZ racing to the world!!