Who decides what's best for Racing? Punters, Owners, Trainers, NZTR or the IT Dept at RITA?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Huey said:

for some reason Ruakaka gets a more than fair suck of the sav

Maybe that has something to do with those trainers that set up the satellite stables there during the latter part of the winter.  

9 minutes ago, Huey said:

but I agree its seriously boring to watch

Both you and Barryb say it is boring to watch - why?  How is it much different the rest of New Zealand racing?

10 minutes ago, Huey said:

The winning post just shows me how much they really care, thats just the worst look. They can't sort that out? Yippee lets take NZ racing to the world!!

I agree and I find it strange given the positive things I've seen there.  It makes me think that there is some constraint - technical or otherwise that prevents them from fixing it.  Wouldn't surprise me if it was the TAB saying they can't run a cable out to it!

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

modern H & S requirements must be paramount.

Modern B & S was the requirement for pushing this agenda .

[Huey]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Maybe that has something to do with those trainers that set up the satellite stables there during the latter part of the winter.  

Both you and Barryb say it is boring to watch - why?  How is it much different the rest of New Zealand racing?

I agree and I find it strange given the positive things I've seen there.  It makes me think that there is some constraint - technical or otherwise that prevents them from fixing it.  Wouldn't surprise me if it was the TAB saying they can't run a cable out to it!

Well compare watching racing in the Spring/Summer at Trentham to watching racing at Ruakaka , each to their own but the racing at Ruakaka holds no interest for me, its often dominated by the same trainers, horses tend to lead up and get gifted the race, the only horse that really sticks in my mind making ground up there is Very Elegant for some reason, just my opinion though good luck to you if youre racing there or having a punt.

Doesn't matter what the restraint is NZracing and the club should have got it sorted , a cone for a finishing post whats next some string as the starting gates?

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Huey said:

Well compare watching racing in the Spring/Summer at Trentham to watching racing at Ruakaka

But you are not comparing horses with horses.  Ruakaka doesn't get the Premier funding dates that Trentham gets which is reflected in the horse quality.  Ruakaka only has one Spring meeting and that's the Northland Breeders Stakes day.  I was lucky to see Catalyst win that!

20 minutes ago, Huey said:

its often dominated by the same trainers, horses tend to lead up and get gifted the race,

May I suggest that is more perception than actual fact.  The Christmas at The Races day I told the group I was with that Gibbs/Bradley normally dominate.  By Race 5 they thought I was an idiot and contrary to what they were led to believe I actually knew nothing about horse racing.  Thankfully they abandoned the dominant trainer strategy for the rest of the day!

24 minutes ago, Huey said:

Doesn't matter what the restraint is NZracing and the club should have got it sorted , a cone for a finishing post whats next some string as the starting gates?

I agree although the cone isn't the actual winning post.  The camera angle on TV seems to cut out the winning post and the cone sticks out like a sore thumb.  The only purpose I can see for the cone is perhaps it is a sighter for the jockeys.

[Chief Stipe]

Check out Ruakaka's Jan 5 meeting.  Their Christmas meeting was the same.  

http://www.ruakakaracing.co.nz/Gallery/TabId/10801/emodule/39351/egallery/2167/Default.aspx

Not only do they have a good grass track to train up on in late winter but they have a good synthetic one as well - 150m from the main track - picture below.

[barryb]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I have to disagree with your analysis of Ruakaka.

When was the last time you were on course?

I've been on course 3 times in the last 18 months.  Once for their Christmas at the Races day.  The hospitality options were sold out weeks in advance.  We had to go on a waiting list.

 

I was there last in January 2019 at the Xmas race meeting, its a filthy disgusting dump. Bird shit everywhere, millions of dead flies against window sills in the dining area.

For an entertainment venue its horrendous & unacceptable, similar to Avondale.

 

[barryb]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

its often dominated by the same trainers, horses tend to lead up and get gifted the race, the only horse that really sticks in my mind making ground up there is Very Elegant for some reason, just my opinion though good luck to you if youre racing there or having a punt.

Yes exactly, there is something wrong with the home turn in that anything on pace is as Huey says gifted the race, I am not sure if its a camber issue, maybe its just the tightness of it or possibly the surface means horses cant quicken easily further out. 

As a spectacle its pitiful to watch, I find Avondale races a similar bore as the same thing repeatedly happens there.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, barryb said:

Bird shit everywhere, millions of dead flies against window sills in the dining area.

Sounds like the Viaduct.

4 minutes ago, barryb said:

I was there last in January 2019 at the Xmas race meeting, its a filthy disgusting dump.

I think you are exaggerating somewhat.  People keep going back.  Accept if for what it is - a popular country race track, has had nothing like the subsidies the big tracks have had and one that has the full support of its local and regional community.

[Huey]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But you are not comparing horses with horses.  Ruakaka doesn't get the Premier funding dates that Trentham gets which is reflected in the horse quality.  Ruakaka only has one Spring meeting and that's the Northland Breeders Stakes day.  I was lucky to see Catalyst win that!

 

I;m not comparing Premier racing or the funding model or horse quality , I'm just comparing the state of racing there, the competitiveness of it , the entertainment etc Some country tracks with industry days provide better racing as a spectacle than Trentham might. I was just using Trentham as an example.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

I;m not comparing Premier racing or the funding model or horse quality , I'm just comparing the state of racing there, the competitiveness of it , the entertainment etc Some country tracks with industry days provide better racing as a spectacle than Trentham might. I was just using Trentham as an example.

That's cool Huey.  The point I was making was, granted not very well, we need places like Ruakaka.  If RITA continues with its current strategy then Ruakaka goes.  When I first visited the course on race day I was actually impressed.  Barryb's birdshit and dead flies aside.  It took me back to my Hokitika days.  Actually attending the race meeting for the first time at Hokitika was the first time I ever patted a horse.  Been a curse ever since.

The January 5th 2019 race day which I posted a link to had a foot race for children down the home straight - well not the entire straight.  There looks like 50 kids lined up!  I'm picking that for many that would be their first day at the races.

When was the last time we saw something like that at Ellerslie or Trentham?

[nomates]

All good closing these tracks , but until they get the rest up to standard to handle the extra meetings they are going to be running on them , then no point closing anything , most of the tracks don't stand up to the racing they have on them already . Saying that i think their long term aim is , less tracks , less meetings . In part due to less funding but also ownership reducing and them not knowing how to reverse either problem .

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's cool Huey.  The point I was making was, granted not very well, we need places like Ruakaka.  If RITA continues with its current strategy then Ruakaka goes.  When I first visited the course on race day I was actually impressed.  Barryb's birdshit and dead flies aside.  It took me back to my Hokitika days.  Actually attending the race meeting for the first time at Hokitika was the first time I ever patted a horse.  Been a curse ever since.

The January 5th 2019 race day which I posted a link to had a foot race for children down the home straight - well not the entire straight.  There looks like 50 kids lined up!  I'm picking that for many that would be their first day at the races.

When was the last time we saw something like that at Ellerslie or Trentham?

I'm not suggesting closing it,  I just meant I didn't enjoy the racing there as much as other tracks.  Good luck to them holding race meetings there but they shouldn't get preferential treatment especially in spring summer. 

[Huey]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

All good closing these tracks , but until they get the rest up to standard to handle the extra meetings they are going to be running on them , then no point closing anything , most of the tracks don't stand up to the racing they have on them already . Saying that i think their long term aim is , less tracks , less meetings . In part due to less funding but also ownership reducing and them not knowing how to reverse either problem .

I agree,  but if less meeting etc there needs to be considerable analysis ,future proofing and discussions had to come up with the right decisions. Not just so and so track is in a town and the guy running the club is a great guy etc cause that's about all there has been to date. 

I believe racing needs to move away from the city centres it's relevance is lost there, the cost of operating and restrictions around operating/training are more and several other reasons,  TV is the future for watching racing (if the pandemic hasn't taught us that nothing will) on course attendance not so important and that's been proven before this virus. 

[Dark Beau]

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The January 5th 2019 race day which I posted a link to had a foot race for children down the home straight - well not the entire straight.  There looks like 50 kids lined up!  I'm picking that for many that would be their first day at the races.

When was the last time we saw something like that at Ellerslie or Trentham?

Day 3 of the Wellington Cup Carnival 

[Freda]

My views are probably a bit simplistic...but, I've always thought, we reduce exposure to racing in the regions at our peril. HK , Singapore totally different,  there are no regions to consider.   No point looking at them as a model.  The experience at a country club for  many young people is what has sparked interest and the love of the racehorse, without doubt.  The city experience can't compare for kids.

I'm not sure , now, what percentage of turnover is received by clubs, on or off course,   but there was a time when smaller clubs ( Chittick's graded A, B,C,D clubs) got significantly less, and those clubs deemed  'strategic'  received more.

Reefton reminded me of that fact in an earlier post,  about the facilities at Greymouth compared to the rest of the Coast which didn't get preferential treatment.

Obviously, many of those country clubs have battled on for years with few resources , hardly surprising their structures are rustic, to say the least.

Dead flies aside, nothing wrong with getting a beer from the tractor shed though, as long as it is cold!

Mardi's model has retention of ( say) 30% of funds for upgrades of facilities and tracks on a rotational basis.  

If we accept that there can't be enough funding to upgrade 56 tracks ( which is reasonable IMO )  then, give tracks the choice. No forced closures,   but   these are the standards you must comply with for H & S reasons.  If you can, from your own resources, fine.  If not, then become a tenant club at a suitable venue .

But in the interests of fairness,  all clubs must receive the same percentage of turnover funding.  As it stands now many clubs have been starved of rightful share for years. Bulk funding of stakes has ameliorated that  but leaves nothing for amenity upgrades that have been neglected for years.

I know off the top of my head of two clubs who have - or had - the resources to significantly do upgrades.   Riverton,  a very wealthy club, earns 200k per annually from sale of grass seed alone,  not to mention other income from hay  baleage,  and grazing/ sale of cattle. 

Insane not to retain Riverton. 

Also, Hokitika, with land assets and half a mill in the bank, could also have done significant improvements but probably left that option too late. With enlightened management from both ends ( club and Nztr) that venue could also still be with us.

There will be others without doubt.

The big stick approach just isn't right.  A bit of discussion and thought and solutions can be found, if there's a will.

[Noodlum]

That's a great post Freda.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Noodlum said:

That's a great post Freda.

I agree. Maybe some clubs could have the option of using other venues and/or running unfunded (industry) non-TAB (maybe equalisator) meetings on their home community tracks.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, curious said:

I agree. Maybe some clubs could have the option of using other venues and/or running unfunded (industry) non-TAB (maybe equalisator) meetings on their home community tracks.

If clubs could raise their own stakes AND get a fair cut of turnover why couldn't they be TAB races?

 

[curious]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

If clubs could raise their own stakes AND get a fair cut of turnover why couldn't they be TAB races?

 

Possibly could.

 

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

Day 3 of the Wellington Cup Carnival 

No pictures on the website.  Now there's a marketing opportunity.

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Obviously, many of those country clubs have battled on for years with few resources , hardly surprising their structures are rustic, to say the least.

 

But mostly functional and it doesn't seem to worry those who attend.  For viewing the races the Hokitika grandstand was one of the best and you didn't have to pay to use it!

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Dead flies aside, nothing wrong with getting a beer from the tractor shed though, as long as it is cold!

 

At least the flies were dead!  Exactly even if the beer was dripping with water from the ice in the chilly bin and handed to you by a hairy legged prop forward from the local rugby club who are splitting the profits with the racing club.

Or Percy "Pie" Hurrens tin shed at the back of stand where you could get pies made early on the morning of race day.

5 hours ago, Freda said:

If we accept that there can't be enough funding to upgrade 56 tracks ( which is reasonable IMO )  then, give tracks the choice. No forced closures,   but   these are the standards you must comply with for H & S reasons.  If you can, from your own resources, fine.  If not, then become a tenant club at a suitable venue .

 

Again spot on.  Plus the smaller communities all know someone who knows someone to fix things.

 

5 hours ago, Freda said:

I know off the top of my head of two clubs who have - or had - the resources to significantly do upgrades.   Riverton,  a very wealthy club, earns 200k per annually from sale of grass seed alone,  not to mention other income from hay  baleage,  and grazing/ sale of cattle. 

Insane not to retain Riverton. 

 

Yes RITA want to close it and grab that cash in the bank and sell the assets to fund their largesse.

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Also, Hokitika, with land assets and half a mill in the bank, could also have done significant improvements but probably left that option too late. With enlightened management from both ends ( club and Nztr) that venue could also still be with us.

 

Really?  All from ONE race meeting a year?  As I've said many times before it was Hokitika where as a kid I was first introduced to racing.

Which reminds me of our family's annual trip to Nelson for the trots in January each year.  We did that pilgrimage from Hokitika to Nelson for what must have been 15 years in a row.  Only stopped when my parents moved there.  Well the pilgrimage didn't stop rather the journey was cut down from 320 km to 10 km!  

I had the pleasure of taking my young daughter to the same meeting a couple of times.  A very large group of friends and families from Canterbury used to converge on the Mapua camping ground every summer (20km from the Richmond race track).  Two of the families had harness racing connections - one had a son who is a very good harness driver and myself who had relatives that have trained in the Nelson region since harness racing started there.  A great holiday where we took over a large corner of the camping ground.  A large number of children in the party ranging from babies through to teenagers who fortunately came from big families and didn't mind baby sitting.

So one of the regular events was to get everyone glammed up (well just a notch or two up from camping ground standard we weren't fashion in the field types!) and head to the races.  Now the Richmond Race track facilities would be viewed by some as rustic but from memory similar to Ruakaka.  We didn't care given we were camping.  Technically I was operating as a solo dad (some would call it rent-a-kid) and I took great pride in dressing my daughter (never had a doll as a child!).  Below is a picture of her touching her first harness racing horse at the Nelson trots.  OK it is a miniature version of the real thing but she got to meet children gearing these horses up and wearing silks and to her there was no difference to the real thing.  The point is she made a connection with racing.  She even helped me pick out bets and I gave her a couple of dollars a race as part of her maths education.  I'm convinced that such tutorials have been influential in her being very very good at College.

What pisses me off is the lot in charge DON'T understand NZ racing and what made it great.  What's more over the years they have pissed away OUR reserves and made us insolvent.  Thankfully they didn't get their hands of Westland Racing's $500,000!

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

Note the stable isn't up to Ellerslie standards but it is functional!  Oh and you were still allowed to walk down around them then.

[the galah]

The clubs under threat of closure simply need to be given set standards they have to meet. E.g minimum stakes,yearly profitability,local community participation levels,etc  Sink or swim.

The chance to survive given on the acceptance by the smaller clubs that there are to be changes and the bulk of industry funding will be given to the clubs the industry has deemed  strategically necessary,that they(Clubs under threat) are to get reduced funding,and should they fail all assets to be transferred to their governing bodies.

It  has to be a compromise based on the realisation from the smaller clubs that they have been dealt a hand that puts there existence in question. If they don't accept that that they will be closed. 

Minimum stakes the smaller clubs have to offer need to be slightly reduced and if trainers/owners don't supply the numbers then thats just the way it goes. 

There needs to be  tracks which are given funding on the grounds that they are strategically needed as training tracks. 

To me the problem in racing is not only the poor use of industry funds,but also it just pays out too much in stakes. Everyone moans about the stakes levels,but expects clubs to spend more than their income to maintain them. I'm with an earlier poster that said a cap on maximum stakes so as to maintain a minimum stake and bulk participation.

Edited May 9, 2020 by the galah

[Freda]

19 minutes ago, the galah said:

The clubs under threat of closure simply need to be given set standards they have to meet. E.g minimum stakes,yearly profitability,local community participation levels,etc  Sink or swim.

The chance to survive given on the acceptance by the smaller clubs that there are to be changes and the bulk of industry funding will be given to the clubs the industry has deemed  strategically necessary,that they(Clubs under threat) are to get reduced funding,and should they fail all assets to be transferred to their governing bodies.

It  has to be a compromise based on the realisation from the smaller clubs that they have been dealt a hand that puts there existence in question. If they don't accept that that they will be closed. 

Minimum stakes the smaller clubs have to offer need to be slightly reduced and if trainers/owners don't supply the numbers then thats just the way it goes. 

There needs to be  tracks which are given funding on the grounds that they are strategically needed as training tracks. 

To me the problem in racing is not only the poor use of industry funds,but also it just pays out too much in stakes. Everyone moans about the stakes levels,but expects clubs to spend more than their income to maintain them. I'm with an earlier poster that said a cap on maximum stakes so as to maintain a minimum stake and bulk participation.

Stakes are bulk funded by NZTR.  The club doesn't [ these days ] have to find the money.  If a club chooses - or is forced - to give away racing at its own track and use another deemed more suitable,  the stakes funding and meeting payment also goes with it to the alternative track.  So no savings there.

Anyway, under current straitened circumstances, the existence or otherwise of clubs other than the few designated under the 'new' calendar, will be an historical fact.

Consign it all to fond memories.    Without radical restructuring, there will not be funding for anything much at all.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Freda

[Freda]

31 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But mostly functional and it doesn't seem to worry those who attend.  For viewing the races the Hokitika grandstand was one of the best and you didn't have to pay to use it!

At least the flies were dead!  Exactly even if the beer was dripping with water from the ice in the chilly bin and handed to you by a hairy legged prop forward from the local rugby club who are splitting the profits with the racing club.

Or Percy "Pie" Hurrens tin shed at the back of stand where you could get pies made early on the morning of race day.

Again spot on.  Plus the smaller communities all know someone who knows someone to fix things.

 

Yes RITA want to close it and grab that cash in the bank and sell the assets to fund their largesse.

Really?  All from ONE race meeting a year?  As I've said many times before it was Hokitika where as a kid I was first introduced to racing.

Which reminds me of our family's annual trip to Nelson for the trots in January each year.  We did that pilgrimage from Hokitika to Nelson for what must have been 15 years in a row.  Only stopped when my parents moved there.  Well the pilgrimage didn't stop rather the journey was cut down from 320 km to 10 km!  

I had the pleasure of taking my young daughter to the same meeting a couple of times.  A very large group of friends and families from Canterbury used to converge on the Mapua camping ground every summer (20km from the Richmond race track).  Two of the families had harness racing connections - one had a son who is a very good harness driver and myself who had relatives that have trained in the Nelson region since harness racing started there.  A great holiday where we took over a large corner of the camping ground.  A large number of children in the party ranging from babies through to teenagers who fortunately came from big families and didn't mind baby sitting.

So one of the regular events was to get everyone glammed up (well just a notch or two up from camping ground standard we weren't fashion in the field types!) and head to the races.  Now the Richmond Race track facilities would be viewed by some as rustic but from memory similar to Ruakaka.  We didn't care given we were camping.  Technically I was operating as a solo dad (some would call it rent-a-kid) and I took great pride in dressing my daughter (never had a doll as a child!).  Below is a picture of her touching her first harness racing horse at the Nelson trots.  OK it is a miniature version of the real thing but she got to meet children gearing these horses up and wearing silks and to her there was no difference to the real thing.  The point is she made a connection with racing.  She even helped me pick out bets and I gave her a couple of dollars a race as part of her maths education.  I'm convinced that such tutorials have been influential in her being very very good at College.

What pisses me off is the lot in charge DON'T understand NZ racing and what made it great.  What's more over the years they have pissed away OUR reserves and made us insolvent.  Thankfully they didn't get their hands of Westland Racing's $500,000!

 

 

 

Even the socks tone in with the outfit,  Chief!     Colour co-ordinated.