Track Closures

[the galah]

Reefton, I was also thinking of your example of a bowling club. Where i live there used to be about a dozen. Over the last 10 or so years the 7 or so that have closed have sold their assets and combined with the remaining 5 or so that are left. Thats what bowlers do. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by the galah

[curious]

I think all that is pretty irrelevant anyway isn't it. I can't see RITA staying in business till the end of the year or making any substantive distributions to codes by then. They are insolvent and have nothing in place or pending to improve net revenue year on year. It will likely be half last year, if that. Arguing about club assets seems a bit moot to me in that environment.

[curious]

1 minute ago, the galah said:

I was also thinking of your example of a bowling club. Where i live there used to be about a dozen. Over the last 10 or so years the 7 or so that have closed have sold their assets and combined with the remaining 5 or so that are left. Thats what bowlers do. 

What? reinvest their assets in a declining industry? Smart. Hopefully racing won't follow the stupidity inherent in that model.

Edited May 16, 2020 by curious

[the galah]

10 minutes ago, curious said:

What? reinvest their assets in a declining industry? Smart.

So the alternative is give up bowls and sit at home or go to the pub all day? Thats not what a true bowling enthusiast does.

Its just a sport,like many,with similar participation issues to racing. Actually a lot of bowlers like a bet. Bowls  obviously is not only about bowls,but also a place to meet people with similar interests in the club bar after.   A sport with similarities to racing,except they are more accepting of the need for change.

Edited May 16, 2020 by the galah

[curious]

No problem with the clubs merging or conducting their events at one venue if that makes economic sense but the assets of the other clubs are not required for that are they? They can mostly go back to their respective communities. Hokitika is a good example. Returned their primary asset to the community but retained enough funds to conduct meetings at another venue if they want to.

[the galah]

Why would you divest  your assets when you could take them with you and use them to increase your influence at the  club you have now merged/joined. Why would you not want to  help the profitability of the club you now are a significant member of.

[Reefton]

49 minutes ago, the galah said:

I fully understand the sentiment and passion behind such comments, ,but if i was a current member of a rugby  club i wouldn't want our clubs assets going to the plunket society,womens refuge or whatever other organisation you can think of.I just can't see a rugby club behaving like that. Babies or battered woman may be good causes,but rugby is their  passion,thats who they would support.

Like i said,why can't they be an integral part of the club 25 minutes down the road and help direct that club. Its not a them and us thing at all.Its just been made to be that way.  I don't know why some country clubs who are viable can't continue if they want without industry funding if they feel they can,but i can't work out why Auckland needs two racing clubs. 

Dear oh dear I didn’t mean the rugby club’s assets where going to Bowls NZ or Plunket or something I meant that in the hypothetical situation NZ Rugby got legislation to allow it to seize the club assets(which is exactly what NZ Racing is getting).  I tried to get those politicians in the select committee to relate to that scenario in my submission but I suspect they were too thick to understand.

And you can’t know too much about Rugby if you think NZ Rugby could shut down a club and automatically expect all its supporters to go support the next door club.  It is a lot more tribal than racing.

Look at it from Avondale’s perspective.  Ellerslie gets all the good dates and even gets their Avondale Cup and Avondale Guineas.  Avondale gets the shit midweek dates and the winter meetings(when the shithole Ellerslie track cant handle it).  And now to add insult to injury Avondale see their property going to be sold up to prop up the likes of the ARC - I have no argument with Ms Skinner’s sentiments.

And as far as Auckland needing two racing Clubs for about four months in the winter without Avondale it has no racing clubs at all given Ellerslie runs very rarely if ever in that time.

 

[Reefton]

56 minutes ago, the galah said:

Reefton, I was also thinking of your example of a bowling club. Where i live there used to be about a dozen. Over the last 10 or so years the 7 or so that have closed have sold their assets and combined with the remaining 5 or so that are left. Thats what bowlers do. 

The difference is they closed VOLUNTARILY(or through lack of interest or lack of financial viability .  That is different from having closure forced upon them

[Reefton]

57 minutes ago, curious said:

I think all that is pretty irrelevant anyway isn't it. I can't see RITA staying in business till the end of the year or making any substantive distributions to codes by then. They are insolvent and have nothing in place or pending to improve net revenue year on year. It will likely be half last year, if that. Arguing about club assets seems a bit moot to me in that environment.

Agree entirely and I hear some major club CEO’s are filling their pants about where their funding is going to come from.  Because they have always been able to suck on the NZTR/NZRB/RITA tit financially they have never had to worry about where their next lot of dosh is coming from.  Haven’t prepared, haven’t put anything aside for a rainy day and now the grim reaper is on the horizon.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, curious said:

I think all that is pretty irrelevant anyway isn't it. I can't see RITA staying in business till the end of the year or making any substantive distributions to codes by then. They are insolvent and have nothing in place or pending to improve net revenue year on year. It will likely be half last year, if that. Arguing about club assets seems a bit moot to me in that environment.

They way NZ racing is managed now they will simply shrink the racing model to fit the available budget , they have no idea how to increase racing revenue . Last weeks money was simply damage limitation wrapped up in a COVID bow . Next season if the financial profile has deceased they will simply say they have to kill of more " unviable tracks " .

[Reefton]

52 minutes ago, the galah said:

So the alternative is give up bowls and sit at home or go to the pub all day? Thats not what a true bowling enthusiast does.

Its just a sport,like many,with similar participation issues to racing. Actually a lot of bowlers like a bet. Bowls  obviously is not only about bowls,but also a place to meet people with similar interests in the club bar after.   A sport with similarities to racing,except they are more accepting of the need for change.

Reread what I said.

The Rugby or the Bowls Club people are not going to suddenly hate Bowls or Rugby or whatever any more than I am going to suddenly hate racing if they grab our assets.  I might hate those who perpetrate that seizure of property but I am not going to turn on the salt of the earth people that racing is full of.

And the quality and capabilities of those who seek to steal our wealth is being laid bare in the current situation NZ racing is finding itself in.

[nomates]

3 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Agree entirely and I hear some major club CEO’s are filling their pants about where their funding is going to come from.  Because they have always been able to suck on the NZTR/NZRB/RITA tit financially they have never had to worry about where their next lot of dosh is coming from.  Haven’t prepared, haven’t put anything aside for a rainy day and now the grim reaper is on the horizon.

I said if they put out next seasons dates with no declaration of stakes then be prepared for decent cuts . I will be surprised if they can maintain the 10K min .

[Reefton]

45 minutes ago, the galah said:

Why would you divest  your assets when you could take them with you and use them to increase your influence at the  club you have now merged/joined. Why would you not want to  help the profitability of the club you now are a significant member of.

Avondale are not being invited to merge with the ARC they are being told they(Avondale) are finished and that their assets are going to be taken.  Had they voluntarily ceased racing on their course that is an entirely different issue.

Worth remembering though the case of the North Canterbury Racing Club which allowed the CJC to take over its administration and race days and has ended up having the CJC owning its course in somewhat dodgy circumstances(as I understand)

[Reefton]

5 minutes ago, nomates said:

I said if they put out next seasons dates with no declaration of stakes then be prepared for decent cuts . I will be surprised if they can maintain the 10K min .

Could well be right.  I haven’t really thought of the stakes situation for next year but I imagine the RITA crew don’t give an f so long as their fat salaries get paid on Thursday.

[Ronaldo]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

I fully understand the sentiment and passion behind such comments, ,but if i was a current member of a rugby  club i wouldn't want our clubs assets going to the plunket society,womens refuge or whatever other organisation you can think of.I just can't see a rugby club behaving like that. Babies or battered woman may be good causes,but rugby is their  passion,thats who they would support.

Like i said,why can't they be an integral part of the club 25 minutes down the road and help direct that club. Its not a them and us thing at all.Its just been made to be that way.  I don't know why some country clubs who are viable can't continue if they want without industry funding if they feel they can,but i can't work out why Auckland needs two racing clubs. 

Maybe because one of them shuts down for months over the winter months. I think they have more trials at Avondale than any where  else  and it provides great winter footing.   Either that or shoot all the way to Ruakaka.    Look at this way,  these   sleazy gutter snipes have squandered multi millions on an excuse for a betting  web site , failed  betting schemes the Mad Hatter couldn't have dreamed   up. put nothing into maintaining tracks,  in essence  have buggered all they have touched. Now you hand over  the  assets a club has built up over a hundred years and trust them to do the right thing  and not see all that cash   just vanish into the void ?   No wonder, they are not trusted, the same overpaid  noddy's are still there.     In the end it is up to no one but the 200 member's to make a decision..  Personally with National saying this is no one's plan but Winston's and they would change it , I  think the AJC will hope to drag it out legally until beyond the election, hoping for a change of government. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Ronaldo

[the galah]

34 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Avondale are not being invited to merge with the ARC they are being told they(Avondale) are finished and that their assets are going to be taken.  Had they voluntarily ceased racing on their course that is an entirely different issue.

Worth remembering though the case of the North Canterbury Racing Club which allowed the CJC to take over its administration and race days and has ended up having the CJC owning its course in somewhat dodgy circumstances(as I understand)

That is why i have continued to say Avondale need to be proactive and make the best of the situation they find themselves in. Tell me why can't they say"we will voluntary transfer our assets to the other club on..........these conditions.  Just because rangiora might have negotiated a poor deal doesn't mean other clubs have to.

 

40 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Reread what I said.

The Rugby or the Bowls Club people are not going to suddenly hate Bowls or Rugby or whatever any more than I am going to suddenly hate racing if they grab our assets.  I might hate those who perpetrate that seizure of property but I am not going to turn on the salt of the earth people that racing is full of.

And the quality and capabilities of those who seek to steal our wealth is being laid bare in the current situation NZ racing is finding itself in.

But you are supporting the comments from the avondale jockey club that they would rather give their assets to plunket instead of racing. Thats what their representative said.You said you have no argument with her sentiments.

Rugby clubs do merge.At least they have where i live.  Not that common but there may be a couple more looking to do so soon.

No argument about some of the past decisions by those running racing.. Idiotic some of them,and so obviously so, yet they couldn't see it.Beyond comprehension really. But its created an environment where licenceholders demand more stakemoney yet the clubs can't afford it because that would be spending more that they earn,.

To me,clubs like yours need to look beyond those making the current calls around club assets. Its not only the previous mug decisions from the likes of those who ran the tab  in the last 2-5 years,its also current  trainers/owners demands that racing clubs continue to live beyond their means that has helped create this situation.

I have sympathy for the clubs as to the situation they find themselves in,but get a bit tired of there being no acceptance from  so many racing sectors that they can't turn back the clock and just have to move forward. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by the galah

[billy connolly]

50 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Worth remembering though the case of the North Canterbury Racing Club which allowed the CJC to take over its administration and race days and has ended up having the CJC owning its course in somewhat dodgy circumstances(as I understand)

An aberration and an indictment on the fools who signed off Rangiora's jewels to the CJC - regretfully, some of the same personnel responsible are now/were incumbent CJC committee members.

Rangiora's land value has sky-rocketed in recent times. 

[All The Aces]

11 hours ago, Reefton said:

Avondale are not being invited to merge with the ARC they are being told they(Avondale) are finished and that their assets are going to be taken.  Had they voluntarily ceased racing on their course that is an entirely different issue.

Worth remembering though the case of the North Canterbury Racing Club which allowed the CJC to take over its administration and race days and has ended up having the CJC owning its course in somewhat dodgy circumstances(as I understand)

Incorrect. Avondale have refused to engage in any dialogue about merging with Auckland and/or Counties which was put to them following the Messara Report in July 2018.   

[Chief Stipe]

11 hours ago, the galah said:

To me,clubs like yours need to look beyond those making the current calls around club assets. Its not only the previous mug decisions from the likes of those who ran the tab  in the last 2-5 years,its also current  trainers/owners demands that racing clubs continue to live beyond their means that has helped create this situation.

I have sympathy for the clubs as to the situation they find themselves in,but get a bit tired of there being no acceptance from  so many racing sectors that they can't turn back the clock and just have to move forward. 

Why close clubs that are not costing the industry anything?  That's what's happening.  So the central administrators are ripping the heart out of the industry to try and make the central tracks profitable.  Good luck with that.

[Weasel]

14 hours ago, Reefton said:

Dear oh dear I didn’t mean the rugby club’s assets where going to Bowls NZ or Plunket or something I meant that in the hypothetical situation NZ Rugby got legislation to allow it to seize the club assets(which is exactly what NZ Racing is getting).  I tried to get those politicians in the select committee to relate to that scenario in my submission but I suspect they were too thick to understand.

And you can’t know too much about Rugby if you think NZ Rugby could shut down a club and automatically expect all its supporters to go support the next door club.  It is a lot more tribal than racing.

Look at it from Avondale’s perspective.  Ellerslie gets all the good dates and even gets their Avondale Cup and Avondale Guineas.  Avondale gets the shit midweek dates and the winter meetings(when the shithole Ellerslie track cant handle it).  And now to add insult to injury Avondale see their property going to be sold up to prop up the likes of the ARC - I have no argument with Ms Skinner’s sentiments.

And as far as Auckland needing two racing Clubs for about four months in the winter without Avondale it has no racing clubs at all given Ellerslie runs very rarely if ever in that time.

 

I have very limited sympathy for Avondale JC members, who have consistently failed to address the 'elephant in the room' - ie their appalling facilities, starting with the main Grandstand from Hell. A disgrace and symbolic of the decline in the  Club's fortunes.  Is there a good reason why they have not bowled it over long before now and built a new one?  Don't tell me...no money!?

Best thing they can do at Avondale now is sell the land, negotiate the best deal for members into a merged NEW ORGANISATION with Auckland RC and/or Counties, pool their resources, and INVEST IN NEW FACILITIES/SERVICES at the TWO courses that will be used over the next 50+ years.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by Weasel

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Weasel said:

I have very limited sympathy for Avondale JC members, who have consistently failed to address the 'elephant in the room' - ie their appalling facilities, starting with the main Grandstand from Hell. A disgrace and symbolic of the decline in the  Club's fortunes.  Is there a good reason why they have not bowled it over long before now and built a new one?

Why the fixation on On-course facilities?  

[Weasel]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why close clubs that are not costing the industry anything?  That's what's happening.  So the central administrators are ripping the heart out of the industry to try and make the central tracks profitable.  Good luck with that.

you have to have at least one 'flagship' track/club in your biggest city...but you don't need three in a population of 1.5m or whatever Greater Auckland is. Avondale has by far the worst, ugliest facilities of the three in the big smoke. ad the land is worth a fortune for housing. You HAVE  to grow/ improve Ellerslie site. Money from Avondale asset (land) could be used to make Ellerslie like Randwick, with Counties the back-up. If Avondale JC members are too 'tribal' to take the sensible option, they deserve what's purportedly coming at them - compulsory acquisition.!

[Chief Stipe]

Is the new synthetic track in Cambridge going to have a new grandstand?

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Weasel said:

If Avondale JC members are too 'tribal' to take the sensible option, they deserve what's purportedly coming at them - compulsory acquisition.!

I don't think even this Govenrment will be able to pass a law acquiring Avondales assets.

[Weasel]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why the fixation on On-course facilities?  

Because Ellerslie doesnt need to pull its Grandstand(s) down ans has invested in upgrading facilities. If Avondale had done the prudent thing 20-30 years ago - built decent facilities for its members and racegoers - it' would've had a stronger case for retention as a venue going forward. But its heed is now above the parapet as an obvious target for rationalisation.