Track Closures

[Weasel]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Is the new synthetic track in Cambridge going to have a new grandstand?

dont know, but crowd size at provincial meetings is not as much an issue as facilities for major carnivals/days. Why did they modernise Randwick in the last 5 years? PROGRESSIVE PLANNING/THINKING AHEAD. centralising resources/facilities in appropriate places.

NZ does not need more than 2 racetracks in Greater Auckland, but if the showcase carnivals for the forseeable are going to include Auckland (and they must, cos that's where most people live), Avondale has to go, cos its got the least going for it ad the most going against it.

[Chief Stipe]

But Avondale going isn't going to make any difference to racing in Auckland.  Unless a law is passed that acquires their assets or the club decides to sell and hands over the proceeds.

If either of those happen then that money will go into the RITA black hole.

[Ronaldo]

17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But Avondale going isn't going to make any difference to racing in Auckland.  Unless a law is passed that acquires their assets or the club decides to sell and hands over the proceeds.

If either of those happen then that money will go into the RITA black hole.

Yes as I said before " the  void "   They have been screwed over so many times before. They get stuck with Wednesday dates with no man and his dog there,  then they wanted to increase stakes and were told weekday stakes had to remain at certain level, were offered their two big races back by ARC but that got knocked back.   Why in God's name should they trust this Winston led rabble to follow through on anything ?    It was mentioned somewhere that they had their eyes on ARC land next, probably the steeplechase hill.  That will be alright to just seize as well ?    I would assume with lawyers on the committee, they would  have enough nous to make sure this things drags on for a long time to come.    You would think as soon as a law change comes, they will slap on injunction.

[curious]

3 hours ago, All The Aces said:

Incorrect. Avondale have refused to engage in any dialogue about merging with Auckland and/or Counties which was put to them following the Messara Report in July 2018.   

The Messara report did not recommend that they merge with ARC. It recommended they not be issued with a licence and that they should race either at Ellerslie or Pukekohe. It also recommended there assets be sold for the benefit of the industry which what they clearly are not keen on.

There is very little sign of the powers that be following the venue or for that matter many of the recommendations in the Messara report.

Edited May 17, 2020 by curious

[curious]

42 minutes ago, curious said:

The Messara report did not recommend that they merge with ARC. It recommended they not be issued with a licence and that they should race either at Ellerslie or Pukekohe. It also recommended there assets be sold for the benefit of the industry which what they clearly are not keen on.

There is very little sign of the powers that be following the venue or for that matter many of the recommendations in the Messara report.

I just don't understand their thinking here. The clear advice from Messara was to retain at least one track in each region. He said variously pretty much the same thing about these.

Te Teko: Helps to retain racing in the Bay of Plenty.

Gisborne: Retains racing in the Gisborne region. (and Wairoa is supposed to race there)

Marlborough: Closing would deny the Marlborough region a racing venue and there is no nearby alternative.

RITA seem to have ignored this advice. How the f&*K could they do that? They have a clear instruction from the Minister to operationalise the Messara report and retaining at least one track in each region was a key part of that. I sure hope the Minister will be asking some serious questions.

[Huey]

17 hours ago, the galah said:

So the alternative is give up bowls and sit at home or go to the pub all day? Thats not what a true bowling enthusiast does.

Its just a sport,like many,with similar participation issues to racing. Actually a lot of bowlers like a bet. Bowls  obviously is not only about bowls,but also a place to meet people with similar interests in the club bar after.   A sport with similarities to racing,except they are more accepting of the need for change.

Or the alternative is to leave the club assets alone and let people get on with what they have been doing for years, i.e. providing free product to the industry.

[Huey]

17 hours ago, curious said:

No problem with the clubs merging or conducting their events at one venue if that makes economic sense but the assets of the other clubs are not required for that are they? They can mostly go back to their respective communities. Hokitika is a good example. Returned their primary asset to the community but retained enough funds to conduct meetings at another venue if they want to.

Not to mention that should be the clubs decision to make, not the industry making it for them.

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, curious said:

RITA seem to have ignored this advice. How the f&*K could they do that? They have a clear instruction from the Minister to operationalise the Messara report and retaining at least one track in each region was a key part of that. I sure hope the Minister will be asking some serious questions.

He said in his latest hand out speech "That there will remain at least one race track in each province" 

 

[Huey]

15 hours ago, the galah said:

That is why i have continued to say Avondale need to be proactive and make the best of the situation they find themselves in. Tell me why can't they say"we will voluntary transfer our assets to the other club on..........these conditions.  Just because rangiora might have negotiated a poor deal doesn't mean other clubs have to.

 

But you are supporting the comments from the avondale jockey club that they would rather give their assets to plunket instead of racing. Thats what their representative said.You said you have no argument with her sentiments.

Rugby clubs do merge.At least they have where i live.  Not that common but there may be a couple more looking to do so soon.

No argument about some of the past decisions by those running racing.. Idiotic some of them,and so obviously so, yet they couldn't see it.Beyond comprehension really. But its created an environment where licenceholders demand more stakemoney yet the clubs can't afford it because that would be spending more that they earn,.

To me,clubs like yours need to look beyond those making the current calls around club assets. Its not only the previous mug decisions from the likes of those who ran the tab  in the last 2-5 years,its also current  trainers/owners demands that racing clubs continue to live beyond their means that has helped create this situation.

I have sympathy for the clubs as to the situation they find themselves in,but get a bit tired of there being no acceptance from  so many racing sectors that they can't turn back the clock and just have to move forward. 

If Avondale agreed to a merger with the ARC within 3 years they would get shafted somewhere along the line by the industry or the ARC, do you honestly expect them to trust the people who have been doing their best to get rid of them for years? 

[Huey]

4 hours ago, All The Aces said:

Incorrect. Avondale have refused to engage in any dialogue about merging with Auckland and/or Counties which was put to them following the Messara Report in July 2018.   

Engage in dialogue - Get shafted by the industry

They obviously ain't stupid.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Weasel said:

I have very limited sympathy for Avondale JC members, who have consistently failed to address the 'elephant in the room' - ie their appalling facilities, starting with the main Grandstand from Hell. A disgrace and symbolic of the decline in the  Club's fortunes.  Is there a good reason why they have not bowled it over long before now and built a new one?  Don't tell me...no money!?

Best thing they can do at Avondale now is sell the land, negotiate the best deal for members into a merged NEW ORGANISATION with Auckland RC and/or Counties, pool their resources, and INVEST IN NEW FACILITIES/SERVICES at the TWO courses that will be used over the next 50+ years.  

I have little sympathy for anyone who can't see the excuse about Grandstands is nothing more than a White Elephant excuse to justify closing tracks down, the tracks are what matters, good tracks providing good competitive racing surfaces.

ARC have plenty of dining facilities etc, yet no one goes apart from 3 days a year.

TV is the future and the grandstands do nothing improve the TV experience for a worldwide punting audience.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo said:

Yes as I said before " the  void "   They have been screwed over so many times before. They get stuck with Wednesday dates with no man and his dog there,  then they wanted to increase stakes and were told weekday stakes had to remain at certain level, were offered their two big races back by ARC but that got knocked back.   Why in God's name should they trust this Winston led rabble to follow through on anything ?    It was mentioned somewhere that they had their eyes on ARC land next, probably the steeplechase hill.  That will be alright to just seize as well ?    I would assume with lawyers on the committee, they would  have enough nous to make sure this things drags on for a long time to come.    You would think as soon as a law change comes, they will slap on injunction.

Exactly then some people are telling them they need a flash stand to cater for the shite dates they get given.

[curious]

45 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

He said in his latest hand out speech "That there will remain at least one race track in each province" 

 

RITA obviously have a better plan than either he or Messara do. I'm curious to find out what it is.

[All The Aces]

1 hour ago, curious said:

The Messara report did not recommend that they merge with ARC. It recommended they not be issued with a licence and that they should race either at Ellerslie or Pukekohe. It also recommended there assets be sold for the benefit of the industry which what they clearly are not keen on.

There is very little sign of the powers that be following the venue or for that matter many of the recommendations in the Messara report.

The point is Curious that the ARC flatly refused to engage in any discussions whatsoever of any merger etc. Merely have dug their toes in the stand and be in complete denial.  

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/113650896/the-punters-of-avondale-racecourse-are-gearing-up-for-a-fight-for-survival

 

This model is being recommended around the country, with tracks like Manawatu's Awapuni and Canterbury's Riccarton set to inherit the racedays of nearby condemned courses. The Waipa Racing Club, the Waikato Racing Club and the Cambridge Jockey Club are considering a merger that would make their respective three tracks – in Te Awamutu, Hamilton's Te Rapa, and Cambridge – obsolete.

Saundry encourages the collaboration: "Racing clubs are not competitors," he says.

"We've got enough competition for the disposable dollar from the casino, a golf club membership, or an overseas trip."

But the AJC has shunned invitations to meet with its Auckland brethren, Ellerslie's Auckland Racing Club (ARC) and Pukekohe's Counties Racing Club (CRC), to discuss their collective future, says ARC's president Paul Wilcox. He accuses the Westies of parochialism.

"We're saying 'let's get together and work as a group for the betterment of the industry as a whole', but it seems like Avondale's not wanting to come to the table."

 

[curious]

That's totally the right of the AJC to determine. The committee are accountable to the members and they determine the way forward. What would be the point of meeting with those other clubs given their licences have been taken away. The only point would be if they had licences and wanted to negotiate where they would race those dates. The proposed legislation is aimed at taking away the rights of the club (and others) to determine the use of their own assets, actually to take them away altogether. That is not what the Messara report recommended.

[All The Aces]

Of course it their right not to engage at all but it shows a distinct lack of business acumen to not even look at or consider any options.

A group discussion may well have provided them with ideas/options to discuss that their singular committee may not have thought of. Surely it wouldn't have hurt to sit and down and discuss with all involved instead of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Look where they are now.  

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, All The Aces said:

Of course it their right not to engage at all but it shows a distinct lack of business acumen to not even look at or consider any options.

A group discussion may well have provided them with ideas/options to discuss that their singular committee may not have thought of. Surely it wouldn't have hurt to sit and down and discuss with all involved instead of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Look where they are now.  

Sitting on a shyte load of assets.

They only have to look at the outcome to date of RACE Inc. in the Central Districts.  Get out of that after joining is akin to Brexit.

[curious]

15 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

Of course it their right not to engage at all but it shows a distinct lack of business acumen to not even look at or consider any options.

 

Who said they were not looking at options?

[nomates]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Sitting on a shyte load of assets.

They only have to look at the outcome to date of RACE Inc. in the Central Districts.  Get out of that after joining is akin to Brexit.

Go ask the Levin RC  members  whether they are pleased that they never joined the RACE shyte fest . Race only wanted LRC for their assets .

[curious]

4 minutes ago, nomates said:

Go ask the Levin RC  members  whether they are pleased that they never joined the RACE shyte fest . Race only wanted LRC for their assets .

Foxton members would say the same I'd say. As the CS said, Avondale $200m+ of assets. RACE, what, $5m+ of debt and that guaranteed by the insolvent RITA. I wonder what their lenders are thinking.

[nomates]

15 minutes ago, curious said:

Foxton members would say the same I'd say. As the CS said, Avondale $200m+ of assets. RACE, what, $5m+ of debt and that guaranteed by the insolvent RITA. I wonder what their lenders are thinking.

If Avondale came to the party , would all 3 form a consortium ? , i.e . Auckland District Racing Group . Would all 3 have equal say ? . Or as many of the sceptics surmise would ARC just want to swallow up and control ? . This is where any club would be worried . The LEVIN/OTAKI consortium was never a completely comfortable fit . 

[Chief Stipe]

If I was any club that isn't amongst the chosen few I'd be sitting tight - mothball what you don't need to keep the track as a training facility.  Keep the cash in the bank and wait.

RITA is still insolvent even with the handout.  Eventually they will be needing you more than they need you.

[Chief Stipe]

Out of interest I've taken a snapshot from Google Maps showing where the Cambridge Synthetic track is going.  Note - no public facilities as yet.  Heaps of stables but they are already taken by the Waikato elite.  The red marker is Tony Pike's Racing Stables.

I thought they were going to save money by being Tri-code?

[Chief Stipe]

Cambridge Jockey Club I assume will acquire the asset of the new synthetic track.  I've attached their annual report below. 

From my reading of that report the Cambridge Jockey Club could have financed their own Synthetic track.  However they have been funded out of the Provincial Growth Fund (Peter's and Jones's lolly bag) - how does the building of the Synthetic Track add to Provincial Growth?  Over 1,000 horses a month are trained on the track - how could they fit anymore in?

 

 

BC10065250658.PDF

[the galah]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

If Avondale came to the party , would all 3 form a consortium ? , i.e . Auckland District Racing Group . Would all 3 have equal say ? . Or as many of the sceptics surmise would ARC just want to swallow up and control ? . This is where any club would be worried . The LEVIN/OTAKI consortium was never a completely comfortable fit . 

Australian turf club .different but some similarities?

Edited May 17, 2020 by the galah