Freda Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Reefton said: As I said I would have that track every day over the shit hole that Riccarton quickly turns into with a shower of rain. Thats the one point that you, Pitty and I DO agree on. When irrigated ( I dont recall seeing any evidence of that last week but assume that some was applied ) or rained upon the consistency is variable and the top chips out badly...not conducive to either soundness, or confidence to gallop freely. I asked a few jockeys what they thought, hard, they all said, and Racha Cuneen also added that the top inch or so was shifty. There were 12 winners and of course those connections will be non-critical. But there will be plenty in behind much less happy. Many trainers / owners cop criticism for flocking to provincial meetings on industry days and passing up the better stakes at S.I headquarters. Isn't the reason obvious? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 8:58 PM, Pitman said: Why would you go to Oz when there is a $500k race on home track in 5 weeks and others to suit Probably because it's easy pickings when many won't risk their horses on that track. There's a fair number of good owners, trainers and horses moved away since they rooted it (or should I say unrooted it?) 20 some years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitman Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Most shifted for financial reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Freda said: When irrigated ( I dont recall seeing any evidence of that last week but assume that some was applied ) 20 mm was applied. 16mm on Tuesday and 4mm on Thursday of irrigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 You don't get it, IMO, but hey, as I said, its a democracy, thank God for that, and at least we can say what we think, can't we......oh, without viciousness, good luck for the long summer ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Freda said: Thats the one point that you, Pitty and I DO agree on. When irrigated ( I dont recall seeing any evidence of that last week but assume that some was applied ) or rained upon the consistency is variable and the top chips out badly...not conducive to either soundness, or confidence to gallop freely. I asked a few jockeys what they thought, hard, they all said, and Racha Cuneen also added that the top inch or so was shifty. There were 12 winners and of course those connections will be non-critical. But there will be plenty in behind much less happy. Many trainers / owners cop criticism for flocking to provincial meetings on industry days and passing up the better stakes at S.I headquarters. Isn't the reason obvious? It was stated that there was irrigation applied on the NZTR website last week Pam. And the reason some Trainers dodge those days at Riccarton with some horses is pretty obvious as well - as DP Wilson was famously quoted 'keep yourself in town hall company and your horse out of it'. Let's wait and see how the noms go next time - if you lot are all right and I am wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) the October 24th fields should be absolutely decimated with Trainers refusing to line their horses up - we'll see. Course the CJC might bow to the pressure and produce a track where they are all heading for the outside rail - doesn't that do wonders for the image and attractiveness of NZ racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Reefton said: Let's wait and see how the noms go next time - if you lot are all right and I am wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) the October 24th fields should be absolutely decimated with Trainers refusing to line their horses up - we'll see. That's a spurious indicator Reefton. Trainers don't have that many options now in the South - you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: That's a spurious indicator Reefton. Trainers don't have that many options now in the South - you know that. Oh yes they do - in fact if it is that bad they have an obligation to their owners not to run their horses there. You lot have been whinging about the state of that track and how all these horses are on the verge of breakdown due to its hardness. Well if that is true then there will be a lot less nominations pure and simple. So let's see the proof in the pudding. Though with all this moaning I can see the CJC producing something with about ten different ratings in different places on the track and the day being turned into a(nother) lottery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Reefton said: If it(NZ Racing) is that big a disaster why take any interest in it? I can't speak for anyone else but I still have some vestiges of passion for the game. However as you have admitted on this forum the decisions that have been made and are continuing to be made has diminished that passion for NZ racing. Just like it has for you. 8 hours ago, Reefton said: If Aussie is so far superior I am astonished you even give NZ racing a second glance. Well unless you are oncourse in NZ you have not option but to see the stark contrast between a premier meeting at Riccarton and a plethora or race meetings from Australia. 8 hours ago, Reefton said: We have a two(?) time NZ premiership winning trainer saying he saw no issues with the track and reporting that all his horses came through unscathed and generally jumping out of their skin the next day(including a two year old which was probably the most at risk of the lot) but all the experts are bagging it. I know who's opinion I would listen to. Pittman has always shown a preference for hard tracks and obviously has the training regime to support that approach. Congrats that he told you as his trainer that all his horses are jumping out of their skin the next day. BTW your 2yr old only ran 800m on a track that hadn't gone off at that stage. 8 hours ago, Reefton said: I think your unease about the AWT at Riccarton is spilling over into being critical about every thing there. For me personally that is NOT the case. I have consistently expressed my concerns about the state of the turf tracks in New Zealand and have often commented on Riccarton. Again I will state that in my opinion the turf track at Riccarton needs a significant renovation. Why spend $16m on an AWT when you have that issue to address? Where is the money going to come from? 8 hours ago, Reefton said: As I said I would have that track every day over the shit hole that Riccarton quickly turns into with a shower of rain. Reefton - that "shit hole" is the same track. The "shit hole" you describe is a symptom of the same issue that caused the track to be very hard on Saturday and to be very shift on top as evidenced by the clouds of dust. Don't you get that? The only thing that made the track in your opinion in "good order" was a spell of fine weather! If you and Pitty want to put the future of racing into the hands of the God's then I suggest you book a permanent pew to pray from. To think that they want to race more on it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Reefton said: You lot have been whinging about the state of that track and how all these horses are on the verge of breakdown due to its hardness. I haven't said "horses are on the verge of breakdown due to its hardness" - I've detailed in list points my issues with the track. 14 minutes ago, Reefton said: Well if that is true then there will be a lot less nominations pure and simple. Come on Reefton - you're an accountant you know that there are many variables and it isn't that simple. Trainers have limited choices. The Stakes are unfairly skewed towards Riccarton. They have more race meetings. You don't know how many horses are waiting to fill the gaps left by those that fall away. How many new horses are nominated. Using a "number of horses nominated" as a measure is spurious! A better measure would be days between starts and average number of starts per campaign. Would it be fair to say that Pitty won't start your 2yr old or the 3yr old champ for another 5 weeks? Who knows - afterall it is his call and no-one else's business. BUT I doubt you would want to give any horse 3 starts in 6 weeks on that condition of a track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 A question for some of those local Trainers - has the Track Manager flooded the track with water since the meeting? No significant rain forecast for the next 10 days at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Oh and Reefton your nomination test in the short term isn't going to tell us much given the calendar for the next 5 weeks. Obviously your 2 yr old will have 3 wks off as the next meeting at Riccarton is not until 24 October - a Pearl Series Bonus as well but I don't think you bought into that sweepstake. So the calendar for the South Island in the next 5 weeks: 9 October Phar Lap Raceway, Timaru - $93,000 stakes 16 October Wingatui - $96,000 stakes 18 October Ashburton - $255,000 stakes 24 October Riccarton - $325,000 stakes 29 October Ashburton - $96,000 stakes 3 November Wingatui - $190,000 stakes 7 November Riccarton - $835,000 stakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I don't see this as needing to be a 'you're wrong and I'm right' sort of discussion, unfortunately that happens a lot nowadays, in politics as well as racing, and, indeed, life. Riccarton is the premier track in the South Island, hosting prestige races and basking in the Cup Week success that showcases the best week's racing in the country. So what is wrong with pointing out where [ in our opinions ] things could be improved? Wouldn't it be great if we could all be proud of the place, instead of thinking ' if only...' That is the very mindset that nullifies progress and typifies why we are where we are in the racing scheme of things. It is documented fact that turf tracks are generally looking for remodelling after twenty years use. That some provincial tracks are in quite good condition turf-wise only reflects the reality that they don't get the use that the city ones do [as well as being looked after by farmers, but we won't go there ]. Stating that fact is neither being negative nor mischievous. Rubbishing the opinions of those who subscribe to that same fact is childish and achieves nothing. Installing an allweather will be great for training, but as to whether the [ necessary ] increased revenue happens as a result is moot. Certainly, no figures have yet come to light to show us all where these improvements are coming from. And the Riccarton turf, which will be used on those above-mentioned premier days will still have a questionable structure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 20 hours ago, Pitman said: Not the 1200m they got decidedly quicker fillies race 1.07.90 Wekaforce 1.07.15 oh that’s right track was off!! don’t blame the wind!! You cannot seriously compare the Open to the 3yo fillies to justify your argument. Race 1 had the best speed figure of the day - better than the Open Handicap, and Race 11 & 12 were the worst ratings of the day. And it is an extreme regression in track speed, comparable to a factor you would see on a Heavy track. Early use was a massive advantage on Saturday. I am not sure irrigation would have helped. The track clearly has some major issues. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Reefton said: It was stated that there was irrigation applied on the NZTR website last week Pam. And the reason some Trainers dodge those days at Riccarton with some horses is pretty obvious as well - as DP Wilson was famously quoted 'keep yourself in town hall company and your horse out of it'. Let's wait and see how the noms go next time - if you lot are all right and I am wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) the October 24th fields should be absolutely decimated with Trainers refusing to line their horses up - we'll see. Course the CJC might bow to the pressure and produce a track where they are all heading for the outside rail - doesn't that do wonders for the image and attractiveness of NZ racing! I think you underestimate how desperate some folk are, their horses could pull up fair, then during the next week or so show soreness, shoulder, withers, legs, you name it, the track rider says, '' hey boss, doesn't quite feel right'' if you've been there, you'd know......but the desperates will run their horses anyway, through hope and of course desperation, becoming cannon fodder for poor track managers and administrators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: poor track managers I have a great deal of sympathy for the track managers. Most are up against it regardless of what they do. Riccarton is in that category. What ever happened go the National Track Manager from Head Office? Further where is the NZTR Strategic Plan to address our Turf Track issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, Freda said: I don't see this as needing to be a 'you're wrong and I'm right' sort of discussion, unfortunately that happens a lot nowadays, in politics as well as racing, and, indeed, life. Riccarton is the premier track in the South Island, hosting prestige races and basking in the Cup Week success that showcases the best week's racing in the country. So what is wrong with pointing out where [ in our opinions ] things could be improved? Wouldn't it be great if we could all be proud of the place, instead of thinking ' if only...' That is the very mindset that nullifies progress and typifies why we are where we are in the racing scheme of things. It is documented fact that turf tracks are generally looking for remodelling after twenty years use. That some provincial tracks are in quite good condition turf-wise only reflects the reality that they don't get the use that the city ones do [as well as being looked after by farmers, but we won't go there ]. Stating that fact is neither being negative nor mischievous. Rubbishing the opinions of those who subscribe to that same fact is childish and achieves nothing. Installing an allweather will be great for training, but as to whether the [ necessary ] increased revenue happens as a result is moot. Certainly, no figures have yet come to light to show us all where these improvements are coming from. And the Riccarton turf, which will be used on those above-mentioned premier days will still have a questionable structure. Can I ask you? do you have an AGM at CJC? If so, will the CEO take questions from the floor? I say that as the old Sydney Turf Club certainly did, and boy was there some heated 'discussion' especially when the merger with the AJC was first mooted.......there must be hundreds of financial members of the CJC with serious concerns not only with the proposed AWT but the club mamegment in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: I have a great deal of sympathy for the track managers. Most are up against it regardless of what they do. Riccarton is in that category. What ever happened go the National Track Manager from Head Office? Further where is the NZTR Strategic Plan to address our Turf Track issues? Fair comment, however, do you agree that NZ racing is run by the northern cartel and SI is considered the problem child? To attract a great track manager, great salary for starters, and an even better track record.......Chch should be able to attract good people, but not with all this BS going on....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said: Can I ask you? do you have an AGM at CJC? If so, will the CEO take questions from the floor? I say that as the old Sydney Turf Club certainly did, and boy was there some heated 'discussion' especially when the merger with the AJC was first mooted.......there must be hundreds of financial members of the CJC with serious concerns not only with the proposed AWT but the club mamegment in general. yes, but I can't give you any help wrt processes. Pitty is a member, he would tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 LOL, going by the PM's he sent me, he told me a lot, mostly where to go! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: Can I ask you? do you have an AGM at CJC? If so, will the CEO take questions from the floor? I say that as the old Sydney Turf Club certainly did, and boy was there some heated 'discussion' especially when the merger with the AJC was first mooted.......there must be hundreds of financial members of the CJC with serious concerns not only with the proposed AWT but the club mamegment in general. Yes they do and yes they will but who will ask the questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, curious said: Yes they do and yes they will but who will ask the questions? Concerned and worried members? Concerned and worried trainers? Owners? all of the above? you would think...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: Concerned and worried members? Concerned and worried trainers? Owners? all of the above? you would think...... As a former member, owner and local trainer there, I was asking the questions 20 years ago. No constructive answers or actions. I wouldn't expect anything different now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 11 hours ago, Pitman said: Most shifted for financial reasons And you don't think that had anything to do with the state of the Riccarton track since 1998? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Interesting that Avondale have put up a G2 track today , lots of scratchings , which i assume are because of the track condition . Will be an interesting watch . Some light showers forecast for the afternoon . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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