Track - Riccarton Park-Canterbury JC | Saturday 14 November

[the galah]

Track bias/worn track...  

Maybe i have missed it in some of these earlier posts,but i don't think anyone has given an explanation as to how the irrigating that took place on the thursday night helped the state of the track. 

No one is complaining about the rain,just asking for an explanation as to how the track was improved because of the irrigation?

Unless someone can answer that then you would have to assume the irrigation(whether it be a lot or not) was unnecessary.

[Freda]

26 minutes ago, the galah said:

Track bias/worn track...  

Maybe i have missed it in some of these earlier posts,but i don't think anyone has given an explanation as to how the irrigating that took place on the thursday night helped the state of the track. 

No one is complaining about the rain,just asking for an explanation as to how the track was improved because of the irrigation?

Unless someone can answer that then you would have to assume the irrigation(whether it be a lot or not) was unnecessary.

Only speculation here....but, my thoughts are, that given the Canterbury climate with its summer heat and strong winds, the track dries out super-quickly, even after rain.

Any irrigation would have been an attempt to keep the level of moisture at an acceptable level given the dressing-down received after earlier footing was deemed unacceptable. 

[Running Man]

13 minutes ago, Freda said:

Only speculation here....but, my thoughts are, that given the Canterbury climate with its summer heat and strong winds, the track dries out super-quickly, even after rain.

Any irrigation would have been an attempt to keep the level of moisture at an acceptable level given the dressing-down received after earlier footing was deemed unacceptable. 

so did it work ??? you live there

[Running Man]

43 minutes ago, the galah said:

Track bias/worn track...  

Maybe i have missed it in some of these earlier posts,but i don't think anyone has given an explanation as to how the irrigating that took place on the thursday night helped the state of the track. 

No one is complaining about the rain,just asking for an explanation as to how the track was improved because of the irrigation?

Unless someone can answer that then you would have to assume the irrigation(whether it be a lot or not) was unnecessary.

didn't track manager explain the reason why in interview with Rodley????

[Thomass]

Yep..since Te Akau had criticised the Track, Mills bent over backwards for them and watered the crap out of it...

Nek minute...Te Akau has 5 winners after looking pretty ordinary

[the galah]

17 minutes ago, Freda said:

Only speculation here....but, my thoughts are, that given the Canterbury climate with its summer heat and strong winds, the track dries out super-quickly, even after rain.

Any irrigation would have been an attempt to keep the level of moisture at an acceptable level given the dressing-down received after earlier footing was deemed unacceptable. 

That makes sense.

But the reality seems to be, because they got the track wrong at a meeting last month, they over compensated with water by irrigating this time to make sure they did not have the same problem again.   

I know whoever in control of these things are trying to get it right,but are they succeeding?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, the galah said:

That makes sense.

But the reality seems to be, because they got the track wrong at a meeting last month, they over compensated with water by irrigating this time to make sure they did not have the same problem again.   

I know whoever in control of these things are trying to get it right,but are they succeeding?

As I've said many many times before the issue is the soil structure.  To be blunt it's fucked.

Turns to glue when it gets really wet and turns to concrete when really dry.

There is no buffer to work with.

[Running Man]

16 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Yep..since Te Akau had criticised the Track, Mills bent over backwards for them and watered the crap out of it...

Nek minute...Te Akau has 5 winners after looking pretty ordinary

watered the crap out of it for first day 81 mls 16mis rain 

pittman trained 4 winners first day Te Akau 0

8mls for last day Te Akau 5 winners 

your logic aren't right 

[Running Man]

9 minutes ago, the galah said:

That makes sense.

But the reality seems to be, because they got the track wrong at a meeting last month, they over compensated with water by irrigating this time to make sure they did not have the same problem again.   

I know whoever in control of these things are trying to get it right,but are they succeeding?

how?? wasn't 1st day outstanding as jockeys said it was  after 81mls irrigation????

Then surly 8mls Thursday night wasn't to much 

never ever heard one  negative comment from jockeys all carnival on tv   Don't they ride on it ??not the whinger who wants it like concrete re early oct

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Running Man said:

how?? wasn't 1st day outstanding as jockeys said it was  after 81mls irrigation????

Then surly 8mls Thursday night wasn't to much 

never ever heard one  negative comment from jockeys all carnival on tv   Don't they ride on it ??not the whinger who wants it like concrete re early oct

I understand what the chief is saying,but your logic running man,seems to not take into account what the starting point is for moisture content. Using your logic they should have irrigated more.  All i know is most punters prefer to bet on tracks no worse than a dead 4.They hardly seem to have those anymore,which i think is a shame.

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, the galah said:

All i know is most punters prefer to bet on tracks no worse than a dead 4.They hardly seem to have those anymore,which i think is a shame.

I believe it improved past a D5.

[Thomass]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What are you privy to the Stewards vision that hasn't been posted yet?

Rubbish anyway - it "veered in" at the 400m!!!  That's a long way from the finish!

Yep...actually I'd say Plushenko was at least 8/10 widths out according to this photo...50M from the finish!

[Chief Stipe]

[Freda]

4 hours ago, Running Man said:

so did it work ??? you live there

Well, yeah....plus it rained before Wednesday so that helped.

Without the rain they might have got their ears chewed again. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Freda

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Freda said:

Well, yeah....plus it rained before Wednesday so that helped.

Without the rain they might have got their ears chewed again. 

I agree.  The very inside may have been worn but I think saying there was a bias is quite frankly BS.

What happened was the first three races were won by horses coming down the outside.  The fact they paid big dividends accentuated the dividends.

I guess all the bias promoters will be looking forward to the supposed even nature of the new synthetic track.  

I'll also add that Riccarton being as wide as it is no one was disadvantaged as in no one was forced to race on the inside.

[Joe Bloggs]

41 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I agree.  The very inside may have been worn but I think saying there was a bias is quite frankly BS.

What happened was the first three races were won by horses coming down the outside.  The fact they paid big dividends accentuated the dividends.

I guess all the bias promoters will be looking forward to the supposed even nature of the new synthetic track.  

I'll also add that Riccarton being as wide as it is no one was disadvantaged as in no one was forced to race on the inside.

Can't you just see the AWT form guides, doesn't like the kick back, bet with caution.

Trainer doesn't like to travel, follow market moves, no AWT trial form

Holey Moley, it's going to be a domestic minefield, however, punters around the world are salivating, Betfair and Sportsbet will have tp put on extra staff.

 

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, Thomass said:

Yep..since Te Akau had criticised the Track, Mills bent over backwards for them and watered the crap out of it...

Nek minute...Te Akau has 5 winners after looking pretty ordinary

.don't agree with you very often Thomass but that sums up the story I hear about the influence  certain parties have at the CJC.

[Freda]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

.don't agree with you very often Thomass but that sums up the story I hear about the influence  certain parties have at the CJC.

By all accounts,  the track was outstanding, compared to how it is often presented.   I didn't hear one adverse comment from riders over the meeting, with a particular thumbs up from Lisa Allpress.

But, should it take a rocket from one faction to achieve that?  Should it not be in the best state possible all the time?

[Chief Stipe]

15 hours ago, Thomass said:

Yep..since Te Akau had criticised the Track, Mills bent over backwards for them and watered the crap out of it...

Nek minute...Te Akau has 5 winners after looking pretty ordinary

 

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

.don't agree with you very often Thomass but that sums up the story I hear about the influence  certain parties have at the CJC.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

The complaints came after the rock hard near dangerous track presented on the 3rd of October.  They didn't just come from Te Akau.  Indeed it would be fair to say that the complaints were universal.  Of course we had Pitty saying it was a good track with Reefton joining him.

To isolate out one Trainer or Stable from a long list is disingenuous and to infer that their success on the final day was reliant on the manipulation of the track is downright wrong.

Te Akau might be the dominant stable in New Zealand but to suggest that they have influence over the weather is laughable.

Just to remind you all what it looked like one MONTH earlier.

I would say if a track like that had been presented on either of the Guineas Days then Riccarton would lose the final support it had for the Guineas to stay.

Now you may unfairly select Te Akau out of those that complained about 3 October but don't forget they supported the Guineas staying in the South.

We also forget that no one complained about the Cup week track until the last day.  My only complaint was that it wasn't a D5 but a D4.  Supposedly there was a bias and favoured horses who liked Dead tracks.  The facts don't actually add up to support either contention.  

Now of course eveyone is ignoring the real issue the turf track is stuffed.  Now Pitty and Reefton support the big spend on the All Weather Track but no mention of renovating the main turf track.

[Chief Stipe]

I notice none of the horses that won on Saturday could be called "Wet Trackers"!

[Running Man]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

The complaints came after the rock hard near dangerous track presented on the 3rd of October.  They didn't just come from Te Akau.  Indeed it would be fair to say that the complaints were universal.  Of course we had Pitty saying it was a good track with Reefton joining him.

To isolate out one Trainer or Stable from a long list is disingenuous and to infer that their success on the final day was reliant on the manipulation of the track is downright wrong.

Te Akau might be the dominant stable in New Zealand but to suggest that they have influence over the weather is laughable.

Just to remind you all what it looked like one MONTH earlier.

I would say if a track like that had been presented on either of the Guineas Days then Riccarton would lose the final support it had for the Guineas to stay.

Now you may unfairly select Te Akau out of those that complained about 3 October but don't forget they supported the Guineas staying in the South.

We also forget that no one complained about the Cup week track until the last day.  My only complaint was that it wasn't a D5 but a D4.  Supposedly there was a bias and favoured horses who liked Dead tracks.  The facts don't actually add up to support either contention.  

Now of course eveyone is ignoring the real issue the turf track is stuffed.  Now Pitty and Reefton support the big spend on the All Weather Track but no mention of renovating the main turf track.

Once aw is built surly they will fix the main track??? don't know how, didn't the contractors that built it built it like a road good luck fixing it Solid clay base. I even heard that the rock hard clay is over top of the drainage no wonder it backs in summer and swap in winter with rain not getting to drains What CEO And committee Would oversee that????????????????????

[Running Man]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

By all accounts,  the track was outstanding, compared to how it is often presented.   I didn't hear one adverse comment from riders over the meeting, with a particular thumbs up from Lisa Allpress.

But, should it take a rocket from one faction to achieve that?  Should it not be in the best state possible all the time?

compared to what ?? are you saying that its not normally presented good ?? 

one faction who is that ??? i heard a local trainer(trains for Valachi) wrote a scathing email to the club and it wasn't TA

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Running Man said:

Once aw is built surly they will fix the main track??? don't know how, didn't the contractors that built it built it like a road good luck fixing it Solid clay base. I even heard that the rock hard clay is over top of the drainage no wonder it backs in summer and swap in winter with rain not getting to drains What CEO And committee Would oversee that????????????????????

How will that be afforded?  No more govt handouts for tracks i don't think.

The contractors concerned back in 1998 did the job as prescribed by the scope of work given by the then RIB;  and as for the committee/CEO, again, are they construction experts?  Not their field at all.

Good or bad, they can hardly be held responsible for the design.  They just had to follow instructions. 

Similarly,  the current track management is not responsible for the soil structure....but they have to try and work with what they have.

Not an easy job I wouldn't think.

I agree, reconstruction of the turf would be ideal,  but it won't happen unless there is a cash injection from somewhere. 

[Joe Bloggs]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

How will that be afforded?  No more govt handouts for tracks i don't think.

The contractors concerned back in 1998 did the job as prescribed by the scope of work given by the then RIB;  and as for the committee/CEO, again, are they construction experts?  Not their field at all.

Good or bad, they can hardly be held responsible for the design.  They just had to follow instructions. 

Similarly,  the current track management is not responsible for the soil structure....but they have to try and work with what they have.

Not an easy job I wouldn't think.

I agree, reconstruction of the turf would be ideal,  but it won't happen unless there is a cash injection from somewhere. 

What you need Freda, is a wealthy, old ex trainer to go tits up, wooden box, bequeath his/her estate to CJC and you're sweet. For at least a little while, until another wealthy ex trainer karks it and same same......you reckon......there's heaps of wealthy ex trainers in Canters........coupla breeders, and some wealthy expats who remember the Canterbury of old......not kidding either. It's how the world famous Battersea Dogs home survives, no kill policy, all dogs are re-homed or kept for life via kind old buggers bequests.........parallels there you think?

[Freda]

On 18/11/2020 at 11:44 AM, Joe Bloggs said:

What you need Freda, is a wealthy, old ex trainer to go tits up, wooden box, bequeath his/her estate to CJC and you're sweet. For at least a little while, until another wealthy ex trainer karks it and same same......you reckon......there's heaps of wealthy ex trainers in Canters........coupla breeders, and some wealthy expats who remember the Canterbury of old......not kidding either. It's how the world famous Battersea Dogs home survives, no kill policy, all dogs are re-homed or kept for life via kind old buggers bequests.........parallels there you think?

I'm still trying to think of a wealthy ex-trainer.