curious Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Tesio said: Maybe I’m not a normal punter.....but i would prefer to bet on premier and higher tiered racing (better horse quality) v ave industry day (often 7 horse field in the mud) Probably well below average then by the sound of it. Try punting where you can find the best value and see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, mardigras said: Throw in ARC and it's not hard to see where an excess of industry money goes. Punters in NZ don't give a toss about premier versus non premier, or tiered racing. Betting more relates to day of week than anything. WESTLAND - 1 race day = $738k turnover ELLERSILE - 16 race days = $2,697,372 average turnover per race meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Tesio said: Maybe I’m not a normal punter.....but i would prefer to bet on premier and higher tiered racing (better horse quality) v ave industry day (often 7 horse field in the mud) Yep, you may think that is normal, and it is like that in Australia. Not here - the difference between a Saturday R65 at Ellerslie is very little to a R65 at Waverley - as far as the punters are concerned. We want to operate tiers like they do in Australia, but the most important failings in my view are that we don't run tiers that in anyway mirror the reasons why they work there. Their tiers are geographical, ours aren't. In NZ they are somewhat random and there is no real geographical (or cost) boundary. And in Australia, you can examine the betting and the provincials do about 2 times the turnover of a country. And a metro does around 2.5 times the turnover of a provincial - which aligns pretty well with the stake structure. The same definitely does not apply here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, curious said: Oh cripes. That Ellerslie figure is a shocker. FFS sell it up before any more damage is done. We've all had a fair idea that this was an issue for a long time . Smaller clubs are to a large degree aren't dragging the industry down , they're happy to be the small fish , but others seem to think getting rid of them will rebalance the listing ship . The figures that Mardigras supplied would suggest that the more we retrench to the big tracks and clubs the deeper the hole will get . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, mardigras said: Yep, you may think that is normal, and it is like that in Australia. Not here - the difference between a Saturday R65 at Ellerslie is very little to a R65 at Waverley - as far as the punters are concerned. We want to operate tiers like they do in Australia, but the most important failings in my view are that we don't run tiers that in anyway mirror the reasons why they work there. Their tiers are geographical, ours aren't. In NZ they are somewhat random and there is no real geographical (or cost) boundary. And in Australia, you can examine the betting and the provincials do about 2 times the turnover of a country. And a metro does around 2.5 times the turnover of a provincial - which aligns pretty well with the stake structure. The same definitely does not apply here. Interesting numbers re Aus. I dont know much about Aus turnover, but my first though is those numbers are based on a tier system alreday beaded down. In NZ we dont exactly have a current well thought through tier system, its basicaly dart board driven. With the proposed tier system in the messara report, if that gets implemented, do you see us then mirroring the current Aus trend in turnover numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tesio said: WESTLAND - 1 race day = $738k turnover ELLERSILE - 16 race days = $2,697,372 average turnover per race meeting Yep - so 3.65 times as much turnover per day between little old Westland and big Ellerslie. (Only 3 times as much turnover per race - maybe Westland should run more races).And which of the two gets the most Saturdays do you think? Do you think Saturdays generally have higher turnovers than non Saturdays? So if you take net revenue at 13 cents in the $ (pre all the massive TAB expenses), you get Brilliant. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tesio said: Interesting numbers re Aus. I dont know much about Aus turnover, but my first though is those numbers are based on a tier system alreday beaded down. In NZ we dont exactly have a current well thought through tier system, its basicaly dart board driven. With the proposed tier system in the messara report, if that gets implemented, do you see us then mirroring the current Aus trend in turnover numbers? No. Because there shouldn't be a tiered system as there is no tiered revenue from race meetings. And there won't be. Edited November 30, 2020 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, mardigras said: Yep - so 3.65 times as much turnover per day between little old Westland and big Ellerslie. (Only 3 times as much turnover per race - maybe Westland should run more races).And which of the two gets the most Saturdays do you think? Do you think Saturdays generally have higher turnovers than non Saturdays? So if you take net revenue at 13 cents in the $ (pre all the massive TAB expenses), you get Brilliant. Oh cripes. It gets worse! Please sell up ARC yesterday. Anyone got a mate on the Westland Council to see if we can buy back Hoki? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, mardigras said: Yep - so 3.65 times as much turnover per day between little old Westland and big Ellerslie. (Only 3 times as much turnover per race - maybe Westland should run more races).And which of the two gets the most Saturdays do you think? Do you think Saturdays generally have higher turnovers than non Saturdays? So if you take net revenue at 13 cents in the $ (pre all the massive TAB expenses), you get Brilliant. That is scary , so what is it that the powers that be don't see ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Where do you find those figures Mardigras . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, nomates said: Where do you find those figures Mardigras . NZTR AR 2019-20 HiRes_RBG_29_Oct20.pdf (loveracing.nz) The 13 cents in the $ net betting revenue is from the 2018 annual report (NZRB). It fluctuates (can and has been lower), but that is a reasonable estimate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I wonder how much longer this thread is gunna keep going😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) Personally I think Westland should race but personally I think there should be 2 west coast circuits one in jan say 3 days,this season they are jammed tight like sardines and another couple of days some other time and if you look at the calandar this week is probably a good fit,that's just my opinion,if it would happen,probably not. And to add to that Cromwell probably should too,there is only so much room in a calandar I guess. Edited November 30, 2020 by mikeynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 They are in the NZTR annual reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Used to race in November some years ago I think, Saturday and Monday from memory, both greymouth and hokitika, then again after xmas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, mikeynz said: I wonder how much longer this thread is gunna keep going😳 It probably has a limited life if we keep running meetings that are losing 300k a day one would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, curious said: It probably has a limited life if we keep running meetings that are losing 300k a day one would think. Yep - and that's before any TAB expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Pass but when I lived there in Hokitika 40 years ago there was three trainers - Cathy Wildbore, Johnny Hurren and Rod Collins. Damn near every dairy farmer had a broodmare or three. One family in particular - can't remember their names - had a big band of broodmares. the Colemans. One of their daughters Deedee trained for several years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 8 hours ago, curious said: And what happened to the stables and horses that used to be trained on the coast? Well when I was a lad there were ten racedays a year on the Coast. Now there are three. And people are pretty uncertain as to NZTR's intentions so hardly likely to start up training again. That sums it up There is a horse or two in work at Omoto they tell me plus talk of three becoming permanents at Reefton . And Kimberly Hampton at Ikamatua of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Reefton said: the Colemans. One of their daughters Deedee trained for several years That's them. One played half back in the team I played in. One of the girls was a looker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 42 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: That's them. One played half back in the team I played in. One of the girls was a looker. Correct. The footie players would be Alister or Ben(?) and the girl was DeeDee. Not sure where she or they ended up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Reefton said: Correct. The footie players would be Alister or Ben(?) and the girl was DeeDee. Not sure where she or they ended up Both played in the team. Alistair was one not sure the other was called Ben. Our Excelsior colts team went the season unbeaten. Those days there were still a few clubs going on the Coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Also a Mick Conza that trained down that way, but was some years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, Shad said: Also a Mick Conza that trained down that way, but was some years back. Wasn't there a guy lawlor or lalor that trained on the coast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Jim lalor trained at Reefton and his brother Tom trained at Greymouth, I think, Jim shifted to Ashburton later on.Had a few good horses, Charlie's pal, frontline who dead heated the nuggets one year with accelerate, think they were both out of the same mare, do stand to be corrected, as it was a long time ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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