Thomass Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Freda said: I'm also fairly sure he presided over the instigation of 'grading' clubs - A,B,C,D - which certainly influenced the percentage of turnover they received and was to presage the absurd 'tiered' system which has crept up upon us. But the tiered system works Freda One has a lesser performing R 65 horse in Bush racing...they race for less money than a Premier day... The stats prove Premier horses run faster...and for more dosh...what's the problem with that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Thomass said: But the tiered system works Freda One has a lesser performing R 65 horse in Bush racing...they race for less money than a Premier day... The stats prove Premier horses run faster...and for more dosh...what's the problem with that? Bollocks. In Aus, yes - because it is managed properly. Not here. Edited December 8, 2020 by Freda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 38 minutes ago, Thomass said: The stats prove Premier horses run faster...and for more dosh...what's the problem with that? What stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 45 minutes ago, Thomass said: But the tiered system works Freda One has a lesser performing R 65 horse in Bush racing...they race for less money than a Premier day... The stats prove Premier horses run faster...and for more dosh...what's the problem with that? LOL - so those maidens running 1:07 and change should step straight up to Group racing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 Seriously guys, this is BASIC stuff and to still be confused about it at your ages is a sad indictment on our education system. Its counterintuitive to think ALL R 65 horses are the same wrt performance when some will be racing midweek at 10K then another race in the same class at HQ, will be Racing for 30k on Premier days... I can't put it any simpler.... Ive told him yous fellas before about HK and for ANY jurisdiction for that matter.. ...as the progression through rating bands proceeds so to does the speed...Who the f knew that would happen? pfffft...it's like comparing Parisian French bread in Montmartre with profiteroles out of a corner shop in Huntley or Palmy...you're crackers if you think anything else Its all about CLASS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Would you just post the data you have that shows NZ premier winners run faster than industry day ones. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, Thomass said: Seriously guys, this is BASIC stuff and to still be confused about it at your ages is a sad indictment on our education system. Its counterintuitive to think ALL R 65 horses are the same wrt performance when some will be racing midweek at 10K then another race in the same class at HQ, will be Racing for 30k on Premier days... I can't put it any simpler.... Ive told him yous fellas before about HK and for ANY jurisdiction for that matter.. ...as the progression through rating bands proceeds so to does the speed...Who the f knew that would happen? pfffft...it's like comparing Parisian French bread in Montmartre with profiteroles out of a corner shop in Huntley or Palmy...you're crackers if you think anything else Its all about CLASS LOL - so those maidens running 1:07 and change should step straight up to Group racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, curious said: Would you just post the data you have that shows NZ premier winners run faster than industry day ones. Thanks. Contact formpro@formpro.co.nz.... Neil has a significant data base which shows exactly that.... I don't do counterintuitive....ask yourself or Steph Marsh, Forsman, et el if they target Premier days over Industry days for their 'faster' horses... Its ridiculous to even think Industry days on average are benchmarking the same as Premier days for horses in the same Band...pfffft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 I have access to the formpro database and my analysis says it does not show that at all. Please post your analysis from that database or otherwise that says what you claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Bro Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: LOL - so those maidens running 1:07 and change should step straight up to Group racing? Why are you laughing? That's what happens only you don't have to run 1:07. Explosively won a maiden race at Te Rapa in 1:11.52 with a 3kg claiming apprentice up. Total stake winnings $5,400. On Saturday 5 December Explosively ran in the Group 3 $70,000 Bonecrusher Stakes at Ellerslie. That was the second start of its career. It ran third. Racing has improved out of sight from the days when the main race of the day was the Open Handicap and you looked to see what the horse you were interested in was running like at this time last year. People love seeing top horses running in Group Races. That's why the crowds at the premier home of thoroughbred racing in New Zealand are what they are today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Delta Bro said: Why are you laughing? That's what happens only you don't have to run 1:07. Explosively won a maiden race at Te Rapa in 1:11.52 with a 3kg claiming apprentice up. Total stake winnings $5,400. On Saturday 5 December Explosively ran in the Group 3 $70,000 Bonecrusher Stakes at Ellerslie. That was the second start of its career. It ran third. Racing has improved out of sight from the days when the main race of the day was the Open Handicap and you looked to see what the horse you were interested in was running like at this time last year. People love seeing top horses running in Group Races. That's why the crowds at the premier home of thoroughbred racing in New Zealand are what they are today. You miss the point. Thomass's theory is that horse's run faster on Premier days because there is more stakes to be won. As for racing "having improved out of sight" I must disagree. I miss the days when an Open Handicap sprint didn't have an average rating in the mid to low 80's! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Bro Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You miss the point. Thomass's theory is that horse's run faster on Premier days because there is more stakes to be won. As for racing "having improved out of sight" I must disagree. I miss the days when an Open Handicap sprint didn't have an average rating in the mid to low 80's! I counted nine people on the public grandstand during a race at The Rising Foundation Christmas Raceday. Some of them were only there because the place where they worked was holding it's Christmas function at the races. Two of them turned and laughed at me counting, "one, two, three, four ... " We need to close down all the racecourses which don't have facilities as good as you'd find at the Wynyard Quarter. Edited December 8, 2020 by Delta Bro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Delta Bro said: We need to close down all the racecourses which don't have facilities as good as you'd find at the Wynyard Quarter. Why? How will that improve revenue? Most of the "facilities" at the Wynyard Quarter have a lower profit margin than racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Bro Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why? How will that improve revenue? Most of the "facilities" at the Wynyard Quarter have a lower profit margin than racing! Because that's what we're being told by people who know more than us. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Delta Bro said: Because that's what we're being told by people who know more than us. Oh sorry you should have used the sarcasm font - I took you seriously! Quite frankly facilities for punters on course is over rated. Some of the best race meetings I've been to never had them. A choice of two types of beer and either a mince pie, steak pie or a hot dog. The key is providing a good consistent surface to race on and good even fields to encourage the punter to bet more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Oh sorry you should have used the sarcasm font - I took you seriously! Quite frankly facilities for punters on course is over rated. Some of the best race meetings I've been to never had them. A choice of two types of beer and either a mince pie, steak pie or a hot dog. The key is providing a good consistent surface to race on and good even fields to encourage the punter to bet more. and prioritising the racehorse including its welfare on raceday , the viewing of racing for the public and facilities for the horse. Not currently undertaken at many courses in NZ unfortunately, particularly the larger ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, Huey said: and prioritising the racehorse including its welfare on raceday , the viewing of racing for the public and facilities for the horse. Not currently undertaken at many courses in NZ unfortunately, particularly the larger ones. Yes focus on those things that differentiate us from every other entertainment gig in town. On course best asset is the horse followed by the young people who help put on the show. In that regard the powers that be are pushing them further away from those we are trying to entertain. There is an element of this with off-course people as well however with an extra focus on providing a consistent wagering event that attracts punters over the zillion other options available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 Hello, ain't you guys been to HQ lately? Simply outstanding viewing areas with owners able to watch saddling in the new area then a bevy in the parade! Unfortunately HQ are focusing almost solely on the Euro YG's and ignoring other ethnicities like the big punting Chinese...just observe their new promo video I don't know of a Club throughout NZ that celebrated Chinese New Year and the encouragement that would have generated for future Thoroughbred involvement... HQ love filling the YG's with F & B and the big money return...stuff punting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 On 9/12/2020 at 5:08 AM, Freda said: I'm also fairly sure he presided over the instigation of 'grading' clubs - A,B,C,D - which certainly influenced the percentage of turnover they received and was to presage the absurd 'tiered' system which has crept up upon us. I would have thought the system would have come through NZTR and not the Racing Board. If through the Racing Board perhaps shows the vague boundries of responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Hello, ain't you guys been to HQ lately? Simply outstanding viewing areas with owners able to watch saddling in the new area then a bevy in the parade! Unfortunately HQ are focusing almost solely on the Euro YG's and ignoring other ethnicities like the big punting Chinese...just observe their new promo video I don't know of a Club throughout NZ that celebrated Chinese New Year and the encouragement that would have generated for future Thoroughbred involvement... HQ love filling the YG's with F & B and the big money return...stuff punting You can do all of that stuff when the industry revolves around you! I see an article where the twilights are popular,FFS if you cant get people to go to a piss up at this time of year something is wrong,expecting 6k to turn up in a city of 1.5m & celebrating it like its a win for the sport,when in reality the result has less meaning than country meetings robbed of their dates from an industry perspective,we have such low standards in NZ. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, Huey said: we have such low standards in NZ And getting lower . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) On 9/12/2020 at 10:54 AM, curious said: Would you just post the data you have that shows NZ premier winners run faster than industry day ones. Thanks. You didn't answer my question above Thommo. I don't think the prime viewing areas at Ellerslie have anything to do with it, or by HQ did you mean that dodgy joint down on the viaduct? Edited December 9, 2020 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 17 hours ago, The Centaur said: I would have thought the system would have come through NZTR and not the Racing Board. If through the Racing Board perhaps shows the vague boundries of responsibility. Yes, one would think so...but Chittick and the grading kinda hang together in my thoughts, for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Freda said: Yes, one would think so...but Chittick and the grading kinda hang together in my thoughts, for some reason. Yes. Because under the 03 Act and since, the Racing Board and its successors had the final say on granting racedates and any conditions for that? Edited December 10, 2020 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 10, 2020 Author Share Posted December 10, 2020 22 hours ago, curious said: You didn't answer my question above Thommo. I don't think the prime viewing areas at Ellerslie have anything to do with it, or by HQ did you mean that dodgy joint down on the viaduct? I've guided you through this before c...it was under PUNTING 101... As night follows day...so too does Class beats Ass Again HK is the best example...on similar consistent track conditions under Benchmark racing we have the wonderful opportunity to observe how each progressive class results in faster times throughout the system... Alors...burp...if our best trainers with their best steeds target the bigger money races ipso f in facto they'll be going faster than midweek shit races.. I can't be any more clearer if I was still wearing clearasil MAAT form beats Midweek maidens almost every time...your raisins doh tear So instead of benchmarking form like some do i.e. Spewing out a standard rating taking into account all types of track conditions on different tracks I use the HK Pro Punters thinking that progressive Benchmark Classes spit out faster ratings as they progress...wtf knew that could happen Yes some Maiden blue blood will produce faster ratings well above the standard Benchmark for that race and continue to blaze through the grades..but they're well and truely signalled The massive advantage I have over you and your buddy of course...is I allow for unlucky runs, wide facing the breeze, et el and add time for such things as set weight racing against multiple winners now back to Handicaps...including Female allowances You don't... What on earth are you and your bud thinking...or don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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