More INCOMPETENCE in the Sth Island

[Freda]

31 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Let's not knock Kumara too much. They do run the pinnacle event of the Coast circuit(when they are able to run it that is) and really is the only reason we get any attention at all.  

 

And one wonders, given their turnovers and the attention they get, where they spend their money? The money Westland 'lent' them was for their share of the gates a few years back but came from Diane Howe not the WRC

You probably have better access to those facts than most of us...however, my understanding is that the loan often referred to was advanced much more recently than Diane's one, and has been paid back.

Regardless, we can argue forever about what Hokitika could have, and should have, done ;  but, at no stage can anyone, hand on heart, have confidence that NZTR will do as they promise.    So, now, under the new racing act, it is legal to usurp club/community assets should they wish to, how can anyone blame Westland R.C for doing what they did?  

As Reefton said, if NZTR had shown a bit of patience and a lot less big stick they would have got the lot may be correct from a legal point of view - but is it morally right?  I don't think so.

Using their capital to enrich West Coast racing is a sop when West Coast racing may not exist under the centralisation agenda...and all NZTR has to do is deny permits, and the whole show falls over.

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Freda said:

Using their capital to enrich West Coast racing is a sop when West Coast racing may not exist under the centralisation agenda...and all NZTR has to do is deny permits, and the whole show falls over.

Which according to the Messara blueprint, which all the legislative changes underpin, then that is the agenda.  At the moment we are only seeing a stay of execution.  Ironically the WRC's action may have been a wake up call for those administrators and helped to achieve that stay of execution.

[Tesio]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So when the administrators once again wielded their big stick and once again made Kumara the protected species what outcome would you expect from the Hokitika community? 

I wonder how many people from the Hokitika community went to the Kumara races yesterday?

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Tesio said:

I wonder how many people from the Hokitika community went to the Kumara races yesterday?

What's your point?  Wouldn't a better question be - how many people from Hokitika used the venue outside of yesterday or how many painted the fences or how many cleaned the bird shit off the stand seats?

I do know that the Westland Racing Club sponsored a race.

Kumara is a one use venue that is detached from any significant community. 

I don't know if things have changed at Reefton but even Reefton has uses outside of its race days - school athletic track in the summer and a rugby field in the winter.

[curious]

3 hours ago, Tesio said:

No i dont agree.  Your like a broken record reefton ........ we need country racing and city racing. Comparing to the actions Westland took v’s how city clubs are operated and their rate of returns are two seperate matters. The fact of the matter is Westland gave the finger to the INDUSTRY and gave everything  away, instead of thinking how they can retain their balance sheet and use those funds for the betterment of West Coast racing. 

You simply don't get it do you? The primary object of the Westland club is to conduct race meetings at their home course in Hokitika. The right to do so was removed by the RB and NZTR.

The purpose and intent of their constitution is quite clear. In the event of dissolution, subject to legislative requirements, "The Club will seek NZTR approval to dispose of surplus assets for the benefit of residents of Westland".  All they have done is pre-empted the NZTR approval of that by acting as and when they did.

There never was an object or intent to provide for the "betterment of West Coast racing" though they appear to be doing that anyway by supporting this petition and the loan to Kumara, for example.

[curious]

36 minutes ago, Freda said:

You probably have better access to those facts than most of us...however, my understanding is that the loan often referred to was advanced much more recently than Diane's one, and has been paid back.

Yes, it was 12k to assist with the upgrade of the Kumara track made in Feb 20.

Edited January 9, 2021 by curious

[Thomass]

On 9/01/2021 at 9:51 AM, Chief Stipe said:

Can you explain why that is important to know?  

The requirement is for any horse displaying ANY signs of blood to be late scratched...

It simply isn't good enough for any horse let alone a Favourite to be running with "lacerations and small cuts around the eye" after beating itself up

The Veterinary wasn't even reminded of their FAILURE to abide by the rules....ok?

#integritynzstyle

 

[Thomass]

17 hours ago, Shad said:

On positive note, nice win by mama sans, congratulations to the connections and first win by her trainer, followed this mare until she had a nasty fall at motukarara a year or so ago, may have been touch n go for a while, but great to see her back, and in winning form.

Good on them but if the WORST violator of the Whip rule in NZ , Brett Murray, didn't strike that horse at least 8 times possibly 9 before the 100M then I'm whale oil beef hooked...

That would've been his 6th time this season...did they just turn a blind eye because they felt sorry for him? 

[nomates]

It's a shame that this has become such a divisive topic , perhaps if it had been a process that was inclusive with clear consultation from all parties , and not the clumsy heavy handed , bully boy process that it became , the whole industry could have been moving forward as one . Now all we have is small clubs circling the wagons and trusting no one .

[Thomass]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

 

Did some research at Kumara and yes indeed the vet did assist in starting one or two races at Westport. Explained he did not hear the starter's 'go' comment - whatever it is - due to background noise.

And the horse did seem to have significant and multiple wounds from pictures taken the next day yes

Cheers for that...can you either post that pik here or PM me it please?

The Vet can't get away with just ignoring significant lacerations on ANY horse let alone a Fav....especially when the RIU didn't even bother reprimanding him let alone remind him of the Rule

[Thomass]

5 hours ago, Pitman said:

Yes they did, but they gave away many thousands of dollars along with the racecourse. Maybe they now regret what they did and they should. The circuit would have been four days if Westland had “worked in” with NZTR . But no that President and committee wiped out 150 years of voluntary work, owners and trainers support now they are wanting to resurrect their identity. By the way I signed the petition but I am happy just supporting Reefton and Kumara

Good to see you here ...

Can you tell me if you've made an official complaint about your horse being passed fit to race with "significant lacerations and cuts about the eye"

 

 

[Reefton]

12 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Cheers for that...can you either post that pik here or PM me it please?

The Vet can't get away with just ignoring significant lacerations on ANY horse let alone a Fav....especially when the RIU didn't even bother reprimanding him let alone remind him of the Rule

no I can't sorry as Michael showed me them(only because I asked - he certainly did not volunteer them nor was he especially critical about the call to not scratch - critical but not vehemently so)

And I don't think it will do us any good to be too critical of the vet.  He is all we(the Coast) have, a member of my Reefton Committee and I believe the horse would have been competitive regardless if he had had an uninterrupted passage.  The issue would never have occurred had the race run to time but if you have never made a mistake in your live then as the bible says 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

I know Iive made millions of errors but generally out of the public sight

 

[Tesio]

38 minutes ago, curious said:

You simply don't get it do you? The primary object of the Westland club is to conduct race meetings at their home course in Hokitika. The right to do so was removed by the RB and NZTR.

The purpose and intent of their constitution is quite clear. In the event of dissolution, subject to legislative requirements, "The Club will seek NZTR approval to dispose of surplus assets for the benefit of residents of Westland".  All they have done is pre-empted the NZTR approval of that by acting as and when they did.

There never was an object or intent to provide for the "betterment of West Coast racing" though they appear to be doing that anyway by supporting this petition and the loan to Kumara, for example.

We will agree to disagree Curious......Westland made their bed, now they can lie in it. 

 

[Reefton]

17 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Good to see you here ...

Can you tell me if you've made an official complaint about your horse being passed fit to race with "significant lacerations and cuts about the eye"

 

 

Hardly going to make an official complaint when one of the horse's owners is the President of the Club.  And what happens next year when the vet gets the shits and we don't have one?

The complaint ought to have been into the two Harris horses not being late scratched when the inital confusion arose.  The delay clearly wound Wild Rover up but there have been plenty would up in the past while Te Akau runners with barrier blankets or Kawi for that matter strolled around behind the gates with their favourable treatment in the start area.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Westland made their bed, now they can lie in it.

No their bed was made FOR them and they chose not to lie in that one.

You make the assumption that the strategy chosen by NZTR is the right one however based on their track record to date one could argue that WRC made the right decision with some justification.

Please detail what outcome you expected.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Tesio said:

I wonder how many people from the Hokitika community went to the Kumara races yesterday?

I will guarantee a bloody sight more (on a per capita basis) than went to Ellerslie on Boxing day

[Reefton]

28 minutes ago, Tesio said:

We will agree to disagree Curious......Westland made their bed, now they can lie in it. 

 

No you utter dimwit - it was NZTR and Winston who made the bed - let those pricks lie on it.  They are the ones who cost NZ racing the money and assets by not dismissing the Messara report immediately. 

You want the WRC to give up everything they have(had) but deny the logical move that the ARC's of this world should make to make best use of what they have

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Reefton said:

I will guarantee a bloody sight more (on a per capita basis) than went to Ellerslie on Boxing day

I assume you are not talking just about Hokitika people 😉 at Ellerslie!

But to quote Cameron George "when you have a good crowd at Ellerslie it doesn't look like it because it is so big and there are so many places to hide"!

At Kumara you have nowhere to hide!

[Tesio]

3 minutes ago, Reefton said:

I will guarantee a bloody sight more (on a per capita basis) than went to Ellerslie on Boxing day

Yep Hoki community fully supporting Kumara races (which by they way is great to see). So is it the Hoki community or certain individuals in the Westland Racing club that have their noses out of joint. Community has carried on enjoying racing ....17 miles up the road. So did NZTR make the right decision?

[Tesio]

4 minutes ago, Reefton said:

No you utter dimwit - it was NZTR and Winston who made the bed - let those pricks lie on it.  They are the ones who cost NZ racing the money and assets by not dismissing the Messara report immediately. 

You want the WRC to give up everything they have(had) but deny the logical move that the ARC's of this world should make to make best use of what they have

No Reefton .......WRC could still have everything and merged  or maybe raced at another course.....but no..... “dimwit”decisions were made.

 

[nomates]

6 minutes ago, Tesio said:

No Reefton .......WRC could still have everything and merged  or maybe raced at another course.....but no..... “dimwit”decisions were made.

 

Tesio , read what i said above , this is one industry so therefor the whole industry should should have been involved in the process . It turned into a shitfest when this didn't happen . 

If they continue to go down this path then look forward to more clubs acting like the one being discussed . 

[Shad]

1 hour ago, Thomass said:

Cheers for that...can you either post that pik here or PM me it please?

The Vet can't get away with just ignoring significant lacerations on ANY horse let alone a Fav....especially when the RIU didn't even bother reprimanding him let alone remind him of the Rule

Hope he had his skull cap on as part of the starting crew at the trots, compulsory.

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Yep Hoki community fully supporting Kumara races (which by they way is great to see). So is it the Hoki community or certain individuals in the Westland Racing club that have their noses out of joint. Community has carried on enjoying racing ....17 miles up the road. So did NZTR make the right decision?

You don't get it at all do you?  Hokitika always supported Kumara as a RACEDAY.  However you completely miss the point.  Kumara as a community asset is nothing!  It has no community.  

Your logic regarding it "only being 17 miles up the road" shows a complete misunderstanding of what makes country racing tick.  You could apply this dumb logic to Greymouth as Kumara is only 17 miles DOWN the road!

The Hokitika Community supported Hokitika racecourse as a VENUE and COMMUNITY ASSET - they won't support Kumara as a Community Asset because it isn't in THEIR community.  They also have the sense to understand that Kumara as a venue has serious issues that no matter how much money your threw at it it wouldn't fix it. 

If you use your logic why would the WRC bother with merging with Kumara why not pitch up to Riccarton and use a couple of the 40 AWT racedays?  

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, Tesio said:

No Reefton .......WRC could still have everything and merged  or maybe raced at another course.....but no..... “dimwit”decisions were made.

Why choose Kumara over the WRC?  I know one of Reeftons' beef's is that the criteria for the decision that are being made is not known.  It would appear those decision are not made on fundamentals.

[Tesio]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You don't get it at all do you?  Hokitika always supported Kumara as a RACEDAY.  However you completely miss the point.  Kumara as a community asset is nothing!  It has no community.  

Your logic regarding it "only being 17 miles up the road" shows a complete misunderstanding of what makes country racing tick.  You could apply this dumb logic to Greymouth as Kumara is only 17 miles DOWN the road!

The Hokitika Community supported Hokitika racecourse as a VENUE and COMMUNITY ASSET - they won't support Kumara as a Community Asset because it isn't in THEIR community.  They also have the sense to understand that Kumara as a venue has serious issues that no matter how much money your threw at it it wouldn't fix it. 

Yet Kumara is one of the most popular race meetings in the country...