Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tesio said: Yet Kumara is one of the most popular race meetings in the country... Based on what criteria? Attendance - Yeah na. Turnover - yeah na. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Based on what criteria? Attendance - Yeah na. Turnover - yeah na. Based on community attendance.........you seem to be big on ‘community’ when it suits your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Very small community at kumara, but most of the rest of the coast support all meetings, kumara is a racing only course, locked up for the rest of the year and not used for anything else that I'm aware of, even when there was a couple of horses trained at kumara, as far as I know they had to travel to omoto to work their horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Tesio said: Based on community attendance.........you seem to be big on ‘community’ when it suits your argument. I wasn't referring just to attendance on race day - I was also talking about attendance when work is required and when other community events are being held at the community asset. Being "popular" unfortunately isn't the only factor or indeed a major factor in determining the sustainability of a venue. However you only have to look a the paucity of business cases for each of the AWT's to realise that no one in control of the industry either understands what drives the industry let alone what will sustain it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Shad said: Very small community at kumara, but most of the rest of the coast support all meetings, kumara is a racing only course, locked up for the rest of the year and not used for anything else that I'm aware of, even when there was a couple of horses trained at kumara, as far as I know they had to travel to omoto to work their horses. Exactly and that doesn't help it at all - it is a single purpose asset that has no community. However the biggest fundamental issue with Kumara is the track. Now Reefton would know more about this than me and it has been years from when I was on course but from memory Kumara is carved out of the most miserable piece of Pakihi swamp on the whole West Coast. A bog when wet and hard as nails when dry. You'd have to throw a lot of money at it to fix it. But of course we are not worried about the actual product but just the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumbles Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Its very popular because its held once a year.Anymore than that and it will become like every other course in nz,empty. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Shad said: Hope he had his skull cap on as part of the starting crew at the trots, compulsory. take it up with the starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Exactly and that doesn't help it at all - it is a single purpose asset that has no community. However the biggest fundamental issue with Kumara is the track. Now Reefton would know more about this than me and it has been years from when I was on course but from memory Kumara is carved out of the most miserable piece of Pakihi swamp on the whole West Coast. A bog when wet and hard as nails when dry. You'd have to throw a lot of money at it to fix it. But of course we are not worried about the actual product but just the event. Yes it is swamp but for now anyway it seems OK. The question is how long it( the current improvements) will last given they constantly ask for volunteers to help and insofar as I know there is a very small group of devotees, several in them in their 80's. The last lot done 20 or so years ago lasted not too long before the swamp traits resurfaced. Apparently the had a couple of young ones on there who quickly realised that the were there to work their butt off but to be ignored when any half significant decision needed making. They soon drifted away. The pigs rooting is a fallacy of course - they didn't do any mowing of their track in the 2019 winter then when it was too long got a contractor in to make baleage - the pig rooting was the ruts the deeply bogged tractor created. Kumara also don't own their track - they lease it off the Westland District Council. So the net worth of the club would be minimal. Still it is a talking point and I saw an awful lot of people there yesterday that only come home once a year (for instance the Herald Racing Editor who was rather incognito but nevertheless full of his usual humour and goodwill towards Coast Racing). Edited January 10, 2021 by Reefton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 42 minutes ago, mumbles said: Its very popular because its held once a year.Anymore than that and it will become like every other course in nz,empty. Correct of course - they once ran the Saturday cancelled meeting on the Monday and got a tiny crowd themselves let alone what other Clubs might get if they wanted to race there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Reefton said: Correct of course - they once ran the Saturday cancelled meeting on the Monday and got a tiny crowd themselves let alone what other Clubs might get if they wanted to race there. I believe Hokitika raced there once, it was a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Reefton said: Kumara also don't own their track - they lease it off the Westland District Council. So the net worth of the club would be minimal. OK that explains how the land has never been listed in the asset register in the annual reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Freda said: I believe Hokitika raced there once, it was a disaster. Well if you had a team of horses on the Coast you wouldn't stay at Kumara you would either base yourself in Greymouth, Hokitika or Reefton for the very fact that there is more accommodation, watering and feeding options for man (and Freda) and horse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Well if you had a team of horses on the Coast you wouldn't stay at Kumara you would either base yourself in Greymouth, Hokitika or Reefton for the very fact that there is more accommodation, watering and feeding options for man (and Freda) and horse. There are no stables at Kumara just tie up stalls and maybe a couple of boxes for colts. So you could not stay there even if you wanted to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, Reefton said: There are no stables at Kumara just tie up stalls and maybe a couple of boxes for colts. So you could not stay there even if you wanted to I thought so. Some people have no idea of the logistics of organising a race meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Reefton said: Hardly going to make an official complaint when one of the horse's owners is the President of the Club. And what happens next year when the vet gets the shits and we don't have one? The complaint ought to have been into the two Harris horses not being late scratched when the inital confusion arose. The delay clearly wound Wild Rover up but there have been plenty would up in the past while Te Akau runners with barrier blankets or Kawi for that matter strolled around behind the gates with their favourable treatment in the start area. Fair enouge I guess that's the consideration at Bush meetings... If one complains one might find ones tyres let down or slashed when returning to the float area... Im sure you're not suggesting it was ok to run an injured horse though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Cancellations of there meetings only started after the so called track upgrade, done more damage than good, in the early years the going never really changed, whether it was wet or dry for a month, track resembled a soft sponge, always safe and no cancellations that I can recall, the last time I attended was the first cancellation after one race, may have been the year they got the helicopter in, never worked, lost track of how many canned meetings since.As we have discussed before, many tracks have been in the same boat after these so called improvements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 You're quite right there, more expertise = less common sense in many cases. However, you must factor in modern H&S requirements which did not exist yesteryear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Fair enouge I guess that's the consideration at Bush meetings... If one complains one might find ones tyres let down or slashed when returning to the float area... Im sure you're not suggesting it was ok to run an injured horse though? Michael let the Vet and the stipes know in no uncertain terms he was unhappy and certainly I do not want to see an injured horse run especially when there is so much TAB support for it. I would err on the side of caution in every case and would have preferred the horse be withdrawn. But I have no power of course(rightly so) and was getting more and more pissed off at the circus unfolding in front of me at that time so the last thing I was interested in was that horse. For all that he was a little bit of a false favourite based on an impressive trial albeit two months ago. I certainly was not told of any real strong stable confidence and suspect he would not have been there but for the fact that it is my Club. I backed him myself and have high hopes for his future but am realistic that that experience may not do him any good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I thought so. Some people have no idea of the logistics of organising a race meeting. Well that is another example of the way Kumara relies on the other clubs. During wet circuits the Greymouth course proper has been turned into a plough with horses galloping and our course bears the scars this year given we probably had 50 horses there. But in general I do not believe they have any interest in that aspect - too busy organising a piss up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, Freda said: You're quite right there, more expertise = less common sense in many cases. However, you must factor in modern H&S requirements which did not exist yesteryear. Very true H&S has certainly ramped up these days, but cant recall any major incidents in those early years, that I can think of, I know they did race regardless of weather or track, that was basically always wet and spongy, the trouble is many are searching for the perfect track, and in my opinion make them just to good, hence the issues of light rain on a very good surface, and we all know the outcome of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Freda said: I believe Hokitika raced there once, it was a disaster. So it Greymouth once and it was a disaster too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 12 hours ago, Reefton said: Michael let the Vet and the stipes know in no uncertain terms he was unhappy and certainly I do not want to see an injured horse run especially when there is so much TAB support for it. I would err on the side of caution in every case and would have preferred the horse be withdrawn. But I have no power of course(rightly so) and was getting more and more pissed off at the circus unfolding in front of me at that time so the last thing I was interested in was that horse. For all that he was a little bit of a false favourite based on an impressive trial albeit two months ago. I certainly was not told of any real strong stable confidence and suspect he would not have been there but for the fact that it is my Club. I backed him myself and have high hopes for his future but am realistic that that experience may not do him any good. It's just all so laissez faire and not enough fear isn't it? Harris was fined 4 Hundy after taking the rap but the Jockeys mounted the wrong horses after not bothering to check which number they were on... ...all participants should have been immediately breath and drug tested ...and the coup de grace for this debacle was the 'upholders of INTEGRITY' the hopeless RIU, thought simply passing an amateur Vet test was ok... ...even though the poor animal had lacerations and cuts over its eye... ...that's against the protocols while the Vet didn't even get a severe reprimand let alone a wrist slap... It was good to go according to the 'Vet'...and the RIU said "fine" ...if the non racing taxpayers, who fund this Industry, found out injured horses are 'good to go' without any reprecussions they'd be horrified Im not surprised Pitty doesn't want to come on here and comment because he doesn't want to rock the sinking integrity boat any further ...but he should really....and make that Official complaint to Bernard...who he knows well If stakeholders turn a blind eye nothing will ever improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, Thomass said: It's just all so laissez faire and not enough fear isn't it? Harris was fined 4 Hundy after taking the rap but the Jockeys mounted the wrong horses after not bothering to check which number they were on... ...all participants should have been immediately breath and drug tested ...and the coup de grace for this debacle was the 'upholders of INTEGRITY' the hopeless RIU, thought simply passing an amateur Vet test was ok... ...even though the poor animal had lacerations and cuts over its eye... ...that's against the protocols while the Vet didn't even get a severe reprimand let alone a wrist slap... It was good to go according to the 'Vet'...and the RIU said "fine" ...if the non racing taxpayers, who fund this Industry, found out injured horses are 'good to go' without any reprecussions they'd be horrified Im not surprised Pitty doesn't want to come on here and comment because he doesn't want to rock the sinking integrity boat any further ...but he should really....and make that Official complaint to Bernard...who he knows well If stakeholders turn a blind eye nothing will ever improve Have you got a good word to say about anything in this game? FFS man Paul Harris made a mistake in legging up his riders and so apparently did the Vet. Nobody died or even got majorly hurt and insofar as I know the horse is OK. His favouritism was probably not justified but in any event he possibly would have won or at least run in the first three with a clear run. If that is the biggest issue facing NZ Racing it is eff all Let it go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 About six or seven weeks ago at Cromwell Mark Davidson spotted people on the track prior(and I mean about a minute before the start) to a race and held up the event while the idiots were cleared. It was top work on his part(and I told him so at Reefton) but did anyone make a big fuss? He possibly averted a tragedy unprecedented in NZ Racing by doing his job correctly(you could say the Club ought to have had an outside fence and/or security but regardless Mark did his job extremely well) Nobody is interested in that but it should be remembered. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Reefton said: Have you got a good word to say about anything in this game? FFS man Paul Harris made a mistake in legging up his riders and so apparently did the Vet. Nobody died or even got majorly hurt and insofar as I know the horse is OK. His favouritism was probably not justified but in any event he possibly would have won or at least run in the first three with a clear run. If that is the biggest issue facing NZ Racing it is eff all Let it go Absolutely, I often post with a positivity bent...and numerous items of interest... By it's nature chat sites are more slanted to controversy though and rigorous informed debate...and I pride myself on fact based rigour btw... As I said Harris took the rap on this...when it was a Jockey losing his mind...see bottom "Nobody died" is an awful cop out though... And so is "favouritism not justified"...that's irrelevant The overarching disgrace is the RIU rubber stamping the Vets appalling lack of professionalism in allowing a bleeding, injured horse to start... They clearly agreed with it, merely reporting the "Vet passed it fit" Which is totally against the Rules Yes mistakes happen but once recognised should be immediately ameliorated...that's the RIU's job... 'Just do their Job' should be their byline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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