Forbury Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Forbury I'm not going to tolerate hearsay and speculation on this topic of the type you engage in. So be warned. Ok but it's true i understand.i hear the big name drivers will be back in court in March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 7 hours ago, the galah said: Not talking about kerr here, but don't think you can say "nearly always gets jail time" for anyone charged with that offence. Doesn't it depend on the scale of the offending,previous history,remorse,who the judge is,etc? Talking about Jail time seems a bit unrealistic to me. In general offending uner this charge is deemed that you have breached trust by the courts. That is treated as a serious matter as you have given the person money or access to it in the good faith that they will honour and look after the trust you have placed in them. Treated way more seriously than if you commit theft of an unknown person. Plenty of case law available if you reserch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Harewood said: In general offending uner this charge is deemed that you have breached trust by the courts. That is treated as a serious matter as you have given the person money or access to it in the good faith that they will honour and look after the trust you have placed in them. Treated way more seriously than if you commit theft of an unknown person. Plenty of case law available if you reserch it. Do you have legal training? The issue with your assessment is that you have no idea of the outcomes of all cases pertaining to this crime. I would imagine like most of us your sample is biased to those that are published in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 39 minutes ago, Forbury said: Ok but it's true i understand.i hear the big name drivers will be back in court in March. Heard from where? In relation to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 11 hours ago, Harewood said: It is now known as Theft by a person in a special relationship. and definately covers what he did. 220Theft by person in special relationship (1) This section applies to any person who has received or is in possession of, or has control over, any property on terms or in circumstances that the person knows require the person— (a) to account to any other person for the property, or for any proceeds arising from the property; or (b) to deal with the property, or any proceeds arising from the property, in accordance with the requirements of any other person. (2) Every one to whom subsection (1) applies commits theft who intentionally fails to account to the other person as so required or intentionally deals with the property, or any proceeds of the property, otherwise than in accordance with those requirements. Not that I'm a legal eagle by any stretch - I think the following section is the one that applies - namely falsely using a document to obtain a pecuniary advantage: 240Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception (1) Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,— (a) obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or (b) in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or (c) induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or (d) causes loss to any other person. (1A) Every person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years who, without reasonable excuse, sells, transfers, or otherwise makes available any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage knowing that, by deception and without claim of right, the document or thing was, or was caused to be, delivered, executed, made, accepted, endorsed, or altered. (2) In this section, deception means— (a) a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and— (i) knows that it is false in a material particular; or (ii) is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or (b) an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or (c) a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Not that I'm a legal eagle by any stretch - I think the following section is the one that applies - namely falsely using a document to obtain a pecuniary advantage: 240Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception (1) Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,— (a) obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or (b) in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or (c) induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or (d) causes loss to any other person. (1A) Every person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years who, without reasonable excuse, sells, transfers, or otherwise makes available any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage knowing that, by deception and without claim of right, the document or thing was, or was caused to be, delivered, executed, made, accepted, endorsed, or altered. (2) In this section, deception means— (a) a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and— (i) knows that it is false in a material particular; or (ii) is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or (b) an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or (c) a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any There are so many different charges that he could be charged on Got know idea why you are guessing as you said your not a legal eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mehe said: There are so many different charges that he could be charged on Like what? 5 minutes ago, Mehe said: Got know idea why you are guessing as you said your not a legal eagle Mehe in case you haven't realised yet BOAY is a forum where you post opinions. I have an alternative opinion to Harewood's. Is that OK? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Like what? Mehe in case you haven't realised yet BOAY is a forum where you post opinions. I have an alternative opinion to Harewood's. Is that OK? Yes I know but you are telling everyone else to be careful what they say so are you saying that its only your opinions that are aloud on here as you have told hunter and forbury to be careful Edited December 22, 2020 by Mehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Mehe said: Yes I know but you are telling everyone else to be careful what they say so are you saying that its only your opinions that are aloud on here as you have told hunter and forbury to be careful No you are missing the point. Posters were starting to make accusations BEYOND what was published in the media i.e. they were directly accusing or inferring that Kerr was responsible for a number of crimes that hadn't been published. All I posted was a section from the Crimes Act under which I believed Kerr MAY be charged based on what was written in the Stuff article. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Forbury said: Ok but it's true i understand.i hear the big name drivers will be back in court in March. to have their charges dismissed ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: No you are missing the point. Posters were starting to make accusations BEYOND what was published in the media i.e. they were directly accusing or inferring that Kerr was responsible for a number of crimes that hadn't been published. All I posted was a section from the Crimes Act under which I believed Kerr MAY be charged based on what was written in the Stuff article. There is a difference. hold the phone chief hunter was talking about a race in Auckland and Mitchell did not have a horse in that race . great trainer Mitchell great fan of his training 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: great trainer Mitchell great fan of his training noble mistress all the proof you need 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 minute ago, hunterthepunter said: hold the phone chief hunter was talking about a race in Auckland and Mitchell did not have a horse in that race . great trainer Mitchell great fan of his training I wasn't referring to one individual in particular Hunter. I was just doing my host responsibility advising posters to be careful about what they posted. Now I had to do some research on that Auckland race because I took the inference that it was related to Kerr. I couldn't find any link. I think young Kerr has a lot on his plate without the harness community starting to blame him for all Harness Racing issues. Just trying to be fair - that isn't easy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: The blood tests were negative. bloods come back good .but scope showed what 3 vets had never seen in a life time blasters all the way down a horses throat and around the horses lungs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Just now, hunterthepunter said: bloods come back good .but scope showed what 3 vets had never seen in a life time blasters all the way down a horses throat and around the horses lungs Probably horse Covid-18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 WTF? Of course this will end in court. Tip of the iceberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Rangatira said: Did you have any money on Unique rose today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Newmarket said: WTF? Of course this will end in court. Tip of the iceberg I think the discussion is about what charges and whether or not jail time will be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I think the discussion is about what charges and whether or not jail time will be done. Well, people go to jail for fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Well, people go to jail for fraud. Not all people. Depends on a lot of factors. For example are we talking millions of dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Rangatira said: noble mistress all the proof you need He didnt train it though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Rangatira said: noble mistress all the proof you need bullshit matt trained that horse and drove it top bloke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbury Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: bullshit matt trained that horse and drove it top bloke Didnt he beat up his noble mistress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbury Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Not all people. Depends on a lot of factors. For example are we talking millions of dollars? Thats right we have to wait for full story and highly likely court.its not always cut and dry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Harewood said: He didnt train it though oooops a daisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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