Jesse Alford

[Davis]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

So all this focus on condemning who writes the stories,and not one reference from all those making the recent posts condemning the actions of those he writes about.   Says a lot,and i'm giving up pointing that out. 

More garbage. I, and most on here, do not support the likes of McGrath, Alford and Kerr. I condemn their actions and think all of them should be barred from harness racing forever.

Harness racing is only a small cottage industry really, popular in the Canterbury and Southland strongholds, with some support in other parts of the country. This negative publicity is because of a few greedy cheating individuals who should be gone from the industry. The rest in the industry are mainly hardworking and honest.

We are angry about the unbalanced nature of the reporting, that is all. It is gutter journalism from MVB and now this Sherwood fella, regurgitating old news with nothing new to add just for sensationalism. The Star stories provide a little more balance but still negative. We are just asking for a fair go, is that too much to ask?

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Davis said:

More garbage. I, and most on here, do not support the likes of McGrath, Alford and Kerr. I condemn their actions and think all of them should be barred from harness racing forever.

Harness racing is only a small cottage industry really, popular in the Canterbury and Southland strongholds, with some support in other parts of the country. This negative publicity is because of a few greedy cheating individuals who should be gone from the industry. The rest in the industry are mainly hardworking and honest.

We are angry about the unbalanced nature of the reporting, that is all. It is gutter journalism from MVB and now this Sherwood fella, regurgitating old news with nothing new to add just for sensationalism. The Star stories provide a little more balance but still negative. We are just asking for a fair go, is that too much to ask?

You can think what you want about what i say. 

But just because you condemn those who have transgressed in your current post does not mean "most on here" have posted opinions condemning their actions.  We can't be reading the same things on here. The focus for many has clearly been on attacking the RIU and the press. 

I actually think you expressing the view that the likes of mcgrath and alford should be banned forever is a typical over  reaction from someone who is taking things completely out of context,similar to what you have with the press articles.

Why on earth should alford,who has no previous history,be banned for life. Why should Mcgrath get a life ban? How could that possibly be fair when you compare what has happened to others in the past,yet you call my opinion garbage.

What next. What say someone comes up in court in the future on drugs charges. Will you want them gone forever as well?

Your saying harness racing is the victim of sensationalism and unbalanced reporting by the press. Well thats the world we live in. At least i have expressed constructive ways of how industry leaders should be handling that side of things. You just go on about how harness racing is the victim.How does that help change the news cycle?

Edited March 17, 2021 by the galah

[Davis]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

Why on earth should alford,who has no previous history,be banned for life. Why should Mcgrath get a life ban? How could that possibly be fair when you compare what has happened to others in the past,yet you call my opinion garbage.

 

McGrath is a serial offender. He has had the opportunity to change his ways and atone for his past indiscretions. He has been given a "fair" go previously and despite that he resorts to his cheating ways. How many chances should he get before getting a life ban?

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Davis said:

McGrath is a serial offender. He has had the opportunity to change his ways and atone for his past indiscretions. He has been given a "fair" go previously and despite that he resorts to his cheating ways. How many chances should he get before getting a life ban?

They could introduce minimum penalties for breaches of certain rules if previous breaches of the same rule has occurred. Perhaps a 3 strike rule could be introduced for the type of offence being discussed.

That would help give the impression they were getting tough,but personally i  think in reality it wouldn't change or help much,and some industry participants would most likely not support its introduction.

Edited March 18, 2021 by the galah

[Basil]

7 hours ago, Davis said:

More garbage. I, and most on here, do not support the likes of McGrath, Alford and Kerr. I condemn their actions and think all of them should be barred from harness racing forever.

Harness racing is only a small cottage industry really, popular in the Canterbury and Southland strongholds, with some support in other parts of the country. This negative publicity is because of a few greedy cheating individuals who should be gone from the industry. The rest in the industry are mainly hardworking and honest.

We are angry about the unbalanced nature of the reporting, that is all. It is gutter journalism from MVB and now this Sherwood fella, regurgitating old news with nothing new to add just for sensationalism. The Star stories provide a little more balance but still negative. We are just asking for a fair go, is that too much to ask?

The sad fact of the matter is that too many harness participants got away with far too much for far too long, and now the chickens are coming home to roost: 100+ years of overly-friendly reporting has been replaced by something a bit more honest. If the harness industry wants to change that, it needs to take its head out the sand, stop scapegoating a 'few greedy cheating individuals', and recognise that there's a deep and systematic problem which needs to be rooted out. 

In short, The Galah is right and no amount of playing-the-victim is going to change that.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Basil said:

recognise that there's a deep and systematic problem which needs to be rooted out. 

Show me the evidence!

[Davis]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

They could introduce minimum penalties for breaches of certain rules if previous breaches of the same rule has occurred. Perhaps a 3 strike rule could be introduced for the type of offence being discussed.

That would help give the impression they were getting tough,but personally i  think in reality it wouldn't change or help much,and some industry participants would most likely not support its introduction.

McGrath has broken the rules at least three times so he should be gone for good?

[Karrots]

2 hours ago, Basil said:

The sad fact of the matter is that too many harness participants got away with far too much for far too long,

Hey Basil, How are you doing today? Interesting who do you mean here? Learning, don’t know much, read something from Forbs posts of Blue Magic or something, did they not get done for that or do you refer to something else? Was that thru the news at time or no? I don’t know so ask.

2 hours ago, Basil said:

100+ years of overly-friendly reporting has been replaced by something a bit more honest.

Honest yes, but repetitive & OTT. 3-4 articles on the same subject. Maybe murderers get the same coverage, apologies for making the comparasion, but I just couldn’t really think of anything else to compare that may get same coverage. Take burglars, do they get 3-4 articles of their offence in media or just 1 or none?

Then bringing up old cases on top of that, that have already been well publicised, yet they attach it to latest stories.

Why is it they are doing that? Yes I get that that seems to be thing they are allowed to do, but I feel they just do it to put the boot in. (Which is what some of us are trying to point out).

Does every burglar gets his/her name mentioned again mostly every time there is another burglary?

2 hours ago, Basil said:

 If the harness industry wants to change that, it needs to take its head out the sand, stop scapegoating a 'few greedy cheating individuals', and recognise that there's a deep and systematic problem which needs to be rooted out. 

What is the deep systematic prob. I don’t know maybe you are onto something. What do you mean?

Anyway I have just decided to agree to disagree. There are 2 view-points here. And that is fine. Who knows who’s view-point is right. But I feel 1 side is putting words in the other sides mouth. (We are not siding with the accused, no that is not the case, nor are we saying that none of it should be out in the public).

Good debate tho. Good to have 2 sides 2 voices.

Personally I do not think this will go away in a hurry. Think this is potentially go on for another 6-12 months minimum re Press/Star.

When I read Stuff news now main page, I scroll all the way to the bottom, to the other regions & look to see if there is “Harness” word in any of The Press titles. Thats how I found this latest 1. Why am I doing that? Perhaps, because now I am conditioned to expect something negative weekly, even if its just a re-hash or similar. (AND that is the point/issue raised here).

Anyway I said I wouldn’t comment on any other news article arrgh yikes and here I go again. Sorry team. Figure tho, if they are allowed to just repeat, repeat, repeat same or similar thing, and have people defend that then why can't Karrots lol (cheeky monkey).

2 hours ago, Basil said:

In short, The Galah is right and no amount of playing-the-victim is going to change that.

Galah gets our side of view point, as he has stated to a degree so, and started a topic called how to deal with negative media. I also get your guys side the other side of the debate too. You want things publicised, which I agree with to an extend.

How it is currently is in my opinion way OTT. 

[whiplash smile]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

You can think what you want about what i say. 

But just because you condemn those who have transgressed in your current post does not mean "most on here" have posted opinions condemning their actions.  We can't be reading the same things on here. The focus for many has clearly been on attacking the RIU and the press. 

I actually think you expressing the view that the likes of mcgrath and alford should be banned forever is a typical over  reaction from someone who is taking things completely out of context,similar to what you have with the press articles.

Why on earth should alford,who has no previous history,be banned for life. Why should Mcgrath get a life ban? How could that possibly be fair when you compare what has happened to others in the past,yet you call my opinion garbage.

What next. What say someone comes up in court in the future on drugs charges. Will you want them gone forever as well?

Your saying harness racing is the victim of sensationalism and unbalanced reporting by the press. Well thats the world we live in. At least i have expressed constructive ways of how industry leaders should be handling that side of things. You just go on about how harness racing is the victim.How does that help change the news cycle?

Two suicides in comparison should constitute a lifetime ban, you know who im talking about, ann seaton certainly felt that way in court towards a certain trainer, who decided it was time to go on holiday to avoid the media!

[Basil]

16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Show me the evidence!

OMG, just look around you! This hear-no-evil-see-no-evil mindset that's so prevalent in the harness industry is what's killing it. Circling the wagons only ever has one outcome...

Everybody repeat after me:

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

Harness racing's wounds are self-inflicted and blaming the media is just shooting the messenger.

 

I trust that's now clear (although I suspect for many on here it won't be).

 

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, Basil said:

OMG, just look around you! This hear-no-evil-see-no-evil mindset that's so prevalent in the harness industry is what's killing it. Circling the wagons only ever has one outcome...

You said there was a "deep and systemic problem" in harness racing.  The inference being that corruption is endemic.  Yet there is no evidence to support that and you have provided none.

Repeat after me:

"Just because the same news about a handful of individuals is rehashed every week doesn't mean there is endemic corruption"!

"I will not believe in conspiracies where there is no evidence"!

I would have thought you of all people Basil would understand evidence based research.

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

You said there was a "deep and systemic problem" in harness racing.  The inference being that corruption is endemic.  Yet there is no evidence to support that and you have provided none.

what will inca eventually says about this given its pointed the finger at a few

how many race related match fixing convictions will there be

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

You said there was a "deep and systemic problem" in harness racing.  The inference being that corruption is endemic.  Yet there is no evidence to support that and you have provided none.

Repeat after me:

"Just because the same news about a handful of individuals is rehashed every week doesn't mean there is endemic corruption"!

"I will not believe in conspiracies where there is no evidence"!

I would have thought you of all people Basil would understand evidence based research.

You know i once had a fella train a horse for me, a very ,very good trainer. He no longer trains. This would be 2O years ago.

One of the things he said to me i remember. He said if you knew  you were competing against others who were giving stuff that gave them an advantage over yours,then what would you do. Would you want to get left behind...or words to that effect.

Then about 10 years ago when travelling with another trainer i knew, he was telling me about a conversation he had with another leading trainer that week who was complaining about another  high profile trainer having something that was giving their horses an edge. The fella i was talking to said he told the trainer your only unhappy because what you use to help performance isn't as good,to which he said the trainer replied well yeah. Both trainers had positives not long after,but not because the ineffective riu at the time actually wanted to catch them.

I also had another conversation about the same time where we discussed a recent RIU press release that said they were aware a small group of stables were using a drug which they were going to start testing for and told trainers not to continue using it. That was at a time when the RIU used to sweep everything under the carpet because they didn't want the bad publicity. The trainer i was talking too joked as to what stables would lose form and who the vet was  who had put the trainers on to the performance enhancer. He also joked how long it would be before they got back into form. Sure enough the stables he named all lost a leg for a month,but then miraculously all came back into form. 

Then there was the time about 20 years ago when an owner i knew was telling me how the really nice horse he had trained in the north island had just up and dropped dead,and that the said trainer  had 3 die that week in similar circumstances,which he thought very suspicious. He changed trainers after that. 

But the most telling thing is what you see with your own eyes. As i have said,i think things are currently as honest as they have for some time.But that is only because we have a pro active RIU. In the past the RIU have been complicit by overlooking and pre warning trainers.

You can't just change overnight attitudes learnt over long periods of time. However you have to start somewhere,and thats what we are currently living. The key is for the RIU to continue what they have started and help make permanent changes to peoples attitudes and behaviors.

Edited March 18, 2021 by the galah

[Brodie]

The Plonker VB is at it again in The Press!!!!!

FFS he is such a loser journalist.

He has now noted that 2 of Jesse Alford’s formerhorses  are lining up for other trainers!!!
Galah, please acknowledge that this Plonker and his mate are totally over the top with this assassination of harness participants!

[Chief Stipe]

Yeah what WAS the point of this article?

Horses involved in alleged doping scandal back racing again

Martin Van Beynen19:55, Mar 19 2021

 

ALDEN WILLIAMS/STUFF

The Motukarara Races this Sunday will feature a horse at the centre of an alleged doping scandal. (File photo)

All eyes will be on race three at the Banks Peninsula Trotting Club meet at Motukarara on Sunday, where a horse involved in alleged doping is expected to run.

The race features a five-year-old gelding called Johnny Nevits, which was allegedly injected and tubed only three weeks ago by Canterbury trainer Jesse Alford.

The horse will be driven by Tim Williams in the 2000m Probuild Rolleston ITM for non-winners older than four years. The race at the track on the outskirts on Christchurch carries a prize of $8000.

Johnny Nevits was transferred to the Woodend training facility of trainer Cam Jones after Harness New Zealand suspended Alford’s licence.

Alford has been charged with administering a prohibited substance and attempting to administer a prohibited substance on race day.Racing Integrity Unit investigators raided Alford’s stables at Woodend Beach in February, finding syringes and other equipment used for tubing horses. It is understood Alford was seen injecting a substance into Johnny Nevits and also inserting a tube into its nose.

Alford will be dealt with at a Judicial Control Authority hearing, the date of which has yet to be set.

Cam Jones, who did not respond to calls from Stuff, has had a stellar start to his training career. In 21 starts, he has posted five wins, four seconds and two thirds, ensuring he is a trainer to watch.

Motor Mouth, another horse involved in the incident at Alford’s stables and which is now also trained by Cam Jones, is racing at Forbury Park in Dunedin on Monday.

The gelding, which will be driven by Sheree Tomlinson, is entered in the Living Corporation Ltd Mobile Pacer – a race for pacers three years and older who have never won a race. Prize money of $7000 is on offer.

Racing Integrity Unit general manager Mike Godber said the horses were entitled to start in the races as they had met pre-race conditions.

The normal testing regime would apply to the races, he said.

[Chief Stipe]

Why isn't The Press across this?

 

[Karrots]

What is this, stink they didn’t even wait for me to get the odds up today for our new guessing game. They just ploughed ahead.

After having to do an update here are the new re-vamped out,

Can you correctly pick the next timeframe when next negative article from either Press/Star on Harness will be out?

Here are your odds?

0-4 days  $5

5-9 “    “   $2.5

10-14 “  “  $3.5

15-19 “   “ $4

20-24 “   “ $7

25-29 “    “ $20

30+    “    “ $50

Karrots selection is going for the shorts 5-9 days @ $2.5

[the galah]

13 hours ago, Brodie said:

The Plonker VB is at it again in The Press!!!!!

FFS he is such a loser journalist.

He has now noted that 2 of Jesse Alford’s formerhorses  are lining up for other trainers!!!
Galah, please acknowledge that this Plonker and his mate are totally over the top with this assassination of harness participants!

Well i will tell you what i think Brodie.

I think the press reporters know there is more to come and they are keeping this subject on the boil. They ,and those who decide what they print deem it news worthy.  

Isn't it about time you started filling in the dots.How about lets look at it from a horse performance point of view,which the press have not really touched on so far.

Well those who have been the subject of the stories are.

 

Matt anderson. Now i'm sure brodie you started a thread on the horse Noble mistress after matt anderson took over the training of this struggling non win trotter after it  won by 10 lengths at addington in a very fast time. You questioned how could that happen. Who's a close associate, mitchell kerr. Anderson was Mitchell kerrs regular driver.Anderson also drove for jesse alford.

Mitchell Kerr. This stable has long been the subject of innuendo relating to horse performances. The one off turnaround in form by arcano at addington was the subject of a bit of a yarn topic. Well who did Kerr also help out.  steve dolan.

Steve dolan. The amazing win by the horse tall poppy at timaru. that day it jogged 2000m in 2.25 horse,winning by 12 lengths and looked like it could have just kept running at the finish. When stewards received information that Dolan had in fact given the horse to kerr to train for a few days,and failed to notify authorities,dolan was fined. Remember dolan got that 10 start non win pacer form southland last year, and won by about 18 lengths at addington. I have previously started a  thread on a the performance of his horses.

Jesse alford. Well M Anderson was a driver he often used. The win by the Alford horse at ashburton in 2.55 by a big space was a jaw dropping improvement on its previous runs before joining his stable.Now hes been caught.

So why is cam jones now the focus of the articles. I don't know. What i do know is M kerr and matt anderson were the drivers of the cam jones horse no nuke skipper,who provided jones with most of this seasons wins.

Who is have the press said is lobbying to get matt anderson back into harness racing. Peter jones and ken spicer. Peter jones related to cam jones.Ken spicer former boss at hrnz.    Who has been Nigel Mcraths main supporter. Ken Spicer.

There you go. I have filled in some of the dots for you Brodie. I'm not even privy to what the press know. What i have just written is common knowledge.

And as i have just said earlier. They no doubt have far more to write,its just whether it sees the light of day.

Brodie,you and others can keep telling everyone its all a witch hunt,i don't think so.

Edited March 19, 2021 by the galah

[Karrots]

11 minutes ago, the galah said:

I think the press reporters know there is more to come and they are keeping this subject on the boil. 

Odds are out Galahs come on, join in on the fun & make a debut for 1 of Karrots guessing games 😄

[Rangatira]

16 minutes ago, the galah said:

And as i have just said earlier. They no doubt have far more to write,its just whether it sees the light of day.

are these constant little snipes at industry participants a way for VB to wipe the egg off his face re inca and the admonishment he received from the good judge

Edited March 19, 2021 by Rangatira

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, the galah said:

There you go. I have filled in some of the dots for you Brodie. I'm not even privy to what the press know. What i have just written is common knowledge.

And as i have just said earlier. They no doubt have far more to write,its just whether it sees the light of day.

Brodie,you and others can keep telling everyone its all a witch hunt,i don't think so.

But there is no evidence of the use of performance enhancing drugs.  If the RIU have evidence from testing then they should have laid charges immediately.

I've written about this on the Thoroughbred forum.

 

[Brodie]

18 minutes ago, the galah said:

Well i will tell you what i think Brodie.

I think the press reporters know there is more to come and they are keeping this subject on the boil. They ,and those who decide what they print deem it news worthy.  

Isn't it about time you started filling in the dots.How about lets look at it from a horse performance point of view,which the press have not really touched on so far.

Well those who have been the subject of the stories are.

 

Matt anderson. Now i'm sure brodie you started a thread on the horse Noble mistress after matt anderson took over the training of this struggling non win trotter after it  won by 10 lengths at addington in a very fast time. You questioned how could that happen. Who's a close associate, mitchell kerr. Anderson was Mitchell kerrs regular driver.Anderson also drove for jesse alford.

Mitchell Kerr. This stable has long been the subject of innuendo relating to horse performances. The one off turnaround in form by arcano at addington was the subject of a bit of a yarn topic. Well who did Kerr also help out.  steve dolan.

Steve dolan. The amazing win by the horse tall poppy at timaru. that day it jogged 2000m in 2.25 horse,winning by 12 lengths and looked like it could have just kept running at the finish. When stewards received information that Dolan had in fact given the horse to kerr to train for a few days,and failed to notify authorities,dolan was fined. Remember dolan got that 10 start non win pacer form southland last year, and won by about 18 lengths at addington. I have previously started a  thread on a the performance of his horses.

Jesse alford. Well M Anderson was a driver he often used. The win by the Alford horse at ashburton in 2.55 by a big space was a jaw dropping improvement on its previous runs before joining his stable.Now hes been caught.

So why is cam jones now the focus of the articles. I don't know. What i do know is M kerr and matt anderson were the drivers of the cam jones horse no nuke skipper,who provided jones with most of this seasons wins.

Who is have the press said is lobbying to get matt anderson back into harness racing. Peter jones and ken spicer. Peter jones related to cam jones.Ken spicer former boss at hrnz.    Who has been Nigel Mcraths main supporter. Ken Spicer.

There you go. I have filled in some of the dots for you Brodie. I'm not even privy to what the press know. What i have just written is common knowledge.

And as i have just said earlier. They no doubt have far more to write,its just whether it sees the light of day.

Brodie,you and others can keep telling everyone its all a witch hunt,i don't think so.

Galah, some very fair points, however it is the gutter journalism by VB and SS and the rehashing and crucifying of harness racing that is abhorrent here!

Yes I appreciate there have been some astonishing turnarounds in horses form etc. and that also includes The Spitfire!

I am certainly not questioning Amber Hoffmans training ability however!

The Inca BS has cost the industry heavily financially and publicity wise and yet still nothing!

Yes I do not condone any cheating but FFS who is it that is feeding this muck raking stuff to The Press?

 

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, the galah said:

I think the press reporters know there is more to come and they are keeping this subject on the boil.

If they know there is "more to come" then they are being fed by someone at the RIU.  Quite frankly that stinks.

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the RV Integrity Commission Inquiry into the actions of the Feds over there.

Maybe there is more to come.  In my opinion there should be an Inquiry into the actions of the Police and RIU regarding INCA.  A lot of public and industry money was squandered on nothing.

[Karrots]

Did a super quick google search, found 5 articles relating to Jesse or his name repeat info. 5 so far, yes that is right 5. As I said OTT. But hey if some think that 5 & counting articles on the same topic are ok to go thru mainstream news on a trainer (note this is not a top trainer or driver) that is tots fine too. As you say Galahs potentially more to come.

Maybe they are aiming for 10 articles on him. They are 1/2 way there. Maybe I could add some odds to (how many articles will be on Jesse in the next 6 months in new fun guessing game 😁).

1. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/124509419/harness-racing-trainer-charged-after-he-was-caught-injecting-horses

2. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/124368208/harness-racing-trainer-suspended-after-being-caught-in-suspected-horse-doping-scandal

3. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/124392505/several-canterbury-harness-racing-trainers-suspected-of-doping-horses (jesses name is at the top of this etc)

4. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/124430317/police-investigating-complaint-about-young-harness-racing-trainer-mitchell-kerr (scroll down & jesse’s case is also included in this)

5. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/124580114/horses-involved-in-alleged-doping-scandal-back-racing-again

[the galah]

Well i think it is fair to say someone is feeding them information. Maybe also a lot of what they know comes from attending court. How are those court cases going? Has anyone been caught up in further charges unrelated to race fixing,as a result of information uncovered in inca. If so,do they currently have suppression orders the press know about.

Harness racing followers need to take their focus away from how the message is being delivered,and focus on the actual message.

So many people have been deceived  by those who have been written about.

Don't we all want that to stop.

I'm not just talking about punters.

heres one example.

Whats the aussie who bought Smokin By from m kerr thinking. He bought a 7 win horse from 23 starts,that was good enough to start in the nz cup.

He pays good money for it,takes it to aussie,only to find it immediately is not competitive, even when it drops back in grades. So he sells it cheap. 

Now that fella must feel totally ripped off when he learns about what is being said about the kerr stable.

And here"s another thing i will say. We have people like M geurin criticising the mainstream media,yet he feeds us misinformation. I trust the press reporters over what he has to say when he starts talking about certain personalities. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by the galah