Von Beynon strikes again with B. Orange story

[MarkyMark]

18 minutes ago, Brodie said:

No,  but Blair Orange at 120mcg is not going to be any problem to other drivers on the track!

Yes he tested over the 100mcg by 20mcg which is buggerall and here some are thinking that he was going to be a menace on the track!!!!

I could give you a long list of drivers that should not even be out on the track driving even totally sober!

 

that is your opinion you can not back this up with fact. 

he may not have been overly impaired with alcohol, but what about his state of mind, the fact he may not have had a lot of sleep.

perhaps he was not intoxicated, but could his judgement as a result of drinking been impaired, his timing, his ability to rigorously drive a horse if needed, his ability to make a split decision mid race, could he have been more tired than normal and perhaps be a percentage less to his peak when driving.  

if my auntie had balls she could be my uncle shit

stick to facts, its undisputable. not defend with opinions and what you think, it has no merit or substance.

FFS its a professional sport, with one of our leading drivers.  He should have known better.

im an orange fan, but he quite rightly was not permitted to the track

[Blossom lady]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Oh right because I guess INCA is in the Spitfire league.  Lots of starts and no wins.

So are you purely speculating or have an "inside source" or are you relying on the something happens eventually strategy?

You’ll just have to wait and see. 
 

[Blossom lady]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

Could it be Long owner???.  with comments on this thread like "likely gypsy bottom feeder trainers who cannot drive or train...Jealous stichers are no good".  That could be the giveaway clear disdain of many within the industry you refer to?

No way that it would be Martin . Cummings that is not van beynan. 
martin always shows his colours as anything goes in harness racing and how dare you pick on my chosen trainer and drivers!

 

[Gammalite]

42 minutes ago, Brodie said:

How was Blair meant to know he was 120 mcg rather than the 100mcg limit?

it was so little over and is a pretty seasoned drinker, so wouldve thought he was fine!!

This comment is EXACTLY the problem Brodie . That is why we are arguing against him instead of FOR him (being unlucky, still able to drive better than all others , etc......) 

Anyway MARKYMARK has answered it PERFECTLY just now up above in a post regarding Professional Athletes and Sportsman.

Thank-you Marky Mark,!!!!!!!!!  you and Blossom and Galah  have summed it up so well , after I was going down the gurgler to the Chief too. .....

What do you think Brodster? It's Australia Day so time for a beer to celebrate !! (no drives tomorrow lol....)

 

[the galah]

57 minutes ago, Blossom lady said:

No way that it would be Martin . Cummings that is not van beynan. 
martin always shows his colours as anything goes in harness racing and how dare you pick on my chosen trainer and drivers!

 

I agree,i  just put it out there, as the way he has expressed his view of others is similar to the characteristics of those he says he dislikes. I think he needs a bit of self reflection.

Also,as i have inferred earlier. I don't know why some are making excuses for Butt and Orange,when butt and orange  themselves will not look for excuses,and  you would think will take full responsibility.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, MarkyMark said:

that is your opinion you can not back this up with fact. 

he may not have been overly impaired with alcohol, but what about his state of mind, the fact he may not have had a lot of sleep.

perhaps he was not intoxicated, but could his judgement as a result of drinking been impaired, his timing, his ability to rigorously drive a horse if needed, his ability to make a split decision mid race, could he have been more tired than normal and perhaps be a percentage less to his peak when driving.  

if my auntie had balls she could be my uncle shit

stick to facts, its undisputable. not defend with opinions and what you think, it has no merit or substance.

FFS its a professional sport, with one of our leading drivers.  He should have known better.

im an orange fan, but he quite rightly was not permitted to the track

Marky, you are being pretty dumb if you think that Blair Orange the best driver in NZ would be impaired due to having a breath alcohol reading of 120 mcg!!!!!

As I have said previojsly by the time  he drove it would be ZILCH!!
If I was the  RIU, I would be far more worried about the nil drivers that they allow to jump into the cart each week, than Blair who  was slightly over a very low limit!

You stated he could be tired, maybe he was and maybe some of the other drivers were also tired but are they tested by a sleepometer?

Anyway it has happened and nothing we can say is going to affect the result!

It is pretty obvious that some harness participants are being targeted, due to previous dealings

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Marky, you are being pretty dumb if you think that Blair Orange the best driver in NZ would be impaired due to having a breath alcohol reading of 120 mcg!!!!!

As I have said previojsly by the time  he drove it would be ZILCH!!

Geez Brodie , You miss the point in your rush to defend Blair O who Broke a Rule in place for the benefit of everyone.

You already asked how is he spose to know whether he's 100 or 120 or whatever.

That is in effect the actual problem. The answer is glaringly Obvious. 

And how the hell do you know Blair Orange alcohol metabolism rate.???? When was his last drink?? Why did he present over the limit at the track? At what rate per hour does it clear from your system Dr Brodie.>>> 

ZILCH by the time he drives you say ????  You're ZILCH CHANCE of knowing that, so is a rubbish statement.

Are you being dumb? , just like Blair , to prepare to drive with that silly arguement. "Gee I hope i'm ok by race 1"

MarkyMark gave an excellent post on what should be the professional approach by sportspeople and what is expected of them , etc . You should go back and read it. 

[MarkyMark]

5 hours ago, Brodie said:

Marky, you are being pretty dumb if you think that Blair Orange the best driver in NZ would be impaired due to having a breath alcohol reading of 120 mcg!!!!!

As I have said previojsly by the time  he drove it would be ZILCH!!
If I was the  RIU, I would be far more worried about the nil drivers that they allow to jump into the cart each week, than Blair who  was slightly over a very low limit!

You stated he could be tired, maybe he was and maybe some of the other drivers were also tired but are they tested by a sleepometer?

Anyway it has happened and nothing we can say is going to affect the result!

It is pretty obvious that some harness participants are being targeted, due to previous dealings

actually, i think your reply here is extraordinarily dumb.

how do you know his level of impairment is not compromised . you do not know how it impacted him, you can not back this up with any fact or evidence to say it did not in anyway impair him regardless of reading. We do know for a fact is that Alcohol impairs people.  It affects their ability to make quick decisions, and it affects your ability to think as quickly compared to some, and to be safe.  It is absolutely proven alcohol, across various degrees of limits above zero.  Please FFS dont make me have to come back and go down the scientific route, or send you information of the effects of alcohol, i hope you are atleast mildly smart enough to agree with that.

Im not trying to come across as a know all.  Just theres no 2 ways about it.  Regardless of the limit, or how much alcohol one consumes, it has the ability to impair your judgement. Simple. and that is a risk in a race setting.

and with your logic, harness already has a reputation for cheats on seats, you want the next line to be piss heads on seats? FFS is this not meant to be a professional sport?

and ofcourse they are being targeted. No different to any professional sport.  If you are known to have past indiscretions, in any sport, you are more prone to being checked/targeted.  That is no different to anywere else and absolutely makes sense.

your quote, You stated he could be tired, maybe he was and maybe some of the other drivers were also tired but are they tested by a sleepometer?

this was mentioned as a side effect to the drinking.  Naturally after a night on the piss, and the body sobering up, for most people, they would be a little more tired than usual, ad ofcourse could possibly hinder his ability to drive.  If you read my reply it was one of a few examples as to how his ability to drive on that day could be compromised via his actions.

think about it brodie.

 

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, Blossom lady said:

You’ll just have to wait and see. 
 

Ok the "something always happens".  

[Brodie]

6 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Geez Brodie , You miss the point in your rush to defend Blair O who Broke a Rule in place for the benefit of everyone.

You already asked how is he spose to know whether he's 100 or 120 or whatever.

That is in effect the actual problem. The answer is glaringly Obvious. 

And how the hell do you know Blair Orange alcohol metabolism rate.???? When was his last drink?? Why did he present over the limit at the track? At what rate per hour does it clear from your system Dr Brodie.>>> 

ZILCH by the time he drives you say ????  You're ZILCH CHANCE of knowing that, so is a rubbish statement.

Are you being dumb? , just like Blair , to prepare to drive with that silly arguement. "Gee I hope i'm ok by race 1"

MarkyMark gave an excellent post on what should be the professional approach by sportspeople and what is expected of them , etc . You should go back and read it. 

Going around in circles Gamma, now!

I reiterate, I do not support drunk harness drivers on the track!
I have no idea what Bob’s reading was!

If Blairs reading was higher than 120mcg then yes I would have issues with him being out on the track, although if anyone was able to handle it, it would be Blair!

Point is that 120mcg if that is  what the reading was,  is extremely marginal if you think that it would impair a driver of the ability kf Blair Orange!

When has Blair Orange caused any accidents in his thousands of drives, and yet you are saying that having alcohol in his system as low as 120mcg is putting other drivers at risk?

I suggest the RIU should in fact be coming down on the drivers who lack the competency to be out on the track, totally sober!!!!!!

Anyway, agree to disagree Gamma, which is just fine!

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, MarkyMark said:

actually, i think your reply here is extraordinarily dumb.

how do you know his level of impairment is not compromised . you do not know how it impacted him, you can not back this up with any fact or evidence to say it did not in anyway impair him regardless of reading. We do know for a fact is that Alcohol impairs people.  It affects their ability to make quick decisions, and it affects your ability to think as quickly compared to some, and to be safe.  It is absolutely proven alcohol, across various degrees of limits above zero.  Please FFS dont make me have to come back and go down the scientific route, or send you information of the effects of alcohol, i hope you are atleast mildly smart enough to agree with that.

Im not trying to come across as a know all.  Just theres no 2 ways about it.  Regardless of the limit, or how much alcohol one consumes, it has the ability to impair your judgement. Simple. and that is a risk in a race setting.

and with your logic, harness already has a reputation for cheats on seats, you want the next line to be piss heads on seats? FFS is this not meant to be a professional sport?

and ofcourse they are being targeted. No different to any professional sport.  If you are known to have past indiscretions, in any sport, you are more prone to being checked/targeted.  That is no different to anywere else and absolutely makes sense.

your quote, You stated he could be tired, maybe he was and maybe some of the other drivers were also tired but are they tested by a sleepometer?

this was mentioned as a side effect to the drinking.  Naturally after a night on the piss, and the body sobering up, for most people, they would be a little more tired than usual, ad ofcourse could possibly hinder his ability to drive.  If you read my reply it was one of a few examples as to how his ability to drive on that day could be compromised via his actions.

think about it brodie.

 

Marky, I have though about it!

What I would say is that if you have an alcohol reading of 120mcg and it affects your ability to make decisions that are compromised, I would respectfully suggest that they stay in bed all day!

 

[hunterthepunter]

Blair has nice book of drives at forbury GO BLAIR 

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Going around in circles Gamma, now!

Yeah true, It's getting like a harness race.  I guess it was such a serious incident, (more than a Spitfire gallop lol) and your leading driver's reputation is now in tatters (especially dumb second time around), and didn't want you going down that path condoning that behaviour leaving your reputation in tatters as well.

Afterall , THE VERY BEST must lead by Example .....hahahaha

[Chief Stipe]

56 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

your leading driver's reputation is now in tatters

So you are not going to include Blair Orange in your betting selections as much now?

[Gammalite]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So you are not going to include Blair Orange in your betting selections as much now?

Haha very good lol ! Won't be able to Chief, for a while, as he got 5 meetings suspension last time in 2016 , How many does he get this time? I'll just have to await his return for a bet !! lol.....

Don't think his overall driving ability is in question at all . MarkyMark covered many aspects that were in question.

Did you agree with them? (on previous page regarding professional sportspeople)

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Did you agree with them? (on previous page regarding professional sportspeople)

No I don't agree with them.  I don't agree with expecting a higher standard from our sportspeople than we do from ourselves.  Nor should they be subject to rules that are out of line with laws that the rest of us operate e.g. the alcohol limits.

LOL remember Shane Warne and David Boon?

Differences in standards does the very thing it is supposed to avoid - by highlighting exceptions it actually lowers the perceived integrity of a sport NOT enhance it.  

I find the Integrity "we need to beyond reproach" argument an anachronism from the past where racing was only for the gentry and anyone deemed on "unsavoury character" was excluded.  

I liken it to the whip rules - there is a perceived threat to the sports future.  No consideration is given to the fact that the threat emanates from a small group who are anti-racing fullstop.  So we create whip rules that are impractical and difficult to enforce.  What happens?  When inevitably someone breaks the rules because they are difficult not to we focus attention on ourselves.  Classic home goal, shot in the foot stuff!

[Jonny Longshot]

Where are you getting 120 from?

[Gammalite]

27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

No I don't agree with them.  I don't agree with expecting a higher standard from our sportspeople than we do from ourselves.  Nor should they be subject to rules that are out of line with laws that the rest of us operate e.g. the alcohol limits.

Well whether you expect it or not , Professional Sportspeople Have to set a higher standard.

They are Paid to Do just That Chief. (plus they become role models whether they want to be or not)

Warnie and Boony a great example, as we laugh hard out loud at their Exploits , but you can BE SURE and certain that Cricket Australia everyday sits all the players down and says either 'Don't do what Warnie and Boony did""  or "This is what is expected of you .......blah blah...."    

And of course minor Safety issues will come in to it as well regarding alcohol limits, as in any job. 

Not having alcohol in your system Match day (or even training day) is SURE to be a major Priority for most Professional sporting organisations.

Harness Racing Integrity is 'doomed', if our fine Horsemen can't Set the HIGH STANDARD MarkyMark mentioned.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Well whether you expect it or not , Professional Sportspeople Have to set a higher standard.

You say "HAVE TO" but you don't given any reason for "WHY"!

6 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

They are Paid to Do just That Chief. (plus they become role models whether they want to be or not)

I would suggest that the issue is because that anything remotely salacious sells magazines, newspapers and online clicks.  Not only that the snitches get paid well for being "informants".  Who cares if Aaron Smith (All Black Half-back) shagged someone in the departure lounge disabled toilet?  From my perspective I think "lucky bastard".  The reality is someone snitched on him to the media.  If it had been me no-one would have been interested.  Morality or societal standards don't change just because you put on a Jersey.

My role models were the likes of Winston Churchill, Captain Cook...  Winston was perennially pissed.  Captain Cook is now being cancelled because of some injustice to indigenous peoples (indigenous = those who invaded first).

16 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Not having alcohol in your system Match day (or even training day) is SURE to be a major Priority for most Professional sporting organisations.

 For some.  But if you are an athlete there are other reasons why you wouldn't go on the piss the night before.  Since Warnie and Boonie science has shown that it impedes your performance at the elite level.  Makes you wonder how good those who played cricket actually were. 

[Gammalite]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You say "HAVE TO" but you don't given any reason for "WHY"!

I did Chief, my very next sentence I said Why >>>> . Because they are PAID to do so, and they are role models.

A true professional would 1. Follow the Rules, 2. Do his best to provide 100% service to paying clients, and 3. Always be 100% considerate of all his fellow competitors regarding safety. (before even mentioning Integrity)

Even a slightly ' jaded ' bowler in the cricket nets, could course a nasty incident , if not 100%? 

That professional bowler is not paid to go in at 99%, ( a horse race IMO being 100% is just as important !!!!  ) 

The Role model factor important too. (e.g The tennis wankers abusing everyone like Kyrgios need evicting)

In horse racing You can't have the young (or old) drivers, jockeys all thinking "Blair or CJ were partying hard last night ! and then rode Sunday" "We can do that next weekend at Blahs 21st Sat night then!!"  

Unfortunately these guys / girls are in these sports so HAVE TO set a higher standard than you or I.

 

 

[Basil]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I find the Integrity "we need to beyond reproach" argument an anachronism from the past where racing was only for the gentry and anyone deemed on "unsavoury character" was excluded.  

I liken it to the whip rules - there is a perceived threat to the sports future.  No consideration is given to the fact that the threat emanates from a small group who are anti-racing fullstop.  So we create whip rules that are impractical and difficult to enforce.  What happens?  When inevitably someone breaks the rules because they are difficult not to we focus attention on ourselves.  Classic home goal, shot in the foot stuff!

Crikey, have I got this right? You think that:

• whip rules should not be enforced because drivers find them "difficult"

• alcohol limits for drivers are dumb and should not be enforced (unless the drivers in question are absolutely blotto)

• "integrity" is something racing doesn't need to be concerned about

• but the TAB offering a single exclusive deal to a big punting group is the end of western civilisation as we know it!

Which is a collection of views you're perfectly entitled to hold, but one that, imho, vividly illustrates why racing is a sunset industry.

[Rangatira]

On 26/01/2021 at 10:39 AM, Richie said:

Although I tend to agree with you,You are only guessing that Brodie,how do you know how Blair drives with a 120mcg reading.

 

he doesn't he is being creative again

[Brodie]

30 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

he doesn't he is being creative again

FFS Ranga, Blair could drive with a helluva lot higher reading and still be way better than most drivers out there!

[the galah]

One thing that i don't think has been mentioned which i can't work out. If all the people at the party were mates,how come they let someone who is a mate partake to the extent they are over the limit for race driving the next day?

Edited January 27, 2021 by the galah

[Rangatira]

46 minutes ago, Brodie said:

FFS Ranga, Blair could drive with a helluva lot higher reading and still be way better than most drivers out there!

and the rules permit this ?