List of the number of drug positives in Harness Racing in the last 10 years.

[Gammalite]

1 minute ago, hunterthepunter said:

why did they stop training when testing come in? and go work for Riu?

Who are these three trainers Hunter? 

A thousand stables were 'milkshaking ' in the nineties , gallop and trot, and until the limits and testing was refined to be accurate and LIMITS set, many horses were winning with a good 'guzzle' all over NZ and Oz.

without it , many trainers 'Gave up ' and quite a few just went and did something else, (all six leading stables in QLD were affected at the time, when Milkshakes were out-ruled) those that persisted ??  were caught and disqualified.

Even to this very day , you will find the odd disqualification each month or two with a elevated CO2 . fools. 

[hunterthepunter]

2 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Who are these three trainers Hunter? 

A thousand stables were 'milkshaking ' in the nineties , gallop and trot, and until the limits and testing was refined to be accurate and LIMITS set, many horses were winning with a good 'guzzle' all over NZ and Oz.

without it , many trainers 'Gave up ' and quite a few just went and did something else, (all six leading stables in QLD were affected at the time, when Milkshakes were out-ruled) those that persisted ??  were caught and disqualified.

Even to this very day , you will find the odd disqualification each month or two with a elevated CO2 . fools. 

not name dropper . last year a guy in your country got caught using viagra told the stewards his horse was going to stick it to them

[Gammalite]

4 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

not name dropper . last year a guy in your country got caught using viagra told the stewards his horse was going to stick it to them

Yeah I know what you mean. I'm very reluctant to use names myself , UNLESS convicted so are proven guilty. 

Many trainers 'retired' in QLD rather than get caught, some like S HUNTER , and A Donahue continued to cheat , and were caught and disqualified (on more than one occasion). 

Hey this thread has suddenly made me work out why everyone in world thinks harness racing is 

'Cheats on Seats '   OMG !!!!!!!!!

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, hunterthepunter said:

sheep are injected with cobalt b12 are they doped?

only if presented on course

[Gammalite]

39 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

only if presented on course

Could Inca become involved and penalise these sheep to get results?

[Rangatira]

7 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Could Inca become involved and penalise these sheep to get results?

national organised crime group unlikely to want a baaaa of it

[Richie]

5 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Cobalt is a very 'tricky' one , and very current , some Disqualified , some not (esp Thoroughbred)

I can't say any of this List by Noodlum are mistakes . The horses are given something 'deliberately' as a way of making them feel good, look good, go good.........  (and be near winning all going well)

whether feed, inject or tube drench the trainer should know EVERYTHING that is going into that horse. It is his/her responsibility to KNOW the LIMITS>

personally I think a few of the positives are 'Internal Sabotage' from disgruntled staff , at larger operations. Waller has had problems with this, with large amounts of staff. He also had 4 horses disqualified for Positives from contaminated feed. (the feed company was blamed for the error??????) and he got off.

Why doesn't everyone just say that then ? 

Waller proved the feed was contaminated,not a legitimate excuse unless you can.prove it

[Gammalite]

7 minutes ago, Richie said:

Waller proved the feed was contaminated,not a legitimate excuse unless you can.prove it

Yes, He got someone elses 'Order' apparently , from the great feed mixing company. that was lucky. (or unlucky)

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Gammalite said:

I can't say any of this List by Noodlum are mistakes . The horses are given something 'deliberately' as a way of making them feel good, look good, go good.........  (and be near winning all going well)

Some are definitely mistakes hence some leniency shown.  For example one of the Cobalt cases the amount of cobalt in the supplement was either mislabelled or was a factory mistake.  Not much a Trainer can do in those circumstances.

Cobalt is a legitimate feed additive particularly where there is soil deficiency.  It is also a part of the Vitamin B12 complex.  There are different types of Cobalt molecules.  The one that was thought to be used as a performance enhancing substance was Cobalt Chloride.  A salt given intravenously in large doses.

Now there is little or no evidence that the Cobalt does enhance performance but Cobalt Chloride is sure as hell toxic at high doses.

Because it occurs naturally in blood a threshold level has been set for testing.  It isn't and can't be a completely prohibited substance.

Unlike morphine or the synthetic equivalent Tramadol which don't occur naturally in blood.  Now morphine can be picked up from poppy seeds and pods from natural foraging.  There have been numerous examples of this occurring in all three codes both here and in Australia.  The fact is that the levels that the morphine has been detected at in tests is so minute that it has zero therapeutic effect on a horse.

Same with the positive Tramadol test.  

Environmental contamination is increasingly an issue particularly as the sensitivity of the tests are increasing exponentially.  In my opinion "zero tolerance" is a cop out and needs to be addressed.  If you get all the scientists and vets around the table and ask them what is an acceptable threshold level they would be unanimous in agreement that zero is no longer an option.  If it stays at zero then the punishment for what may be inadvertent administration (e.g. through contaminated feed) far out weighs the crime.  The recent thoroughbred case of Vamos Bebe is a classic example of this.

The mare has been disqualified with a loss of $32,000 in stake money and the removal of black type from its record.  All for a level of morphine that was detected that in no way offered any advantage therapeutically nor performance wise.  It is impossible to check every slab of hay or every inch of a paddock before cutting.  Don't be surprised if Trainers stop feeding their horses hay or even grazing their horses while they are in full race work.

[Gammalite]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Some are definitely mistakes hence some leniency shown.  For example one of the Cobalt cases the amount of cobalt in the supplement was either mislabelled or was a factory mistake.  Not much a Trainer can do in those circumstances.

Cobalt is a legitimate feed additive particularly where there is soil deficiency.  It is also a part of the Vitamin B12 complex.  There are different types of Cobalt molecules.  The one that was thought to be used as a performance enhancing substance was Cobalt Chloride.  A salt given intravenously in large doses.

Now there is little or no evidence that the Cobalt does enhance performance but Cobalt Chloride is sure as hell toxic at high doses.

Because it occurs naturally in blood a threshold level has been set for testing.  It isn't and can't be a completely prohibited substance.

Unlike morphine or the synthetic equivalent Tramadol which don't occur naturally in blood.  Now morphine can be picked up from poppy seeds and pods from natural foraging.  There have been numerous examples of this occurring in all three codes both here and in Australia.  The fact is that the levels that the morphine has been detected at in tests is so minute that it has zero therapeutic effect on a horse.

Same with the positive Tramadol test.  

Environmental contamination is increasingly an issue particularly as the sensitivity of the tests are increasing exponentially.  In my opinion "zero tolerance" is a cop out and needs to be addressed.  If you get all the scientists and vets around the table and ask them what is an acceptable threshold level they would be unanimous in agreement that zero is no longer an option.  If it stays at zero then the punishment for what may be inadvertent administration (e.g. through contaminated feed) far out weighs the crime.  The recent thoroughbred case of Vamos Bebe is a classic example of this.

The mare has been disqualified with a loss of $32,000 in stake money and the removal of black type from its record.  All for a level of morphine that was detected that in no way offered any advantage therapeutically nor performance wise.  It is impossible to check every slab of hay or every inch of a paddock before cutting.  Don't be surprised if Trainers stop feeding their horses hay or even grazing their horses while they are in full race work.

Yes , I have to retract that Chief, you are quite right and some of the cases you put on the thread from a lot of fine horsepeople would be mistakes and/or accidental administration. I know of one protracted saga involving a local Trainer Darrell Graham , who got a year from unknown source for Cobalt.

 

[Newmarket]

9 hours ago, Noodlum said:

Name:  JR Dunn & RJ Dunn
Date:  March 2018
Offence:  Rules 1004(1)(1A)(2)
Drug Identified:  Caffeine
Penalty:  Fine $14,000   Four Horses disqualified.

You should tell the whole story Noodles, how about this,

Trainers licence was suspended for 6 months in 1992 after he presented two horses with prohibitive substances. 
 

He was also fined $500 after another horse was found with elavated TC02 levels at the Westport Harness in 2004. 
 

Fined $3000 & his son $1500 for instructing employee craig smith to be in possesion of a prohibited substance, ketoprofen at Forbury, 2016. 
 

I am sure you could find more, but hey, as you will say, all mistakes 😆😆😆

[Gammalite]

8 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

You should tell the whole story Noodles, how about this,

Trainers licence was suspended for 6 months in 1992 after he presented two horses with prohibitive substances. 
 

He was also fined $500 after another horse was found with elavated TC02 levels at the Westport Harness in 2004. 
 

Fined $3000 & his son $1500 for instructing employee craig smith to be in possesion of a prohibited substance, ketoprofen at Forbury, 2016. 
 

I am sure you could find more, but hey, as you will say, all mistakes 😆😆😆

This thread is a lot worse than your 'good guys' thread yesterday in industry support. 

My nominations getting an honourable/ dishonourable mention.

I see Dalgety got a mention here today as well , so Gammalite has gone down like the Titanic with my Good guys nominations yesterday lol........ F for failed. sad. maybe the lovely Nat still a good guy after 5 Interdominion wins.

[the galah]

13 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

This thread is a lot worse than your 'good guys' thread yesterday in industry support. 

My nominations getting an honourable/ dishonourable mention.

I see Dalgety got a mention here today as well , so Gammalite has gone down like the Titanic with my Good guys nominations yesterday lol........ F for failed. sad. maybe the lovely Nat still a good guy after 5 Interdominion wins.

Dalgety also had a caffeine positive about 12 years ago. Said a bottle of itz magic was knocked over and contaminated feed. Still at least dalgety seems to take such incidents on the chin and moves on with bouncing back.

You like that natalie rasmussen don't you.

[Noodlum]

40 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

You should tell the whole story Noodles, how about this,

Trainers licence was suspended for 6 months in 1992 after he presented two horses with prohibitive substances. 
 

He was also fined $500 after another horse was found with elavated TC02 levels at the Westport Harness in 2004. 
 

Fined $3000 & his son $1500 for instructing employee craig smith to be in possesion of a prohibited substance, ketoprofen at Forbury, 2016. 
 

I am sure you could find more, but hey, as you will say, all mistakes 😆😆😆

I didn't say they were all mistakes.

I also said the last 10 years not going back nearly 30 years!  I'm sure Ben Hur probably had a positive as well.

The Forbury incident in 2016 was a charge under rule Rule 1004(5) - which is in possession of a prohibited substance on a racecourse on raceday.  It was to be used POST race.  NO POSITIVE WAS RETURNED!

Ketoprofen is a legitimate therapeutic treatment.

The Westport TCO2 test was 0.6 mg/l over the threshold i.e. it was 36.8 with the threshold being 36.2.  

Keep trying Newmarket.  The purpose of the exercise was to show that there doesn't seem to be a helluva lot of doping going on!

Edited March 2, 2021 by Noodlum

[Rangatira]

3 minutes ago, Noodlum said:

The Forbury incident in 2016 was a charge under rule Rule 1004(5) - which is in possession of a prohibited substance on a racecourse on raceday.  It was to be used POST race.  NO POSITIVE WAS RETURNED!

by a dunn trained horse

[Noodlum]

Just now, Rangatira said:

by a dunn trained horse

What's your point?

[Rangatira]

1 minute ago, Noodlum said:

What's your point?

was this the night melina lowe cossed the line in first place ?

[hunterthepunter]

1 minute ago, Rangatira said:

was this the night melina lowe cossed the line in first place ?

wrong your horse light and sound

[hunterthepunter]

14 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

You like that natalie rasmussen don't you.

could be on the money galah there 

[Noodlum]

3 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

was this the night melina lowe cossed the line in first place ?

My apologies I didn't read the full report.  Yes Melina Lowe returned a positive to Ketoprofen.

However as with a number of Ketoprofen positives one could argue it was a mistake in withholding periods. 

FFS why administer a prohibited substance which is easily detectable?

Using Ketoprofen ISNT PROHIBITED as a therapeutic.

[Rangatira]

3 minutes ago, Noodlum said:

However as with a number of Ketoprofen positives one could argue it was a mistake in withholding periods.

surely not in this case though, well at least not by the registered trainer

Name:  K N Larsen
Date:  January 2017
Offence:  Rules 1004(1A)
Drug Identified:  Ketoprofen
Penalty:  Fine $250

[Noodlum]

5 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

surely not in this case though, well at least not by the registered trainer

Name:  K N Larsen
Date:  January 2017
Offence:  Rules 1004(1A)
Drug Identified:  Ketoprofen
Penalty:  Fine $250

Ok I get what you and Newmarket are on about now.  The inference is that another stables employee nobbled another's horse with Ketoprofen.

That isn't within the criteria of this exercise.

To reiterate there is little evidence from positive tests that there is widespread horse doping occurring in the harness racing industry.

3 cases a year the vast majority of which are mistakes doesn't constitute widespread fraud from my point of view.

But you guys keep bagging the industry you supposedly support.

[hunterthepunter]

2 minutes ago, Noodlum said:

 The inference is that another stables employee nobbled another's horse 

nasty female 

[Rangatira]

6 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

nasty female 

you are on a different page boss

[hunterthepunter]

Just now, Rangatira said:

you are on a different page boss

im on the money thoooo