Ellerslie Hill Gone

[All The Aces]

 

Ellerslie Hill is definitely to be sold.  

 

[Freda]

Ah well .

The slope to the end of jumping in NZ just got steeper. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Freda

[mumbles]

Maybe they  can turn the unused Waipa track into a jumping hub or turn back time and purchase Paeroa.

 

[Freda]

Paeroa would have been a reasonable option at one time..but the moment has gone now.

[nomates]

History , what history . They can justify it any way they want , and they will , but it is just more diluting of NZ racing . But it is fair enough they don't use it nearly as much as they used to do they , closing down in winter can't help tho can it .

All part of a big plan . I hope there is enough participants left when they get around to revealing it .

[mumbles]

35 minutes ago, Freda said:

Paeroa would have been a reasonable option at one time..but the moment has gone now.

No vision.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, nomates said:

History , what history . They can justify it any way they want , and they will , but it is just more diluting of NZ racing . But it is fair enough they don't use it nearly as much as they used to do they , closing down in winter can't help tho can it .

All part of a big plan . I hope there is enough participants left when they get around to revealing it .

Very true, you can't save the industry by cannibalizing it, you also dont need expensive leadership in place whose only solution is to do just that. I've said for many years the nim wits leading us believe selling us all up will last forever and save the sport, it will do anything but.

Better use of assets and planning would give us a chance, this wont.

[nomates]

The ARC has been the NZ racing industry's leader for many years and has run very successful carnivals , and trying to improve on what you have achieved is always the goal , what they have done to themselves and in consequence to other clubs , some not far removed from the ARC status , has become an absolute shambles .

You only have a look at this weekend , they are running the Easter Hcp , no they are not they are running a race masquerading as the Easter . A once iconic race has been butchered . They are 3 weeks late , what was the point , i don't get it , what are they trying to achieve , were the figures from running that ICONIC easter weekend meeting that disasterous , are their figures that much better for having the race 3 weeks later . 

I don't get it , certainly try and improve your product , but this is no improvement , it's shambolic .

They have removed the Queens Birthday meeting , their KM meeting has completely Fucked the ICONIC WRC cup meeting , the move of their own cup/derby meeting , the xmas / new year meeting is a shadow of it's old self , and although i think the Derby is in the right place now the rest just seems ho hum .Then they don't race for 3/4 months , what is that about . Your biggest club , in your biggest city and they shut down for 3/4 months , how is that what is best for the industry , Jesus , Mary and Christ you couldn't make this shit up . Good luck guys , we're going on holiday , see you when we get back .

And if i'm wrong i stand to be corrected but i'm sure the man to start the " change for the better" was the one and only Cameron George , the man who made the RIU what it is today , and has now made it all the way to chair person of the NZTR board . We should be afraid , very afraid .

 

[Huey]

47 minutes ago, nomates said:

The ARC has been the NZ racing industry's leader for many years and has run very successful carnivals , and trying to improve on what you have achieved is always the goal , what they have done to themselves and in consequence to other clubs , some not far removed from the ARC status , has become an absolute shambles .

You only have a look at this weekend , they are running the Easter Hcp , no they are not they are running a race masquerading as the Easter . A once iconic race has been butchered . They are 3 weeks late , what was the point , i don't get it , what are they trying to achieve , were the figures from running that ICONIC easter weekend meeting that disasterous , are their figures that much better for having the race 3 weeks later . 

I don't get it , certainly try and improve your product , but this is no improvement , it's shambolic .

They have removed the Queens Birthday meeting , their KM meeting has completely Fucked the ICONIC WRC cup meeting , the move of their own cup/derby meeting , the xmas / new year meeting is a shadow of it's old self , and although i think the Derby is in the right place now the rest just seems ho hum .Then they don't race for 3/4 months , what is that about . Your biggest club , in your biggest city and they shut down for 3/4 months , how is that what is best for the industry , Jesus , Mary and Christ you couldn't make this shit up . Good luck guys , we're going on holiday , see you when we get back .

And if i'm wrong i stand to be corrected but i'm sure the man to start the " change for the better" was the one and only Cameron George , the man who made the RIU what it is today , and has now made it all the way to chair person of the NZTR board . We should be afraid , very afraid .

 

Im not afraid, im convinced the sport has no hope in this country as we will all find out in the next 2 years,its kaput and heading no where.  Ellerslies greater than thou attitude is evident at NZTR, several stables & studs and amongst many participants in the sport.

Beside what you have said above ,the entire sport has become boring and irrelevant in this country , not only has it lost interest for the common man but also amongst many of its hardcore participants who are continuously let down by leadership and poor decision making.

It appears to me Ellerslie are only setting up for the inevitable.

[Chief Stipe]

Yep part of my racing soul was cut out when Westland Racing Club was forced to close Hokitika to prop up a shit hole called Kumara that doesn't have a resident committee and a population of about 200 people!

I get distressed when I see the shyte tracks that are being produced at our "Premier" locations (Te Rapa despite its recent renovations wasn't that great at the weekend) and prominent trainers say they are "great"!

I find myself looking more and more to the racing coming from OZ metrop meeting's on a Saturday.  Hell even the racing from the OZ country tracks is better than some of the poor quality fields we see.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

Im not afraid, im convinced the sport has no hope in this country as we will all find out in the next 2 years,its kaput and heading no where.  Ellerslies greater than thou attitude is evident at NZTR, several stables & studs and amongst many participants in the sport.

Beside what you have said above ,the entire sport has become boring and irrelevant in this country , not only has it lost interest for the common man but also amongst many of its hardcore participants who are continuously let down by leadership and poor decision making.

It appears to me Ellerslie are only setting up for the inevitable.

I agree around that there is no future here in the form that we would like to see , as for the time frame i don't know . As much as we all would like to see a plan but haven't i'm sure there is something they're working on outside of what we can already make out , a cunning plan you might say . Can see us ending up as a bit of a homoginized product , a bit like Singy , purely about the betting , where all the things i know i love about it , the horses , the people , the theatre of the sport are dumbed down to dollars and cents .

I don't know if you follow English football , but today's announcment about a super league is all about the money . The clubs that sign up , of which 6 in England have , will each recieve 5.8 bil just for signing up . It's vomit inducing , all about the bucks , the beautiful game of football is lost in the flood of money . It was already half way there but this is just about pure greed .

I can see us going the same way , all about an elite few getting plenty whilst the great sport is lost in the avalanch .

[Freda]

On 19/04/2021 at 7:31 PM, nomates said:

I agree around that there is no future here in the form that we would like to see , as for the time frame i don't know . As much as we all would like to see a plan but haven't i'm sure there is something they're working on outside of what we can already make out , a cunning plan you might say . Can see us ending up as a bit of a homoginized product , a bit like Singy , purely about the betting , where all the things i know i love about it , the horses , the people , the theatre of the sport are dumbed down to dollars and cents .

I don't know if you follow English football , but today's announcment about a super league is all about the money . The clubs that sign up , of which 6 in England have , will each recieve 5.8 bil just for signing up . It's vomit inducing , all about the bucks , the beautiful game of football is lost in the flood of money . It was already half way there but this is just about pure greed .

I can see us going the same way , all about an elite few getting plenty whilst the great sport is lost in the avalanch .

At least the fans have spoken loud and clear about the ' Super League '  which will now not go ahead, by all accounts.

But your observation about the homogenised structure that appears to be our future is getting closer by the week.

I have a mate who spent the last eleven years in Perth.  Used to race a horse with me, we had fun, and a modicum of success.  Her modestly-bred little gelding won four in his first prep - despite a few 'top' jockeys wrinkling their nose at his nondescript appearance and pedigree.  But he tried like hell.

She recently returned to NZ for family reasons, and was horrified at what the racing industry, remembered so fondly, has become.   No fun, she said.  All the Hitlers on the gates trying to stop people getting in, over there you are welcomed.  The racing is great, the social aspect is great, the provincial meetings are friendly and inviting, the bush meetings - even the red dirt ones - are still worth turning up to, with family stuff to do, races for the local kids, everyone joins in.    She used to come to the Coast races with us, had a blast;  a particular fond memory was of hiking along a partly-flooded railway line at Omoto to the stable area to get the horses out before the Grey River did.  Jamie Bates standing in his underwear, in a horse truck, holding on to several horses dragged out of flooded yards, Bevan Laming [ at the trotting park ]  swimming horses from the stabling there up to the top of the grandstand, one by one, using his sprinter Crescent who was a very proficient swimmer.

Nothing like that now...just a bunch of pen pushers steadily shagging the game.    BTW she is off back to Perth as soon as possible.  Won't return.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

At least the fans have spoken loud and clear about the ' Super League '  which will now not go ahead, by all accounts.

But your observation about the homogenised structure that appears to be our future is getting closer by the week.

I have a mate who spent the last eleven years in Perth.  Used to race a horse with me, we had fun, and a modicum of success.  Her modestly-bred little gelding won four in his first prep - despite a few 'top' jockeys wrinkling their nose at his nondescript appearance and pedigree.  But he tried like hell.

She recently returned to NZ for family reasons, and was horrified at what the racing industry, remembered so fondly, has become.   No fun, she said.  All the Hitlers on the gates trying to stop people getting in, over there you are welcomed.  The racing is great, the social aspect is great, the provincial meetings are friendly and inviting, the bush meetings - even the red dirt ones - are still worth turning up to, with family stuff to do, races for the local kids, everyone joins in.    She used to come to the Coast races with us, had a blast;  a particular fond memory was of hiking along a partly-flooded railway line at Omoto to the stable area to get the horses out before the Grey River did.  Jamie Bates standing in his underwear, in a horse truck, holding on to several horses dragged out of flooded yards, Bevan Laming [ at the trotting park ]  swimming horses from the stabling there up to the top of the grandstand, one by one, using his sprinter Crescent who was a very proficient swimmer.

Nothing like that now...just a bunch of pen pushers steadily shagging the game.    BTW she is off back to Perth as soon as possible.  Won't return.

Indeed the character has been removed from the sport on all fronts & let's face it , it's become boring. I talked to participants who have been involved in the sport for years and they dont even know a single horse or where the races are on a Saturday anymore, that's a real worry that the hardcore have given up.

I think the kick in the guts the provincial circuit & race days got from the M report and Saundry silly ill thought out venue plan if you could call it a plan have suffocated the industry far more than those at the top would like to admit. 

It wont happen but like Freda suggested a revitalization of the provincial circuit and some of a base for the industry would assist in renewing interest,  but like I say wont happen.

[Chief Stipe]

Yep and it is going to get much more uninteresting very very shortly.

3 AWT's which are budgeted to run on average  a minimum of 15 race meetings each year over the winter months.  

So that's 3 times 15 = 45 race meetings.  Now going back to the 2019 NZTR annual report - (the last year that anything of substance was produced - notice how the NZRB and NZTR are producing LESS reporting information now?  Yes you should be suspicious!) - 311 meetings were held for that season.  

So 45/311 = 15%  - 15% of the seasons meetings will be run on 3 AWT tracks.  If they are all run over 3-4 months of the year that will mean up to THREE AWT meetings a week.  

Sorry but dirt racing (don't be conned into thinking that the Polyfill is special - it's just imported sand from Australia with some artificial wax and recycled carpet fibre garbage i.e. dirt) does not appeal to me at all.  I've seen enough of the dirt racing over the last couple of years from Korea, Japan and USA!!

THREE AWT RACE MEETINGS A WEEK!  What's more it will be largely the same horses races every week!

Today there are 11 Turf meetings in OZ and 1 dirt.  

Mmmm which one's will I be watching - Alice Springs, Moe, Gawler, Gosford, Kalgoorlie, Beaudesert, Kennsington, Pioneer Park, Pinjarra Park, Bathurst, Sunshine Coast or even the fantastic grass surface at Flemington!

What do we have today?  A low grade meeting from Awapuni which next year will be raced on dirt.  8 races with the following number of starters - 6, 6, 12, 4, 12, 13, 14, 11 - a total of 78 horses.

Tomorrow - a public holiday - did NZTR realise this?  One meeting at Avondale.  Good fields though.

OZ - 4 meetings (note not every State has made Monday a holiday because ANZAC falls on a Sunday).

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yep and it is going to get much more uninteresting very very shortly.

3 AWT's which are budgeted to run on average  a minimum of 15 race meetings each year over the winter months.  

So that's 3 times 15 = 45 race meetings.  Now going back to the 2019 NZTR annual report - (the last year that anything of substance was produced - notice how the NZRB and NZTR are producing LESS reporting information now?  Yes you should be suspicious!) - 311 meetings were held for that season.  

So 45/311 = 15%  - 15% of the seasons meetings will be run on 3 AWT tracks.  If they are all run over 3-4 months of the year that will mean up to THREE AWT meetings a week.  

Sorry but dirt racing (don't be conned into thinking that the Polyfill is special - it's just imported sand from Australia with some artificial wax and recycled carpet fibre garbage i.e. dirt) does not appeal to me at all.  I've seen enough of the dirt racing over the last couple of years from Korea, Japan and USA!!

THREE AWT RACE MEETINGS A WEEK!  What's more it will be largely the same horses races every week!

Today there are 11 Turf meetings in OZ and 1 dirt.  

Mmmm which one's will I be watching - Alice Springs, Moe, Gawler, Gosford, Kalgoorlie, Beaudesert, Kennsington, Pioneer Park, Pinjarra Park, Bathurst, Sunshine Coast or even the fantastic grass surface at Flemington!

What do we have today?  A low grade meeting from Awapuni which next year will be raced on dirt.  8 races with the following number of starters - 6, 6, 12, 4, 12, 13, 14, 11 - a total of 78 horses.

Tomorrow - a public holiday - did NZTR realise this?  One meeting at Avondale.  Good fields though.

OZ - 4 meetings (note not every State has made Monday a holiday because ANZAC falls on a Sunday).

Yep agree , I find the AWT racing totally unappealing,  I will not be wagering a single $ on it either, hopefully for racing sake many dont think like that.

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, Huey said:

Yep agree , I find the AWT racing totally unappealing,  I will not be wagering a single $ on it either, hopefully for racing sake many dont think like that.

Well there is a known aversion by punters to dirt tracks hence I assume one of the reasons Victorian Racing has limited to only two for the entire State.

I don't see any market advantage in the time difference between NZ and OZ.  Most people that I know that have a punt don't really get started until after lunch.  So if you are even slightly wary or adverse to dirt racing you are going to probably wait and see for a while and focus on Ozzie turf racing.  

Will the Ozzie market bet on our dirt races in greater numbers?  I doubt it.

The only theory that I can think of that might have some basis to it is that 3 meetings a week with the same group of horses will provide a consistent betting product that will be unique in the product range.  

[nomates]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The only theory that I can think of that might have some basis to it is that 3 meetings a week with the same group of horses will provide a consistent betting product that will be unique in the product range.  

My money is on , that by the end of winter they are going to get a fright at how small that group of horses are going to be . 

There is a reason we have agroup of horses that race in winter , they require at least a slow 9 to heavy 11+ , so how many of that group are even going to attempt racing on an A/W , maybe the odd conditioning run .

So now we are relying on mostly horses carrying on thru from Autumn and horses coming back in earlier than they would for spring racing . 

I think it could become embarrassing .

I want to be wrong but i just cannot see where the horses are coming from on a consistent basis .

And god forbid we start having injuries or worse .

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, nomates said:

My money is on , that by the end of winter they are going to get a fright at how small that group of horses are going to be . 

 

Well if it is any indication check out the field numbers from Davenport Synthetic in Tasmania today.

[nomates]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well if it is any indication check out the field numbers from Davenport Synthetic in Tasmania today.

And this is just the beginning of the their A/W season , Tasmania is very similar to us with wet winter tracks and wouldn't have the largest horse population so will be an interesting watch . 

If i could be bothered i would go back to last season and see what their numbers were like , might do it later .

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, nomates said:

And this is just the beginning of the their A/W season , Tasmania is very similar to us with wet winter tracks and wouldn't have the largest horse population so will be an interesting watch . 

If i could be bothered i would go back to last season and see what their numbers were like , might do it later .

But wouldn't Tasmania have a bigger horse population than the South Island or even the CD?

Information from the 2019 annual report.

[nomates]

9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But wouldn't Tasmania have a bigger horse population than the South Island or even the CD?

Exactly , but hey they know what they are doing . 

The one way they could stack it in their favour would be to offer very good starter incentives , i.e. $1000 per starter , that would force a few hands perhaps , but that becomes unfinancial .

This is all about turnover , and even if they are getting 10 horses per race is the turnover going to be there , the big question .

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, nomates said:

Exactly , but hey they know what they are doing . 

The one way they could stack it in their favour would be to offer very good starter incentives , i.e. $1000 per starter , that would force a few hands perhaps , but that becomes unfinancial .

This is all about turnover , and even if they are getting 10 horses per race is the turnover going to be there , the big question .

The program for today's Devonport meeting as advertised in their calendar.

[nomates]

29 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But wouldn't Tasmania have a bigger horse population than the South Island or even the CD?

 

Plus the SI's biggest trainer said he wouldn't have many if any runners on the A/W so the job has become much harder down there . 

I would suggest trainers from outlying tracks that are slated for closure aren't going to help NZTR's case for closing them by supporting the reason they are being closed .

[mikeynz]

2 hours ago, nomates said:

Plus the SI's biggest trainer said he wouldn't have many if any runners on the A/W so the job has become much harder down there . 

I would suggest trainers from outlying tracks that are slated for closure aren't going to help NZTR's case for closing them by supporting the reason they are being closed .

 

If the trainer says he will have few if any runners where will he be racing them?

[nomates]

23 minutes ago, mikeynz said:

 

If the trainer says he will have few if any runners where will he be racing them?

More than likely they will be too slow to race on a good surface , will require a rain affected track to be competitive , so wherever they run on the grass .