Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 4 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Harness Racing will receive $46.2m, $3.1m more than it did for the corresponding 12 months. Of that $3.1m, the majority ($2.7m) is budgeted for increased stakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 What is the $400k going to be spent on? Marketing the product? Or will Harness hire a Chief Operating Officer like NZTR have? Bear in mind this is budgeted (promised) revenue. For those of us with memories we have been promised budgeted stakes increases before but only to find that the turnover doesn't eventuate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: 6 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Harness Racing will receive $46.2m, $3.1m more than it did for the corresponding 12 months. Of that $3.1m, the majority ($2.7m) is budgeted for increased stakes. What would that mean for for stakes? Is there going to be just as many races as this season? There needs to be increased stakes as what they are generally makes it very difficult to turn any sort of profit! Going to be interesting! Edited July 28, 2021 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 Just now, Brodie said: Shat would that mean for for stakes? Is there going to be just as many races as this season? Going to be interesting! Well one question to ask is how is HRNZ going to market harness racing to prospective punters? How much will they spend? Another question is did HRNZ get their fair share of the promised increase in total funding to the racing industry? Or did one of the other codes benefit disproportionately more? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well one question to ask is how is HRNZ going to market harness racing to prospective punters? How much will they spend? Another question is did HRNZ get their fair share of the promised increase in total funding to the racing industry? Or did one of the other codes benefit disproportionately more? Harness might get the greyhounds disbursement before the end of the next season. In the paper today there was mention of 9 dogs no longer due to racing on the Wanganui, sorry WHHHHHanganui track! Ammo for our lovely caring Greenie unrealistic Chloe Swarbrick! Not good racing Greyhounds but fine to walk about STONED eh Chloe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, Brodie said: In the paper today there was mention of 9 dogs no longer due to racing on the Wanganui, sorry WHHHHHanganui track! Maybe the Greyhounds could ask for $10m to build a better AWT like the Thoroughbreds did? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) Have no idea why you mention me in your latest pop up. Just seen this latest missive of yours. I was widely criticised on here by you and others re my prediction/comments that Harness was in massive decline and Greys were going forward in terms of Ozzie revenue. The proof appears below. Read this Chief and then make something up because even though you were clearly wrong on this matter you would never admit it nor apologize to Flash From the Chair 29 July 2021 , News Industry Update from John Coulam, HRNZ Chair I am pleased to report that through Racing New Zealand a three year distribution agreement has been reached with the other codes that sees forecasted an additional $3.1 million due to harness for the 2021/2022 racing season. As a result, the Board of HRNZ last week approved the funding policy to clubs for next season. To enable clubs to complete their budgets for next season, they will have received communication on their funding. The great news is that clubs will see an improvement in stakes funding at the lower levels. In addition, group and feature races including country cups will be funded at 100% of their minimum level. Clubs will be expected to pay out 100% of the stakes provided across their season of racing, details of this are included in the club funding agreements. Clubs will have the ability to enhance stakes further through sponsorship and other locally generated revenue. What became very clear in reaching agreement on the distribution of the TAB profit is the gradual decline that our sport has been in for some years now, and just how poorly we as a code do in relation to profit on export compared to the other codes. In terms of the commission on export (off shore betting), which is paid out at 3% of the actual, up to the end of June, Thoroughbreds have received $4.6m, Greyhounds $4.5m and Harness $1.3m. It is clear that we have work to do in this area and the Board is working with an offshore partner to increase our exposure in Australia Well done to the Chair and Board of HRNZ, when you finally realise you have a problem the first thing to do is accept it and move asap to seek practical solutions. Start with Integrity matters and take it from there. IMO Edited August 4, 2021 by JJ Flash 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Have to say the HRNZ has to distribute the stakemoney as fairly as possible, to all still existing clubs. You still need Sponserships and Memberships (with some wealthy people involved) to make trotting clubs and race-days a GREAT PLACE to go ! People like Chris Garrard need looking after with-in the harness industry. Richard Brosnan , won at Melton Monday with a trotter. (first prize stake was just $2,200) Marburg meeting in QLD last Sunday each winner got only $1,500. not a great deal at all. But the connections COULD GET A WINNER> the critical element. Sure, you might need to win at least one race every 3 months , just to' break-even', because of the horse costs. BUT if you're winning people aren't thinking about that too much. just enjoying the wins !! NZ needs more races, that attracts more horses , that attracts more winners, That attracts more owners and interest from punters might even be possible. You won't attract punting activity on huge fields , standing starts , or poor quality. As long as people are WINNING regularly (owners and punters) they will continue to support the industry a little. (speaking for self and hopefully others) You need lots of Winners to keep owners and Punters happy !!!!!!! Smaller fields and more racing WOULD PROVIDE THIS . even if prizemoney is low. spread it thin if need be, to get these Winners!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Gammalite said: Have to say the HRNZ has to distribute the stakemoney as fairly as possible, to all still existing clubs. You still need Sponserships and Memberships (with some wealthy people involved) to make trotting clubs and race-days a GREAT PLACE to go ! People like Chris Garrard need looking after with-in the harness industry. Richard Brosnan , won at Melton Monday with a trotter. (first prize stake was just $2,200) Marburg meeting in QLD last Sunday each winner got only $1,500. not a great deal at all. But the connections COULD GET A WINNER> the critical element. Sure, you might need to win at least one race every 3 months , just to' break-even', because of the horse costs. BUT if you're winning people aren't thinking about that too much. just enjoying the wins !! NZ needs more races, that attracts more horses , that attracts more winners, That attracts more owners and interest from punters might even be possible. You won't attract punting activity on huge fields , standing starts , or poor quality. As long as people are WINNING regularly (owners and punters) they will continue to support the industry a little. (speaking for self and hopefully others) You need lots of Winners to keep owners and Punters happy !!!!!!! Smaller fields and more racing WOULD PROVIDE THIS . even if prizemoney is low. spread it thin if need be, to get these Winners!!!! If you had Marburg winning stakes of $1500 you would need to be winning at least monthly to break even in NZ! The TAB needs more punters not less and harness will continue to lose enthusiasts with their very poor business model! Attract the Punters not turn them away, there is so much potential but alas the NZ TAB just havent got the game plan to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Brodie said: If you had Marburg winning stakes of $1500 you would need to be winning at least monthly to break even in NZ! The TAB needs more punters not less and harness will continue to lose enthusiasts with their very poor business model! Attract the Punters not turn them away, there is so much potential but alas the NZ TAB just havent got the game plan to be successful. Yes that Marburg is for the 'show' horses or poor locals needing a win in that area. (you wouldn't see Dixon or Rasmussen there) More punters could be attracted with 'regular ' racing. Instead of Southland area, or Waikato area racing every second week for $10,000 races. For the same 'Available prizemoney,' They should race Every Week of Year for $5000 races. (more $dollars for feature races of course) THEN you end up with more winning horses, therefore more winning owners (likely to stay interested) and Punters likely to get some 'form' to follow . and then have a bet as a result ? It all becomes regular , just like going to work for normal workers day-in , day-out to pay your way . This is the case around Brisbane 5-6 days a week. weekly races are practically the horses 'fast-work' each week. There is one MASSIVE problem. You can't 'SET' horses for particular races . you're just playing for luck week to week, waiting your turn to draw well , and get the win. and just go round and round. Therefore when Feature Group Races come round to be run , BIG stables that can SET horses will clean up , as what happens with McCarthy and Allstar runners Every Year. they just win. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 5/08/2021 at 9:00 AM, JJ Flash said: Have no idea why you mention me in your latest pop up. Just seen this latest missive of yours. I was widely criticised on here by you and others re my prediction/comments that Harness was in massive decline and Greys were going forward in terms of Ozzie revenue. The proof appears below. Read this Chief and then make something up because even though you were clearly wrong on this matter you would never admit it nor apologize to Flash From the Chair 29 July 2021 , News Industry Update from John Coulam, HRNZ Chair I am pleased to report that through Racing New Zealand a three year distribution agreement has been reached with the other codes that sees forecasted an additional $3.1 million due to harness for the 2021/2022 racing season. As a result, the Board of HRNZ last week approved the funding policy to clubs for next season. To enable clubs to complete their budgets for next season, they will have received communication on their funding. The great news is that clubs will see an improvement in stakes funding at the lower levels. In addition, group and feature races including country cups will be funded at 100% of their minimum level. Clubs will be expected to pay out 100% of the stakes provided across their season of racing, details of this are included in the club funding agreements. Clubs will have the ability to enhance stakes further through sponsorship and other locally generated revenue. What became very clear in reaching agreement on the distribution of the TAB profit is the gradual decline that our sport has been in for some years now, and just how poorly we as a code do in relation to profit on export compared to the other codes. In terms of the commission on export (off shore betting), which is paid out at 3% of the actual, up to the end of June, Thoroughbreds have received $4.6m, Greyhounds $4.5m and Harness $1.3m. It is clear that we have work to do in this area and the Board is working with an offshore partner to increase our exposure in Australia Well done to the Chair and Board of HRNZ, when you finally realise you have a problem the first thing to do is accept it and move asap to seek practical solutions. Start with Integrity matters and take it from there. IMO Am I missing something in regards to Ozzies not betting into NZ harness racing?? I thought it was not possible to bet on NZ harness on your NZ account if you were in Of course there is a decline in betting on NZ harness as it makes sense to bet on fixed odds rather than the tote, and the Bookies do not want to take any reasonable sized bets unless you are a known losing punter!! What I know is that they are driving punters away 8n their droves and they are just not bothering to bet now. There are very few true punters that go oncourse nowadays and the reality is that harness racing is in dire straights if there is not new punters coming thru! This is the case and despite the BS re harness punting increasing being spun, it is in major distress and the TAB are not doing anything to improve things! Yes I am well aware I hark on about this continually, however it ks trying to get thru to the TAB that they really have a flawedBusiness Plan in place. Yes the yield on harness may well be up but the profit and turnover is going in the wrong direction. Any increase if there is any is due to Bonus Bets to losing punters!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Brodie said: Am I missing something in regards to Ozzies not betting into NZ harness racing?? I thought it was not possible to bet on NZ harness on your NZ account if you were in This is Ozzies punting on NZ races at their TAB's, As the figures i posted show the Ozzies are now spending less on NZ Harness and more on NZ Hounds and TB's for that matter . Income to the codes dont lie. As for your fav subject , obviously Ozzies Fixed odds makers dont want to take on punters either , might have something to do with woeful integrity issues in last few years. I mean and you know exactly what i mean but "its only a rort if your not involved". the days of snipers hitting the TAB are over in most instances and this is in all codes. You are not the only one restricted , its just that others are smarter at getting fixed Edited August 9, 2021 by JJ Flash 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Brodie said: There are very few true punters that go oncourse nowadays and the reality is that harness racing is in dire straights if there is not new punters coming thru! Poor governance and marketing for decades, its all coming home to roost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Brodie said: This is the case and despite the BS re harness punting increasing being spun, it is in major distress and the TAB are not doing anything to improve things! Yes I am well aware I hark on about this continually, however it ks trying to get thru to the TAB that they really have a flawedBusiness Plan in place. Given Harness has just got another 3.1 mio from RacingNZ then harness punting might be increasing or is just higher yield from losers As for NZTAB , they have proposed a record 170 mio to be distributed to the 3 codes so clearly the new operation's plan to increase distributions must be working and not flawed as you put it . I'm sure you and Chiefy will see it differently as is the case even when your plainly wrong Edited August 9, 2021 by JJ Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Given Harness has just got another 3.1 mio from RacingNZ then harness punting might be increasing or is just higher yield from losers As for NZTAB , they have proposed a record 170 mio to be distributed to the 3 codes so clearly the new operation's plan to increase distributions must be working and not flawed as you put it . I'm sure you and Chiefy will see it differently as is the case even when your plainly wrong Yes I see it differently JJ! There is no way in hell that there is more money being wagered on harness racing in NZ! When Matt Peden quotes $100 is a noteworthy bet on Trackside things are not flash! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: This is Ozzies punting on NZ races at their TAB's, As the figures i posted show the Ozzies are now spending less on NZ Harness and more on NZ Hounds and TB's for that matter . Income to the codes dont lie. As for your fav subject , obviously Ozzies Fixed odds makers dont want to take on punters either , might have something to do with woeful integrity issues in last few years. I mean and you know exactly what i mean but "its only a rort if your not involved". the days of snipers hitting the TAB are over in most instances and this is in all codes. You are not the only one restricted , its just that others are smarter at getting fixed I am well aware I am not the only restricted, I am in bat for all restricted punters! Whether others are smarter in your eyes is up to you JJ! Not worth the effort to make money nowadays when there is far easier ways to make money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Yes I see it differently JJ! There is no way in hell that there is more money being wagered on harness racing in NZ! I expected nothing less and fair enough . Logic suggests that for harness to get a greater distribution of $$ their is either {1} Increased betting on Harness in NZ {2} There is a greater yield from less betting or a combination of 1 and 2 or {3} GW did a brilliant job at RacingNZ board meeting to secure Harness distribution well beyond what HRNZ should have got at the expense of Hounds and TB's Edited August 9, 2021 by JJ Flash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, JJ Flash said: 3} GW did a brilliant job at RacingNZ board meeting to secure Harness distribution well beyond what HRNZ should have got at the expense of Hounds and TB's Explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Explain. Why- can you not comprehend Edited August 10, 2021 by JJ Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Why- can you not comprehend Give us some more detail on the following - or is it like a lot of what you post - Fake News! 3 hours ago, JJ Flash said: 3} GW did a brilliant job at RacingNZ board meeting to secure Harness distribution well beyond what HRNZ should have got at the expense of Hounds and TB's Or based on your prior comments regarding the distribution was the above supposed to written in sarcasm font? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Give us some more detail on the following - or is it like a lot of what you post - Fake News! Nothing fake except you and your replies to my posts . If you cant understand the context of the 3 options i gave to BRODIES question then you are thicker than i and others thought. Or maybe it just confirms what others have told me about you. Edited August 10, 2021 by JJ Flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 minute ago, JJ Flash said: Nothing fake except you and your replies to my posts . If you cant understand the context of the 3 options i gave to BRODIES question then you are thicker than i and others thought. Here we go - typical ad hominem response. So what you are saying is THAT WOODHAM DIDN'T NEGOTIATE WELL ENOUGH AT THE ROUND TABLE FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING therefore DIDN'T acquire more than Harness's fair share? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 8:14 AM, Chief Stipe said: Here we go - typical ad hominem response. So what you are saying is THAT WOODHAM DIDN'T NEGOTIATE WELL ENOUGH AT THE ROUND TABLE FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING therefore DIDN'T acquire more than Harness's fair share? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? I don't know if he is saying it or not But it would appear that that is the case, regardless of how well it's been spun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 16 hours ago, Michael said: I don't know if he is saying it or not So by @JJ Flash's standard of comprehension you and I are at the same level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewFitzgerald Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 On 10/08/2021 at 9:05 AM, Brodie said: There is no way in hell that there is more money being wagered on harness racing in NZ! It has increased. Plenty of examples of this, including a club i work with Nelson Harness Racing Club at their meeting in Jan 2021 did over 3million dollars turnover for their 2 day meeting. An increase of over 1 million dollars turnover. A significant effort on promotions and marketing had crowd numbers up and on course turnover up tens of thousands of dollars. Fixed Odds betting now equals about 52-54% of the total turnover. While tote pools are the remaining 46-48% of turnover. Add to that the fact that the % return the TAB are making on their Fixed Odds Harness Turnover has improved by a couple of % over the past 3years, which has resulted in a better return to the codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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