Congrats Bernard - another one bites the dust

[Doomed]

10 minutes ago, Mikie said:

I don’t remember Westport centralising there

i don’t remember Reefton centralising there

What Clubs centralised there?

I think he has got a bit confused. No other trotting clubs closed down and centralised at Greymouth. The galloping proposal was for several galloping clubs to all move to a new track, which in hindsight would have been a good idea. I doubt the offer, and funding, will be made again.

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, Mikie said:

I know full well where Greymouth’s Victoria Park was (and is) DB

But I can’t recall any Clubs centralising there

Can you tell me which Clubs centralised there?

What was one of the oldest Harness Racing Clubs in NZ?

However you may be missing the point - if Victoria Park Raceway couldn't survive (Mafia Mawhera Corporation aside) why would you expect a centralised Galloping venue would survive?

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The galloping proposal was for several galloping clubs to all move to a new track, which in hindsight would have been a good idea. I doubt the offer, and funding, will be made again.

Which centralisation effort in Thoroughbred Racing has turned out OK?

I have a theory that is a modified version of Einsteins maxim which was "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result" - my version is "if something isn't working then try the complete opposite".

So wouldn't it have been better for NZTR to support those small clubs than subsidise the big clubs?  Wouldn't it have been better for the small clubs to have got the true return from their endeavours than it being used to prop up the big clubs?  Instead we've closed down more and more interfaces with the community.  

We see the same thing happening now with the AWT's - moving from a low cost operating model to a high cost model in the face of declining revenue.  The classic example of this is Foxton - why close it down?  Why not allow race meetings to occur there?  It doesn't cost NZTR anymore to race there than it does on an AWT.

[Chief Stipe]

Quite frankly we have been suckered by the suits in head office most of whom have never dunged a stable out in their life.

You don't need flash facilities to attract crowds to the races.  Clean toilets, good food and cheap drinks.  I'm not sure the toilets were upgraded at Hokitika in 30 years but they were a damn sight cleaner than many a fancy night club I've been to.

The community race meeting was an event which operated at low cost and introduced most of us to racing.

That's gone now.

Who in their right mind finds anything aesthetically pleasing about watching 12 horses galloping on artificial dirt barely within view from a fancy seat amongst a whole lot of wannabe tossers?

[Gospel of Judas]

11 hours ago, Freda said:

Sadly, Reefton, I think you are right.

Shutting the lot would be the option if they were honest, this way it is death by a thousand cuts.

As you say, your club has the potential to be upgraded, if the will was there, it isn't.  Hokitika also had the funds for upgrades, if that had been an option.  It wasn't.   'Clubs don't need to disband, the option will be to race at another course'...  sure it is.    Hokitika have been denied a date [ apart from the first year ]  since giving NZTR the middle finger and giving their asset back to the community.

Three days squashed into six days is not attractive to trainers visiting from elsewhere, and if reduced to two?  Kumara survived the banana skin referred to with a loan [ since repaid ] from Westland.   That won't be available any more.

And, apart from the pleasure of seeing old friends/families over the hill - and some pretty nice scenery - the costs that are ever increasing in this industry are reducing the appeal for many Cantabrians, with the possibility of more racing over this side.

Dargaville is now on the radar.  While I have every sympathy with the club,  breast-beating and hiring legal counsel is pointless.   The writing has been on the wall since the passing of the Racing Act 2000 with that action [ nicking club assets ] now enshrined in law.   How, beats me.  It just highlights the ineptitude of pollies [ or more likely their utter disinterest in things racing ]  to pass such legislation more redolent of a banana republic.

The attitude of the NZTA Pres. is telling...' close them down, they're costing us money '.   Thus speaketh the Waikato glitterati.

Say not pollies, more capture of pollies. I.e Waikato breeders, Whales, Ellis, Horgan, Velas of this world. First them talking, with crocked old Winny Peters, only in it for himself. Him paid off, could start their agenda. National not really fight for them, let industry deal with it. What comes out with it deal with. Cause, Racing Admin all in it for themselves, since not got any skin in the game, don't care as well. Current Labour lot, don't even know what day of the week it is. So, no help there! never going be. Why Walkato breeders got all industry all too themselves. End up piss it up against the wall. All Hogan and co got there money out and don't care, keep going on like that. Untill NZ Racing be a picnic circuit around about eight courses at best, in the future.

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, Doomed said:

I think he has got a bit confused. No other trotting clubs closed down and centralised at Greymouth. The galloping proposal was for several galloping clubs to all move to a new track, which in hindsight would have been a good idea. I doubt the offer, and funding, will be made again.

100% correct on all points though as I said I wanted the Trotting Track and Pony Club there as well.  At the time the NZRB had money for that sort of thing.  Not now obviously.

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What was one of the oldest Harness Racing Clubs in NZ?

However you may be missing the point - if Victoria Park Raceway couldn't survive (Mafia Mawhera Corporation aside) why would you expect a centralised Galloping venue would survive?

You're telling half the story.  The rental from the Mawhera Incorporation at Victoria Park crippled the Greymouth Trotting Club.  You pay 7% of land value and given it was in the middle of town that land value was(by Coast standards) high.  They simply couldn't afford it and given the trouble with the Omoto track at the time there was no point shifting there.  Now that O'Malley has it sorted they probably would have shifted BUT they would be bloody wary of the flood risk too given that the only evacuation option now days is little old Reefton.  Years ago if Omoto flooded Victoria Park was where they went.

Sadly the Maoris have done nothing with Victoria Park - it is now just a scrubby wasteland and you would never know there was ever a race course there.  When I was a kid I had a job at Victoria Park biking the race results to the Telegraph office after each race.  Big sprint down the road to get back in time for the next.  No Internet or faxes back then.

[Freda]

17 hours ago, Freda said:

 

Can't answer that, with quantitative analysis.  But, certainly, anecdotally, many people.  Hell, I read a piece [ not sure where now ] which indicated just how much support provincial racing received from local councils/state govt, to 'marry up' the racing experience with the whole tourist industry, with wine trails, vineyards/restaurants, stud tours, orchards, fishing, boating, flower farms, the whole deal wrapped up to showcase the region.

Just re read this, I was referring to Australia,  in case there was any ambiguity.  Not here,   enterprise such as mentioned seems not to happen. 

The Wild Foods festival in Hokitika was held the same weekend ( March) as the races for a few years, I used to think there was potential for both to benefit but the club felt they - and the circuit -  were better off all in January  and went back to that date.

I know former  president Gray Eatwell had ideas to incorporate a sort of 'wild west ' experience with the races but nothing flew there.

The Gisborne/Wairoa meetings were an experience too, now gone and marked by a nothing day at Hastings.   If built into the tourist trail with additional support from the district,  things may have been different.   Geez, we have become- in the main- an apathetic bunch of sheep.

It's been said often, we get what we deserve, and we certainly are.

[Shad]

22 hours ago, Freda said:

Are you on drugs?  where did I ever imply that I don't support small clubs or provincial racing?

For the record, I went down to Omoto with the Kennedy's, helped remove driftwood from the track and dead frogs from the tearooms, and my runner [ Strange Magic ] went very close to the track record in a 1400m race the next day.

What a good horse strange magic was,by quito from memory, and used to run in front, was he trained by Colin Coe, must have won 9 or 10 races, and liked the coast, one of my favourites back in the day, oh the memories,.

[Shad]

Oops my mistake, was trained by John Rehu, think I was getting mixed up with another I used to follow a horse called Motor Head, it's a buggar getting old,the memory not what it used to be.

[Doomed]

19 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which centralisation effort in Thoroughbred Racing has turned out OK?

I have a theory that is a modified version of Einsteins maxim which was "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result" - my version is "if something isn't working then try the complete opposite".

So wouldn't it have been better for NZTR to support those small clubs than subsidise the big clubs?  Wouldn't it have been better for the small clubs to have got the true return from their endeavours than it being used to prop up the big clubs?  Instead we've closed down more and more interfaces with the community.  

We see the same thing happening now with the AWT's - moving from a low cost operating model to a high cost model in the face of declining revenue.  The classic example of this is Foxton - why close it down?  Why not allow race meetings to occur there?  It doesn't cost NZTR anymore to race there than it does on an AWT.

You are still getting a bit confused. The proposal on the Coast was for several rundown galloping tracks, all quite close to each other, all to be closed down and a vastly superior track to be build for them all to use.  There really seemed to be no downside to that.

The current idea of centralisation is for clubs like Timaru  and Marlborough to move miles away to Riccarton, a track that doesn't even have a public grandstand.  In the case of Timaru the track is probably superior to the one they are being asked to move to. 

There are numerous examples of a country club moving to a no hoper city track that have been a disaster, notably Masterton to Trentham. 

The Coast situation is totally different to the current  proposals.

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Just re read this, I was referring to Australia,  in case there was any ambiguity.  Not here,   enterprise such as mentioned seems not to happen. 

The Wild Foods festival in Hokitika was held the same weekend ( March) as the races for a few years, I used to think there was potential for both to benefit but the club felt they - and the circuit -  were better off all in January  and went back to that date.

I know former  president Gray Eatwell had ideas to incorporate a sort of 'wild west ' experience with the races but nothing flew there.

The Gisborne/Wairoa meetings were an experience too, now gone and marked by a nothing day at Hastings.   If built into the tourist trail with additional support from the district,  things may have been different.   Geez, we have become- in the main- an apathetic bunch of sheep.

It's been said often, we get what we deserve, and we certainly are.

These type of ideas are all well and good until you try to get the support of the governing body or other clubs and this is where the industry has really gone backwards - blatant favouritism for certain clubs , favouritism that has had absolutely nothing to do with exceptional performance or average performance for that matter.

This is where most of the country venues have been completely screwed over, take your example for the Wairoa/Gisborne meetings , they cost the industry very little and yet add character , grow interest in the sport and relative to their costs to the industry perform quite well.

So what we are sold in NZ is the baloney that the same outcomes will happen at a different venue - which as you've rightly pointed out never happens just another meeting at another city track that next to no one is interested in. That approach  is now being replicated across the country and put on steroids' in the case of the AWT venues, which are fast becoming characterless, monotonous duplicated bore fests as each new meeting goes by ! (of course that is only my opinion ). 

That is our solution for fixing the industry -  we are screwed!

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Doomed said:

You are still getting a bit confused. The proposal on the Coast was for several rundown galloping tracks, all quite close to each other, all to be closed down and a vastly superior track to be build for them all to use.  There really seemed to be no downside to that.

What is your definition of "rundown"?  The tracks at Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Riccarton and Trentham have been stuffed for quite some time.  Awapuni was the centre of the amalgamation of a number of clubs - didn't improve the racing surface did it?  In that regard name ONE club amalgamation that has been successful?

In terms of Downside - isn't it blatantly obvious now that removing clubs from communities and shifting to higher cost delivery models has been an absolute failure?

 

[Huey]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What is your definition of "rundown"?  The tracks at Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Riccarton and Trentham have been stuffed for quite some time.  Awapuni was the centre of the amalgamation of a number of clubs - didn't improve the racing surface did it?  In that regard name ONE club amalgamation that has been successful?

In terms of Downside - isn't it blatantly obvious now that removing clubs from communities and shifting to higher cost delivery models has been an absolute failure?

 

I'm told Fielding has been an unbridled success?

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Shad said:

Oops my mistake, was trained by John Rehu, think I was getting mixed up with another I used to follow a horse called Motor Head, it's a buggar getting old,the memory not what it used to be.

Go back and read properly -  said ' my runner '  .....!      yes, he was by Quito, very quick little bloke.

Colin Coe had nowt to do with him, but John Rehu shared in the ownership.   Trained by my then partner R.J ' Mouse' McCann.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The Coast situation is totally different to the current  proposals.

It isn't TOTALLY different - it is exactly the same except on a smaller scale.

You are also not considering the West Coast climate but are fixed into a rigid paradigm of delivery.  If the West Coast has four racetracks that cost the industry next to nothing in upkeep (except Kumara who have had their hand out for years and have been given extra from headquarters) then you have four venues that can offer a surface for racing on.  

Contrary to what many in the cities think the West Coast climate varies considerably over small distances.  If you centralised to ONE course you would have increased the odds of ALL meetings on the Coast being abandoned.  

Now in my opinion a better option would have been to amalgamate the clubs but retain the race courses and then have more flexibility in where you raced on each day that was offered.  Why build a high cost model of operation for very few race dates per year and increase the risk of race meeting being abandoned?

@Reefton has commented on this approach before where some flexibility between the Coast clubs, the TAB and NZTR would have seen meetings transferred within 24 hours.  That model could have applied to the CD as well.  Would you rather have a meeting abandoned at Awapuni or transferred to Foxton?

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Huey said:

This is where most of the country venues have been completely screwed over, take your example for the Wairoa/Gisborne meetings , they cost the industry very little and yet add character , grow interest in the sport and relative to their costs to the industry perform quite well.

Precisely - the exact point I've been (trying) making.  The Wairoa meeting WAS on my bucket list not having been to the East Coast.  I understood that the social side and the seafood buffets were legendary!!  Once or twice a year the Circus came to town - remember all the kids that wanted to join the Circus?  How many kids make it to Ellerslie?

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, Huey said:

That approach  is now being replicated across the country and put on steroids' in the case of the AWT venues, which are fast becoming characterless, monotonous duplicated bore fests as each new meeting goes by ! (of course that is only my opinion ). 

Who in their right mind would want to go watch an AWT race at Awapuni when you good enjoy the turf and character of Foxton?

[Chief Stipe]

Foxton Stewards - can anyone recognise @curious?

[Michael]

20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What was one of the oldest Harness Racing Clubs in NZ?

However you may be missing the point - if Victoria Park Raceway couldn't survive (Mafia Mawhera Corporation aside) why would you expect a centralised Galloping venue would survive?

I'm not missing the point

I'm asking you which Harness Racing Clubs centralised to Victoria Park as your earlier post intimated?

If the answer is none just admit it

Don't duck 'n dive like you know who

[Joe Bloggs]

17 minutes ago, Freda said:

Go back and read properly -  said ' my runner '  .....!      yes, he was by Quito, very quick little bloke.

Colin Coe had nowt to do with him, but John Rehu shared in the ownership.   Trained by my then partner R.J ' Mouse' McCann.

Nothing like a late night drink? Very dangerous drinking on your own also........LOL

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

This is where most of the country venues have been completely screwed over, take your example for the Wairoa/Gisborne meetings , they cost the industry very little and yet add character , grow interest in the sport and relative to their costs to the industry perform quite well.

 

Jesus , they were costing owners a fortune in travel costs , get with the f@#king programming , and will you please ramp up your positivity , it may be Sunday but there is no excuse .

Back on the tapes it think , you haven't given them back yet have you ? .

[nomates]

54 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Precisely - the exact point I've been (trying) making.  The Wairoa meeting WAS on my bucket list not having been to the East Coast.  I understood that the social side and the seafood buffets were legendary!!  Once or twice a year the Circus came to town - remember all the kids that wanted to join the Circus?  How many kids make it to Ellerslie?

Went to all 3 days the year Marlon won the cup , fantastic week , place was mobbed . Still remember it with fondness .

More meetings like this will get people and kids loving racing again .

[nomates]

53 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Who in their right mind would want to go watch an AWT race at Awapuni when you good enjoy the turf and character of Foxton?

Always drew a great crowd , even in winter . At the Queens birthday meeting , if the day was fine you couldn't move on the public hill .

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

What is your definition of "rundown"?  The tracks at Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Riccarton and Trentham have been stuffed for quite some time.  Awapuni was the centre of the amalgamation of a number of clubs - didn't improve the racing surface did it?  In that regard name ONE club amalgamation that has been successful?

In terms of Downside - isn't it blatantly obvious now that removing clubs from communities and shifting to higher cost delivery models has been an absolute failure?

 

Can someone name all the clubs that race at Awapuni under the RACE banner , there is no identity there .