Mark D Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 From the Optimist - Brian De Lore NZTR Chairman Cameron George ended up with both feet in his mouth last Friday week by carelessly putting his mouth into gear while his brain was in neutral. The incident followed the board meeting of NZTR (New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing) at Riccarton Racecourse on the day before the running of the Grand National Steeplechase. Shaun Clotworthy was present in the room unbeknown to George when CEO Bernard Saundry made it known to George that Clotworthy had been appointed the new President of the New Zealand Trainers’ Association. Participating in the meeting via Zoom from Australia, Cameron George made a series of disparaging remarks about Shaun and his appointment – overheard by all in earshot, including Shaun Clotworthy. Saundry attempted to hush him up, but George didn’t twig and continued the tirade until Clotworthy came into camera view. Predictably, it then stopped but without any sign of embarrassment or apology from George. Details of the incident became known to The Optimist neither from Shaun Clotworthy nor anyone on the board. But when something that crass occurs, it’s human nature for a spillage of the beans, and it came to these pages second-hand, but afterwards confirmed in a phone call to Shaun Clotworthy. Why is Cameron George on the board of NZTR ? It raises a couple of questions that people in racing were asking before this incident. Why is Cameron George on the board of NZTR, and why is he the Chair? He’s Australian and has spent the whole of 2021 living and working in Australia; how can he possibly do justice to a position that requires constant attention for an industry declining at an alarming rate. How do industry participants draw any confidence from someone who behaves in this manner? Not only is it a low act, but why would the Chair of NZTR turn vitriolic about anyone’s appointment at the Trainers’ Association unless it’s someone unlikely to comply with the cartel or someone who might stand firm for the battlers in racing, or someone who might mobilise his members for a better deal than they’ve been getting. Shaun could be all of those. Shaun and Emma Clotworthy have been great supporters of the racing industry for many years, as was Shaun’s father, Kim Clotworthy, before that, going back to the days of the champion colt, Uncle Remus. They are a highly respected racing family that will still be involved long after Cameron George is a forgotten name back in Australia. The New Zealand racing industry faces numerous challenges without cowboy behaviour borne out of buffoonery, ego, or self-interest. This sort of stuff has been going on for too long. Nepotism has become the norm, evident by a recent appointment, and denialism about the state of the racing industry is endemic in the ranks of racing administrators and even more so in Government circles which, led by Minister of Racing Grant Robertson, has assumed ownership of the TAB. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Why is no one surprised by this , CG is a hack and BS is right alongside him in self serving inability . These guys are hyena's scavenging off a wounded beast . The biggest issue is that the trainers assn has been toothless for years and these guys know that and that they are never going to be held to account by them , hence they continue to go about their daily routine of achieving nothing of note for the industry . Hopefully Shaun shows more bottle than his last few predecessors . IMO the trainers assn in conjunction with the owners assn need to start a petition of no confidence in the current management , and start getting more say in how NZ racing is structured . Until this or some other strong action is taken by the true participants of NZ racing , nothing is going to change . So far the only thing that hasn't changed is the people who hold real power in NZ racing , participants , continue to put self interest ahead of fighting for more say . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) I have always found Shaun to be great to deal with Haven't met George, but he looks like a dick on TV Edited August 24, 2021 by Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 You have to hand it to Aussies, they can sniff out an opportunity or two, in this case shamefully so, to denigrate the new boss of the ATA and have no track record yourself except for disaster after disaster, well, surely they both need to be punted immediately.....can I ask why Shaun hasn't sued George for defamation ? Saundry will face his day no doubt but Shaun should be able to send this bloke packing on the back of the diatribe he dished out in a public forum with many witnesses. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 So there is more in this article , apparently the RIU's budget is increasing from 9mil to 14mil , an increase of 5mil , stakes increases for this season in the gallops code was around 4.6mil . So they will spend more on policing than giving back to industry participants , as ever a completely skewed look at what is required for this industry . Give it long enough though and the RIU budget will decrease , because following their management plan year on year there will be less and less for them to police as participants leave the sport . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, nomates said: So there is more in this article , apparently the RIU's budget is increasing from 9mil to 14mil , an increase of 5mil , stakes increases for this season in the gallops code was around 4.6mil . So they will spend more on policing than giving back to industry participants , as ever a completely skewed look at what is required for this industry . Give it long enough though and the RIU budget will decrease , because following their management plan year on year there will be less and less for them to police as participants leave the sport . Even with the Police budget millions they couldn't make INCA a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, nomates said: So there is more in this article , apparently the RIU's budget is increasing from 9mil to 14mil , an increase of 5mil , stakes increases for this season in the gallops code was around 4.6mil . So they will spend more on policing than giving back to industry participants , as ever a completely skewed look at what is required for this industry . Give it long enough though and the RIU budget will decrease , because following their management plan year on year there will be less and less for them to police as participants leave the sport . Big budget increase for RIU Here’s something you probably don’t know: While owners and trainers are eating the wallpaper off their walls (you already knew that), the newly appointed RIU (Racing Integrity Unit) Board have had a budget increase from $9 million last season to $14 million for this current season. Who’s paying? You are! Why? Partly because they are employing four new animal welfare inspectors to make sure everyone is doing the correct thing in the eyes of the PC brigade and ‘the Greenies,’ and unlike the rest of the industry, the Minister sees the need to expand or strengthen its control according to the Racing Act 2020. Does the budget also allow for an upgrade in the quality of the single malt scotch in the boardroom liquor cabinet? Have a look at the new RIU Board. Appointed by Minister Robertson is the Chair Sir Bruce Robertson, well advanced in years, a retired judge who has a sports background but devoid of racing knowledge; Kristy McDonald QC, who has had her snout in the racing trough for years; Dr Patricia Pearce – vet and animal welfare; Brent Williams – ex JCA board member, and on the board of the NZ Egg producers Association; Penny Mudford, company director like the others, the veterinary council of NZ, Rural Woman NZ, and former Chair of the Racing Safety Development Fund Industry Working Group. …stereotypical Government-appointed board This board ticks all the boxes of the modern, stereotypical Government-appointed board with gender equality, a high average age with a cushy retiree look, an all-but-one content of names with numerous letters attached, and a long history of ‘Institute of Directors’ experience. The only thing they lack is a deep knowledge of racing which they may say isn’t required. Then add Chief Executive Mike Clement, a retired NZ Police Deputy Commissioner of 42 years service, and you have it all, at an estimated cost of $14 million for one year. Five years ago, in 2016, the Annual Report of NZRB listed the cost of the RIU at $5.8 million. In five seasons, that’s an increase of 240 percent. In the same five years, the thoroughbred foal crop has dropped 30 percent, which on the face of it, says that this expansion of the RIU is a complete overkill. Is it a Government kneejerk reaction to a series of accusations made against the greyhound fraternity on animal welfare issues? Back in April, Minister Robertson announced he was putting in place a review of animal welfare and safety in the greyhound racing industry. Robertson said, “I have informed Greyhound Racing NZ that I am not satisfied the recommendations are being implemented in a way that is improving animal welfare, and with their failure to provide sufficient information on changes they are making.” Sir Bruce Robertson led the review Minister Robertson appointed Sir Bruce Robertson to lead the review, which was supposed to be completed by August 1st. As at August 23rd, nothing has been released, but it was very clear in April that the Government was most unhappy with the greyhound people led by recalcitrant CEO Glenda Hughes who failed to act upon a request for regular progress reports. The Government press statement released jointly by Minister Robertson and Associate Agriculture Minister Meka Whaitiri didn’t mince words. “It is the responsibility of the industry to hold itself accountable and ensure the best possible standards of welfare for greyhounds. Should the review show that progress has not been sufficient, a further fundamental look at the greyhound racing industry may be required,” Grant Robertson said. If that wasn’t a clear enough warning, Whaitiri said, “I had written to Greyhound Racing New Zealand suggesting that they may wish to continue regular progress reporting on the recommendations from the Hansen Report. That suggestion was not acted on and this review will now address these matters.” Attitudinal issues at Greyhound Racing NZ Attitudinal issues at Greyhound Racing NZ also resulted in the code having no representatives on the board of TAB NZ. The code nomination (Stephen Henry) was unacceptable to the Minister, and when asked to submit a new nomination, they resubmitted the same name, as did Harness Racing NZ (Shaun Brooks). Both codes dug a hole for themselves to advance an argument they were never going to win. The unknown cost of the new Racing New Zealand Board which is in the process of having two independent directors appointed, likely to be mercenary graduates from the Institute of Directors, will add more strain to industry finances. Then add the cost of the new position of Chief Operating Officer as 2IC to Bernard Saundry and, all things considered, this racing industry is carrying on as though it’s the 1980s and all is well, and they’re printing money like the Government. When the stake increases were announced by Bernard Saundry in July, he carried on as though we’d all won Lotto, and we should all be so grateful. Spin doctor Bernard Saundry Saundry said, “What a difference a year makes. Obviously, the owners will be the main beneficiaries. All levels will benefit. Of course, NZTR cannot take all the credit for the latest stake increases. There has been a concerted effort across the industry to reduce costs and we must acknowledge the substantial cost reductions achieved by TAB NZ” Bernard, what planet did you come from? If you owned a few racehorses, you might come to your senses. The reality is the financial viability of the racing business is in freefall. You are right about a year making a difference – every year we fall further behind as the ratio of costs against potential returns worsens. But you are also right about owners being the beneficiaries – that’s because they’re soon all heading to the dole queue at WINZ to get the benefit. And as for NZTR taking credit for the increases, there is no credit for you to take. You have put a paltry $2.2 million into the minimum stake to get it to $12,000, which is pathetic. Most of the NZTR board were against putting any money into the minimum because they wanted it all in the middle and top. Every owner has to take their horse through the maiden and R65 class Every owner has to take their horse through the maiden and R65 class to get to the middle and top to stay alive in the ownership game. If you don’t feed the troops, you will have an army running on empty stomachs and losing the battle. What is it about understanding the fundamentals of racing that administrators in this country have lacked for decades? All the added costs outlined above will virtually wipe out the $13 million Winston Peters got back with the two per cent betting levy in the 2020 budget. The $20 million we are supposedly getting back from ‘racefields’ or Betting Information User Charges has only made up for the shortfall in other areas, and the stake increases as mentioned above only apply between September and April and are three-monthly reviewable. In review, what we now have in New Zealand racing is not dissimilar to what happened 16 years ago when Winston Peters in his first term as Racing Minister was able to help the industry by signing off the free tax rebate. It was worth $33 million to racing in the first year and recurred annually with incremental increases to the extent that it’s worth double that today. NZRB grabbed most of the money for themselves The problem was that from 2005, NZRB grabbed most of the money for themselves instead of it coming back to owners in stakes. For the next 12 years, NZRB expanded at a rate of knots, and the wages bill went from $27 million to $66 million (+149%). For the same period, stakes rose by only 51 percent. Racing became the punching bag for the Government of the day. Well, it’s groundhog day. As soon as they’ve gathered some extra dollars again, it’s redirected elsewhere. It is sad to say that many racing administrators today don’t believe that pumping as much money into stakes as possible will enhance the industry – they apparently have learned nothing from Australia. My figures say the foal crop will be down 14 percent this spring which can also be used as a barometer for ownership. In Australia, 63 percent of owners are breeders, and one would expect the stat would be similar in New Zealand. Those lines on the graph will continue to decline in unison unless our spin doctor administrators recognise the reality of the industry’s demise and take drastic and positive action with a remedy plan. If they can’t, they should all resign. Whatever way you look at it, the three codes and all subsidiary boards, and heavy-handed Government control, have taken this racing industry into a deeper state of the serious malaise described in the Messara Review three years ago. Albert Einstein summed up the situation best a little longer than three years ago when he said: “There are only two things that are infinite – the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the universe.” 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big budget increase for RIU Here’s something you probably don’t know: While owners and trainers are eating the wallpaper off their walls (you already knew that), the newly appointed RIU (Racing Integrity Unit) Board have had a budget increase from $9 million last season to $14 million for this current season. Who’s paying? You are! Why? Partly because they are employing four new animal welfare inspectors to make sure everyone is doing the correct thing in the eyes of the PC brigade and ‘the Greenies,’ and unlike the rest of the industry, the Minister sees the need to expand or strengthen its control according to the Racing Act 2020. Does the budget also allow for an upgrade in the quality of the single malt scotch in the boardroom liquor cabinet? Have a look at the new RIU Board. Appointed by Minister Robertson is the Chair Sir Bruce Robertson, well advanced in years, a retired judge who has a sports background but devoid of racing knowledge; Kristy McDonald QC, who has had her snout in the racing trough for years; Dr Patricia Pearce – vet and animal welfare; Brent Williams – ex JCA board member, and on the board of the NZ Egg producers Association; Penny Mudford, company director like the others, the veterinary council of NZ, Rural Woman NZ, and former Chair of the Racing Safety Development Fund Industry Working Group. …stereotypical Government-appointed board This board ticks all the boxes of the modern, stereotypical Government-appointed board with gender equality, a high average age with a cushy retiree look, an all-but-one content of names with numerous letters attached, and a long history of ‘Institute of Directors’ experience. The only thing they lack is a deep knowledge of racing which they may say isn’t required. Then add Chief Executive Mike Clement, a retired NZ Police Deputy Commissioner of 42 years service, and you have it all, at an estimated cost of $14 million for one year. Five years ago, in 2016, the Annual Report of NZRB listed the cost of the RIU at $5.8 million. In five seasons, that’s an increase of 240 percent. In the same five years, the thoroughbred foal crop has dropped 30 percent, which on the face of it, says that this expansion of the RIU is a complete overkill. Is it a Government kneejerk reaction to a series of accusations made against the greyhound fraternity on animal welfare issues? Back in April, Minister Robertson announced he was putting in place a review of animal welfare and safety in the greyhound racing industry. Robertson said, “I have informed Greyhound Racing NZ that I am not satisfied the recommendations are being implemented in a way that is improving animal welfare, and with their failure to provide sufficient information on changes they are making.” Sir Bruce Robertson led the review Minister Robertson appointed Sir Bruce Robertson to lead the review, which was supposed to be completed by August 1st. As at August 23rd, nothing has been released, but it was very clear in April that the Government was most unhappy with the greyhound people led by recalcitrant CEO Glenda Hughes who failed to act upon a request for regular progress reports. The Government press statement released jointly by Minister Robertson and Associate Agriculture Minister Meka Whaitiri didn’t mince words. “It is the responsibility of the industry to hold itself accountable and ensure the best possible standards of welfare for greyhounds. Should the review show that progress has not been sufficient, a further fundamental look at the greyhound racing industry may be required,” Grant Robertson said. If that wasn’t a clear enough warning, Whaitiri said, “I had written to Greyhound Racing New Zealand suggesting that they may wish to continue regular progress reporting on the recommendations from the Hansen Report. That suggestion was not acted on and this review will now address these matters.” Attitudinal issues at Greyhound Racing NZ Attitudinal issues at Greyhound Racing NZ also resulted in the code having no representatives on the board of TAB NZ. The code nomination (Stephen Henry) was unacceptable to the Minister, and when asked to submit a new nomination, they resubmitted the same name, as did Harness Racing NZ (Shaun Brooks). Both codes dug a hole for themselves to advance an argument they were never going to win. The unknown cost of the new Racing New Zealand Board which is in the process of having two independent directors appointed, likely to be mercenary graduates from the Institute of Directors, will add more strain to industry finances. Then add the cost of the new position of Chief Operating Officer as 2IC to Bernard Saundry and, all things considered, this racing industry is carrying on as though it’s the 1980s and all is well, and they’re printing money like the Government. When the stake increases were announced by Bernard Saundry in July, he carried on as though we’d all won Lotto, and we should all be so grateful. Spin doctor Bernard Saundry Saundry said, “What a difference a year makes. Obviously, the owners will be the main beneficiaries. All levels will benefit. Of course, NZTR cannot take all the credit for the latest stake increases. There has been a concerted effort across the industry to reduce costs and we must acknowledge the substantial cost reductions achieved by TAB NZ” Bernard, what planet did you come from? If you owned a few racehorses, you might come to your senses. The reality is the financial viability of the racing business is in freefall. You are right about a year making a difference – every year we fall further behind as the ratio of costs against potential returns worsens. But you are also right about owners being the beneficiaries – that’s because they’re soon all heading to the dole queue at WINZ to get the benefit. And as for NZTR taking credit for the increases, there is no credit for you to take. You have put a paltry $2.2 million into the minimum stake to get it to $12,000, which is pathetic. Most of the NZTR board were against putting any money into the minimum because they wanted it all in the middle and top. Every owner has to take their horse through the maiden and R65 class Every owner has to take their horse through the maiden and R65 class to get to the middle and top to stay alive in the ownership game. If you don’t feed the troops, you will have an army running on empty stomachs and losing the battle. What is it about understanding the fundamentals of racing that administrators in this country have lacked for decades? All the added costs outlined above will virtually wipe out the $13 million Winston Peters got back with the two per cent betting levy in the 2020 budget. The $20 million we are supposedly getting back from ‘racefields’ or Betting Information User Charges has only made up for the shortfall in other areas, and the stake increases as mentioned above only apply between September and April and are three-monthly reviewable. In review, what we now have in New Zealand racing is not dissimilar to what happened 16 years ago when Winston Peters in his first term as Racing Minister was able to help the industry by signing off the free tax rebate. It was worth $33 million to racing in the first year and recurred annually with incremental increases to the extent that it’s worth double that today. NZRB grabbed most of the money for themselves The problem was that from 2005, NZRB grabbed most of the money for themselves instead of it coming back to owners in stakes. For the next 12 years, NZRB expanded at a rate of knots, and the wages bill went from $27 million to $66 million (+149%). For the same period, stakes rose by only 51 percent. Racing became the punching bag for the Government of the day. Well, it’s groundhog day. As soon as they’ve gathered some extra dollars again, it’s redirected elsewhere. It is sad to say that many racing administrators today don’t believe that pumping as much money into stakes as possible will enhance the industry – they apparently have learned nothing from Australia. My figures say the foal crop will be down 14 percent this spring which can also be used as a barometer for ownership. In Australia, 63 percent of owners are breeders, and one would expect the stat would be similar in New Zealand. Those lines on the graph will continue to decline in unison unless our spin doctor administrators recognise the reality of the industry’s demise and take drastic and positive action with a remedy plan. If they can’t, they should all resign. Whatever way you look at it, the three codes and all subsidiary boards, and heavy-handed Government control, have taken this racing industry into a deeper state of the serious malaise described in the Messara Review three years ago. Albert Einstein summed up the situation best a little longer than three years ago when he said: “There are only two things that are infinite – the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the universe.”
Chief Stipe Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Come in @JJ Flash Principal Disinformation Officer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Come in @JJ Flash Principal Disinformation Officer. There is no one that can justify this , we had already worked out that a lot of available money had been redirected to things other than looking after participants . Cameron George's comments about a new Trainers Assn President clearly shows a what level of disdain they hold all levels of racing participants . Personally i believe that CG needs to publicly apologise and resign immediately , will he , not a chance , a complete lack of character . If someone tries to justify this then they simply have no credibility . But i have no doubt some will have a crack . 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 I've asked this question a few times without yet getting an answer but I'll try again. Can anyone tell how the new $2m computer system approved by Cameron George for NZTR has improved their racing experience? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Surely the other key aspect of the article is the industry doesn't need nor can it afford a COO and a CEO , surely one role has to go the way this industry is headed. How on earth can it be justified? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 52 minutes ago, nomates said: There is no one that can justify this , we had already worked out that a lot of available money had been redirected to things other than looking after participants . Cameron George's comments about a new Trainers Assn President clearly shows a what level of disdain they hold all levels of racing participants . Personally i believe that CG needs to publicly apologise and resign immediately , will he , not a chance , a complete lack of character . If someone tries to justify this then they simply have no credibility . But i have no doubt some will have a crack . He won't go , he is like most of the others they don't go because they really don't care! You'd have to say COVID must have saved his butt at the Warriors or surely he'd be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 41 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I've asked this question a few times without yet getting an answer but I'll try again. Can anyone tell how the new $2m computer system approved by Cameron George for NZTR has improved their racing experience? Still waiting for the mind blowing features of the product to be released aren't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 dear oh dear this industry just goes from bad to worse doesn't it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Dear oh dear! I mean I will bag shiite out of someone but ffs I'm not the head of NZTR Do these Aussies have no shame whatsoever? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Huey said: He won't go , he is like most of the others they don't go because they really don't care! You'd have to say COVID must have saved his butt at the Warriors or surely he'd be gone. But no one challenges him or BS , until that happens they will continue to thumb their noses at participants . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 18 minutes ago, Huey said: Still waiting for the mind blowing features of the product to be released aren't we? If we are waiting for them to release information on this product you'll be waiting a while , there would be stacks of shit ahead of it that we are waiting for them to release . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Chief , how did those posts i have just put up show up ahead of posts from an hour ago . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Ok corrected itself . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 hour ago, nomates said: If we are waiting for them to release information on this product you'll be waiting a while , there would be stacks of shit ahead of it that we are waiting for them to release . I heard its gonna wow you ; 0 What does the Single National System mean for Industry Participants? Currently external participants use NZTR’s Racing Management System, which is made up of Members' and Trainers' online service centre portals. These are accessed through NZTR’s website LOVERACING.NZ. Trainers and Breeders utilise these online service centres to manage their activity (nominations, withdrawals, gear requests, naming a horse, stable returns etc). Internally, NZTR uses the Racing Management System for all areas of our business, including our finance system. All participants who use NZTR’s online service centres (i.e., Members' or Trainers' Service Centre) will need to migrate to the equivalent within the Single National System. This will be conducted via education, training, and ongoing support for all participants by NZTR. NZTR’s National Racing Bureau team will still be available by phone, however, as part of our change to the Single National System we will be working with participants, educating them about how to use and migrate to our online services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Controversy has followed George from when he first arrived. He was CEO of Auckland when they sent NZ Thoroughbred Breeders packing at short notice from Ellerslie where the breeders owned their own building but did not hold a lease agreement. I found it very disappointing at the time that the large stud farms did not stand up to George and Co. Therefore I doubt whether either the Trainers Assn or The NZTR Board will have the balls to take any action. He should be made to resign as his position is now untenable. I believe that he has an agenda to move NZTR to Ellerslie and appoint The Fat Butcher as the next CEO. This is just what happens when we don't have democracy. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 20 minutes ago, Bloke said: This is just what happens when we don't have democracy. We have a democracy , it's just the people who have the position to speak up choose not to , for whatever reason . They make piddling little comments about stakes and things have to improve but none have the balls to really have a crack at them . Hence why CG and BS just do what they want . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Did no-one read these blokes CV's when they applied for their jobs? Did the alarm bells not ring then, hadn't they heard of Google......or Duckduckgo........anything?.........if they had, it would have saved a lot of grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KickintheKods Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 My mail is George will be gone from the Warriors within the next two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 48 minutes ago, nomates said: We have a democracy , it's just the people who have the position to speak up choose not to , for whatever reason . They make piddling little comments about stakes and things have to improve but none have the balls to really have a crack at them . Hence why CG and BS just do what they want . Not a true democracy. Clubs cannot vote for NZTR Board Members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
× Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead
Only 75 emoji are allowed.
× Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead
× Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor
× You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.