Trentham!

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

Remarkable coincidence - all these places where 'the soil structure is stuffed' have all been in the past renovated by the same sort of expert he claims to be.

Really Reefton?!  The best you can come up with getting an old West Coast dairy farmer to put a plough thorough.

None of the renovations have been done properly nor have they addressed the underlying problem - the soil structure.

It goes rock hard when dry, had a small rain shower it turns into an ice rink and a decent period of rain and it turns to mud.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

just can't see what there is to lose in ripping all these dodgy tracks with a mole plough like they did Grey - at the end of the day what have you got to lose?  You are aerating it two foot down and possibly creating drainage channels as well.

 

 

Short term mechanical fix that medium to long term makes the problem worse.

Of course you don't understand that.

[Huey]

4 hours ago, nomates said:

My take on today for what it's worth .

Firstly nothing has changed , we have been seeing meetings abandoned for unsafe surfaces for many years and yet no major track refurbishments have ever been undertaken , mere tinkering . The establishment of A/W tracks will not resolve a situation such as todays because we don't know the track is dangerous until racing has commenced , so the first big lie that they perpetrated about A/W's has been laid bare , A/W's will never stop us having abandonments , and therefor save the industry lost revenue , how much was lost today ?

Secondly for me , today's abandonment and subsequent xfer of 2 Group races to Te Rapa next week is a window into the future , CENTRALISATION , as in all major racing in the North . The reason these races were moved to Te Rapa is because if they had been put on at Awapuni next week the fields would have been decimated , the northern trainers simply wouldn't travel their horses down to the CD twice in a week . So how long till they say " well wait a minute all the good horses are up here , why are we doing all this travelling ? " , even more so with the huge upgrade in stakes with the new ATC .

Then how long till the Guineas races are xfered north , it has been a point of serious discussion for a number of years , nearly happened this year . They say all the best horses in these races come from the north what's the point in travelling all that way with young horses . How long till the calendar and best races are programmed to suit northern trainers and BIG owners . Have your guineas CRC they will say , we will just put on a Great Northern Guineas and the horses will stay home .

CD racing is dying , numbers are poor on the whole and decreasing , and whilst numbers in the south are strong , overall quality is poor , and i'm not just knocking SI racing for the sake of it , they still produce some good horses but they are few and far between , and i mean group quality , and along with the quality of horses the riding is of a very poor standard . It is what it is .

I'm not suggesting that they are trying to kill off racing in these districts , but they will be happy for them to play a very secondary roll in the overall picture of NZ racing . Will it work for the overall betterment of NZ racing , i don't know , i would suggest no one knows but it's what they want .

So while today is hugely disappointing for us hard core supporters and the local participants , i believe those with the real power and say in the direction of NZ racing wont be crying , more power to them .

How long till this becomes reality , how long is a piece of string , i would think sooner than later , maybe 5-10 years .

This is just my take on it , i try not to get too involved in these discussions these days , here or in other spheres , as being so passionate i get very frustrated and emotional and i  find it detrimental , i'm not alone in feeling this way , many people that i have known to be passionately involved have drawn back because it gets them so upset . It saddens me greatly .

Good luck to you all .

I think you'll be right on all accounts.

I too used to get angry and upset over it all, but what I've seen in the last 18-12 months has made be realise racing has absolutely no hope of surviing let alone flourishing in NZ whether that be in the North , CD or SI. 

I give it 3-5 years at best as it continues the self mutulation model at every opportunity!

THe whole thing will be like the European elitist model before too long at any rate , not good for its future in NZ.

[Huey]

I heard today one senior jock described the track as the worse they have ridden on, now that would be saying something in this country.

[Freda]

9 hours ago, Huey said:

I heard today one senior jock described the track as the worse they have ridden on, now that would be saying something in this country.

Would indeed.

But, where is the  [quality]  control?  Who assesses tracks before racing starts?   If we go back to the infamous 'cone' incident at Riccarton, clearly, no-one.

I went into the judicial room at Timaru, to intercede on behalf of a rider under a warning for an incompetent ride in a hurdle race.  Now, he wouldn't be alone in that.  If incompetence is to be considered,  then most would be in the room at some time, and some, a lot -  especially down here at the moment. This young fella was being grilled as to why he allowed his horse to drift so far off the last horse so as to give it no show.

He tried to explain that the horse was hanging so badly, that it was taking all his strength just to keep it from going over the outside fence.  It wasn't until the last bend was negotiated that the animal straightened enough to allow his rider to urge him forward.

Head stipe - who to the best of my knowledge has never ridden - said, you should have let the reins go.    !!!

WRT Wellington, I understand that a senior rider -maybe the same one to whom you refer, Huey?  told officials that there would be serious safety issues BEFORE the races started.

But, hey, they're expendable, send 'em  round and lets see, eh?

[Peanut]

I understand that the senior rider referred to above stated before race 1 that it would be the only race held on the day because the track was unsafe.   In a media statement the club subsequently rolled out the old "safety is paramount" so we did the right thing edict.   Really?

[Freda]

22 minutes ago, Peanut said:

I understand that the senior rider referred to above stated before race 1 that it would be the only race held on the day because the track was unsafe.   In a media statement the club subsequently rolled out the old "safety is paramount" so we did the right thing edict.   Really?

Yeah.  Sure.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Would indeed.

But, where is the  [quality]  control?  Who assesses tracks before racing starts?   If we go back to the infamous 'cone' incident at Riccarton, clearly, no-one.

I went into the judicial room at Timaru, to intercede on behalf of a rider under a warning for an incompetent ride in a hurdle race.  Now, he wouldn't be alone in that.  If incompetence is to be considered,  then most would be in the room at some time, and some, a lot -  especially down here at the moment. This young fella was being grilled as to why he allowed his horse to drift so far off the last horse so as to give it no show.

He tried to explain that the horse was hanging so badly, that it was taking all his strength just to keep it from going over the outside fence.  It wasn't until the last bend was negotiated that the animal straightened enough to allow his rider to urge him forward.

Head stipe - who to the best of my knowledge has never ridden - said, you should have let the reins go.    !!!

WRT Wellington, I understand that a senior rider -maybe the same one to whom you refer, Huey?  told officials that there would be serious safety issues BEFORE the races started.

But, hey, they're expendable, send 'em  round and lets see, eh?

Wow that is incredible and therein lies the problem the incompetence and experience from above just flows down the chain.

I've always believed racing biggest problem in NZ over the past 20 years has been it has never got personnel involved at an administrative level that are truly passionate or interested or experienced in the sport or at least in good numbers and at the admistrative level it just sends around the same small pool of administrators who merry go round those jobs, that has led to the downfall of it. Take your example of BS and horses galloping every day how on earth does an industry hire a leader who actually has no idea at all about the sport? Yet we continously do it across the board in NZ over and over again.

But nothing will change, nothing will come out of this latest incident either, no voices no cohesion from the trainers or jockeys just on to the next show!

[nod]

from what I read it appears a senior rider expressed concern about the safety of the track before race 1 but then went and rode in the race

Hard to believe someone would be so stupid and risk injury or life if they truly believed their assessment

He was entitled to refuse to ride

[Freda]

36 minutes ago, nod said:

from what I read it appears a senior rider expressed concern about the safety of the track before race 1 but then went and rode in the race

Hard to believe someone would be so stupid and risk injury or life if they truly believed their assessment

He was entitled to refuse to ride

Yes, he/she certainly was.

Peer pressure perhaps?  didn't want to be thought 'scared' ?  it is very easy to throw around remarks like 'he's got the shits'  but, they stick, and can dog a rider's career for ages.

Options?  Don't ride, and face recriminations from connections of horses.

                 Do ride, do your best, and risk injury.

                Canter round carefully and take everyone's money.

[Joe Bloggs]

During the past month trainers here in BNE/GC who are members of the TA have been asked for input on the Eagle Farm debacle and to vote on several motions. The TA have been very active in canvassing the BRC and RQ. There was a meeting at EF last week involving management and trainers, there will be further consultation before a final decision is made as to what happens, at the moment it's going to be remedial works [wont work] and if it fails a massive close down and a super fix.....[we live in hope] but at least the trainers are having a major say......if it goes to custard no one will nominate, the BRC will be the loser, and the owners........the Government will have to intervene eventually, NZ is a vastly different animal.

[nod]

27 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yes, he/she certainly was.

Peer pressure perhaps?  didn't want to be thought 'scared' ?  it is very easy to throw around remarks like 'he's got the shits'  but, they stick, and can dog a rider's career for ages.

Options?  Don't ride, and face recriminations from connections of horses.

                 Do ride, do your best, and risk injury.

                Canter round carefully and take everyone's money.

Yes, there are options -I well recall jockeys refusing to ride at Trentham  because the weather was TOO COLD

 

[The Centaur]

22 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Nah can't race tomorrow, Bernards playing bowls.......or pocket billiards....

What makes you think he wasn't playing bowls Saturday?

An option could have been to hold the three 1200m races then make a decision for races around the bends.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, The Centaur said:

What makes you think he wasn't playing bowls Saturday?

An option could have been to hold the three 1200m races then make a decision for races around the bends.

Never happen,  they jocks would quite rightly refuse to ride, not to mention the implications around the meeting called off.

[curious]

30 years too late ... but ...

5 December 2021
INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED INTO TRENTHAM ABANDONMENT
NZTR has implemented an investigation into the circumstances which resulted in the abandonment of the Wellington Racing Club’s Group One meeting on Saturday.
“NZ Sports Turf Institute (NZSTI) will commence a track review tomorrow morning, inspecting both the track and the data and reports from the Racing and Track managers,’’ NZTR CEO Bernard Saundry said.
“We have also requested a full report from the Racing Integrity Board (RIB) regarding the procedures leading up to and following the first race on Saturday,” he said.
RACE and Wellington Racing Club are extremely disappointed in what transpired yesterday at Trentham with the meeting abandoned after the running of the first race.
“We understand the consequences and outcomes due to the abandonment which affect not only RACE but the entire industry - through to sponsors, patrons, owners, trainers, jockeys, stablehands, officials and punters - and of course the programming of horses and their races at this important time of year,” RACE Chairman Paul Humphries said.
“As an organisation we need to do better, work with our team, staff, NZTR and industry on process, infrastructure and investment to remove risk where possible to ensure this won’t happen in the future,” he said.
NZTR is mindful of the fact that the abandonment has impacted the programme of a number of horses and that owners have been impacted financially. Those horses in the abandoned races will be eligible for compensation in line with NZTR’s policy.
Once NZTR has reviewed feedback from NZSTI, a full report from RACE, and the Racing Integrity Board, a further statement will be made outlining the findings.
[ENDS]

Edited December 5, 2021 by curious

[curious]

On 4/12/2021 at 1:00 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

did anyone think to gallop on the track at 6-30am? or has there been a torrential downpour?..........it goes from joke to choke, where's the midget Aussie, nah it's all the committee's fault ain't it?

No one was up or there at 6.30, let alone at 4.30.

[Chief Stipe]

39 minutes ago, curious said:

30 years too late ... but ...

5 December 2021
INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED INTO TRENTHAM ABANDONMENT
NZTR has implemented an investigation into the circumstances which resulted in the abandonment of the Wellington Racing Club’s Group One meeting on Saturday.
“NZ Sports Turf Institute (NZSTI) will commence a track review tomorrow morning, inspecting both the track and the data and reports from the Racing and Track managers,’’ NZTR CEO Bernard Saundry said.
“We have also requested a full report from the Racing Integrity Board (RIB) regarding the procedures leading up to and following the first race on Saturday,” he said.
RACE and Wellington Racing Club are extremely disappointed in what transpired yesterday at Trentham with the meeting abandoned after the running of the first race.
“We understand the consequences and outcomes due to the abandonment which affect not only RACE but the entire industry - through to sponsors, patrons, owners, trainers, jockeys, stablehands, officials and punters - and of course the programming of horses and their races at this important time of year,” RACE Chairman Paul Humphries said.
“As an organisation we need to do better, work with our team, staff, NZTR and industry on process, infrastructure and investment to remove risk where possible to ensure this won’t happen in the future,” he said.
NZTR is mindful of the fact that the abandonment has impacted the programme of a number of horses and that owners have been impacted financially. Those horses in the abandoned races will be eligible for compensation in line with NZTR’s policy.
Once NZTR has reviewed feedback from NZSTI, a full report from RACE, and the Racing Integrity Board, a further statement will be made outlining the findings.
[ENDS]

So NZSTI finds that the track is stuffed.  No money to build a new one or do a proper renovation so goodbye Trentham.

[Joe Bloggs]

Maybe Bernards salary for his last month or two is 'performance based'? hence the 'investigation'.........WAFJ........now if Foxton was an alternative all would be honkey dory, fuck all breakdowns, great surface and popular with the industry, the brains trust at the Taj are complicit in the 'road to ruin' mentality, no foresight, no intuition, no business acumen, the answers there, they just don't want to see it.......and that's a huge problem, not for them.....but for the industry.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, curious said:

30 years too late ... but ...

5 December 2021
INVESTIGATION LAUNCHED INTO TRENTHAM ABANDONMENT
NZTR has implemented an investigation into the circumstances which resulted in the abandonment of the Wellington Racing Club’s Group One meeting on Saturday.
“NZ Sports Turf Institute (NZSTI) will commence a track review tomorrow morning, inspecting both the track and the data and reports from the Racing and Track managers,’’ NZTR CEO Bernard Saundry said.
“We have also requested a full report from the Racing Integrity Board (RIB) regarding the procedures leading up to and following the first race on Saturday,” he said.
RACE and Wellington Racing Club are extremely disappointed in what transpired yesterday at Trentham with the meeting abandoned after the running of the first race.
“We understand the consequences and outcomes due to the abandonment which affect not only RACE but the entire industry - through to sponsors, patrons, owners, trainers, jockeys, stablehands, officials and punters - and of course the programming of horses and their races at this important time of year,” RACE Chairman Paul Humphries said.
“As an organisation we need to do better, work with our team, staff, NZTR and industry on process, infrastructure and investment to remove risk where possible to ensure this won’t happen in the future,” he said.
NZTR is mindful of the fact that the abandonment has impacted the programme of a number of horses and that owners have been impacted financially. Those horses in the abandoned races will be eligible for compensation in line with NZTR’s policy.
Once NZTR has reviewed feedback from NZSTI, a full report from RACE, and the Racing Integrity Board, a further statement will be made outlining the findings.
[ENDS]

This is nothing more than a tick off the KPI boxes . BS is just hoping that it takes long enough so that he can get his shit outa the country before the report comes back , hospital pass to the next WOFTAM that replaces him .

Really , WTF are they going to do if it comes back that the soil structure is completely fecked , which we already know , it's never going to undergo a full track replacement , so what then .

If the northern cartel decide that they are not risking the travel because they distrust the track , where then .

Sell it , move on .

[nomates]

1 hour ago, curious said:

No one was up or there at 6.30, let alone at 4.30.

I was , couldn't sleep so was up and about , i could have gone down and done a track inspection with my post hole spade .

[Joe Bloggs]

4 minutes ago, nomates said:

I was , couldn't sleep so was up and about , i could have gone down and done a track inspection with my post hole spade .

Classic

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, nomates said:

If the northern cartel decide that they are not risking the travel because they distrust the track , where then .

Sell it , move on .

Fewer and fewer places to move on to.

Sell Trentham and raise the swamp that is Awapuni.

[nomates]

I don't know who the track manager is or what his experience , maybe he's an ex jock or trainer who needs a job , seems to be happening more and more , D Bradley at Foxton and H Mathews is now doing Otaki , both good blokes and both good at their respective careers but track maintenance isn't a sideline or fallback option . 

We used to have a national track manager who seemed to be at odds with a large portion of tracks around the country and never gave anybody confidence that he knew what he was doing . Why can't employ someone with career knowledge and experience on the topic who can guide the inexperienced or lesser competent track managers , being saying this for years but it seems the one position they have never given serious credence to .

[nomates]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Fewer and fewer places to move on to.

Sell Trentham and raise the swamp that is Awapuni.

I've written small articles on this topic on here , sell and rebuild north of Foxton , sell Awapuni as well , they are both worth a small fortune and would cover a large portion if not all of the project . Future proofs the CD industry but they aren't worried about the future in the CD , said it earlier 5-10 years all major racing will be north of Taupo .

Strathayr at Ellerslie and the if the Greenfields happens in the Waikato Strathayr there also , sorted , 70-80% of racing on these 2 tracks and the rest playing support roles , as for the rest of the country , well if they can keep enough owners ploughing money into horses these areas maybe they can sustain some sort of racing , but really if you want to race a horse with money and tracks there would be only one place i would be spending my dosh .

 

[curious]

4 minutes ago, nomates said:

but really if you want to race a horse with money and tracks there would be only one place i would be spending my dosh .

 

Where is that?