Ludwig Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 On the same day that nominations are open for the Race, the Cambridge club cancels it's feature guineas race, due to insufficient entries. I'm going to keep on asking. How does The Race produce growth in horse numbers at the grassroots? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 What timing. I was just about to ask what has happened to this race thing. I had a look on the hrnz website and couldn't see any mention of it at all. When is it due to be run? Have the slots all sold? I'm not a big harness follower and I haven't seen any mention of it anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Doomed said: What timing. I was just about to ask what has happened to this race thing. I had a look on the hrnz website and couldn't see any mention of it at all. When is it due to be run? Have the slots all sold? I'm not a big harness follower and I haven't seen any mention of it anywhere. There is an article about it today, by Guerin, on the Hrnz website. It makes me wonder when was the last time Guerin did an article involving objective, critical analyais__rather than playing the role of cheerleader? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, Ludwig said: I'm going to keep on asking. How does The Race produce growth in horse numbers at the grassroots? Its a given that the numbers competing at the grassroots level will continue to decrease at an increasing rate. The most obvious reason is there is nowhere to train from. Take Canterbury as an example.Some racetracks can cater for only a handful of trainers,and some don't cater for any at all. The numbers at the tracks that do, you could count on one hand. And the reality is if you wanted to buy 10 hectares and build a barn and put in a track you need at least a $1,000,000. What banks going to lend that to someone starting out without a history of a past substantial income,and you don't have that when your starting out,no matter how talented you may be. And what grass roots trainer who has a wife is going to spend a million dollars on a property to continue his hobby. Only those with a substantial income from a source outside the industry are going to be able to do that and obviously they get that income from dedicating their time to their business. People should take a look around and you'll see what i have said is true.Just take a look at whos still training and what type of properties,how long they have been there, and the incomes they have.I have just recently and its so obvious where things are going. Nothing is being done to address it,i assume thats because the industry doesn't have the resources. Its inevitable. Its just reality. Just recently i was asking a fella whether he had a couple of paddocks to keep a couple of horses on his 10 acre property which had stables. He said no,the dairy farmer who was his neighbour leased it.I said to him doesn't that bloke live quite some distance away and he said yes,but that dairy farmer uses all the land from his house to where this fella lived. I asked him about anywhere he may know of ,to which he went on to tell me 30 years ago his properties 5 closest neighbours all trained harness horses,but there were no horses there now.The irony of the conversation was the dairy farmer who leased the small property used to train,and from the outside had a flash looking set of stables and the biggest training track i have seen. But that training track while still visible,it was round down and covered in weeds and obviously hadn't been used for years. You can't help but notice cows seem everywhere these days, and that has been the major influence in driving land values so high. So thats the way it is. Forget trying to come up with solutions to all the other issues,when racing either hasn't or can't fix what i have just referred to. Edited January 25, 2022 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Ludwig said: There is an article about it today, by Guerin, on the Hrnz website. It makes me wonder when was the last time Guerin did an article involving objective, critical analyais__rather than playing the role of cheerleader? Well, I'm buggered if I can find it, certainly not under the news section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 They must be very disappointed in the fields for Invercargill Cup day. One field of 10 is the biggest of the day, a few with 9 and others with 6, 7 and 8. Even the maidens can only attract 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, Doomed said: Well, I'm buggered if I can find it, certainly not under the news section. Sorry, I'm on my cell phone and it's hopeless at posting articles As for Invercargill, dreadful numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, the galah said: Its a given that the numbers competing at the grassroots level will continue to decrease at an increasing rate. The most obvious reason is there is nowhere to train from. Take Canterbury as an example.Some racetracks can cater for only a handful of trainers,and some don't cater for any at all. The numbers at the tracks that do, you could count on one hand. And the reality is if you wanted to buy 10 hectares and build a barn and put in a track you need at least a $1,000,000. What banks going to lend that to someone starting out without a history of a past substantial income,and you don't have that when your starting out,no matter how talented you may be. And what grass roots trainer who has a wife is going to spend a million dollars on a property to continue his hobby. Only those with a substantial income from a source outside the industry are going to be able to do that and obviously they get that income from dedicating their time to their business. People should take a look around and you'll see what i have said is true.Just take a look at whos still training and what type of properties,how long they have been there, and the incomes they have.I have just recently and its so obvious where things are going. Nothing is being done to address it,i assume thats because the industry doesn't have the resources. Its inevitable. Its just reality. Just recently i was asking a fella whether he had a couple of paddocks to keep a couple of horses on his 10 acre property which had stables. He said no,the dairy farmer who was his neighbour leased it.I said to him doesn't that bloke live quite some distance away and he said yes,but that dairy farmer uses all the land from his house to where this fella lived. I asked him about anywhere he may know of ,to which he went on to tell me 30 years ago his properties 5 closest neighbours all trained harness horses,but there were no horses there now.The irony of the conversation was the dairy farmer who leased the small property used to train,and from the outside had a flash looking set of stables and the biggest training track i have seen. But that training track while still visible,it was round down and covered in weeds and obviously hadn't been used for years. You can't help but notice cows seem everywhere these days, and that has been the major influence in driving land values so high. So thats the way it is. Forget trying to come up with solutions to all the other issues,when racing either hasn't or can't fix what i have just referred to. Yes you are correct about costs of starting out and land costs! The economics of racing horses nowadays just do not add up and cost of living is sky rocketing under our totally incompetent bunch of losers in power at the moment. The yearling sales this year is going to be very interesting being run via online! Personally can not see good prices being achieved for the average horse to make it worthwhile breeding a horse to be profitable. Harness racing has got big headwinds at the moment going on. Most race meetings are running at a loss going by the amount of TAB turnover being insufficient to be able to pay the stake money. On course attendance continues to dwindle and interest certainly waning from established enthusiasts! It is only going to get worse with the draconian policies in place! Edited January 25, 2022 by Brodie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 On 26/01/2022 at 8:27 AM, Brodie said: The yearling sales this year is going to be very interesting being run via online! Where did you read that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 41 minutes ago, Taku Umanga said: Where did you read that? I seems like he made it up, he does have a history of this sort of behavior Perhaps it suited his post at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 34 minutes ago, Rangatira said: I seems like he made it up, he does have a history of this sort of behavior Perhaps it suited his post at the time. There could be 4000 cases of Omicron a day by sales time if it doubles every two days like they say so who knows what this Govt will do if that happens. Might be on or might not be who knows for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: I seems like he made it up, he does have a history of this sort of behavior Perhaps it suited his post at the time. If events are restricted to 100 people how could you run it any other way than online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) On 26/01/2022 at 8:27 AM, Brodie said: Harness racing has got big headwinds at the moment going on. Most race meetings are running at a loss going by the amount of TAB turnover being insufficient to be able to pay the stake money. On course attendance continues to dwindle and interest certainly waning from established enthusiasts! It is only going to get worse with the draconian policies in place! Tonight cambridge has a $20,000 race with only 4 starters,and a $1.25 favorite.That won't attract punter support and help the club financially,yet they still run it and seem happy to take the loss that will result. And the brodsters right about waning interest from established punters. Personally i bet on a couple of accounts.Well in recent months as soon as i bet on a horse on fixed odds on one account,it drops in price by the time i attempt to put a bet on the other account.I'm talking in seconds,not minutes.Its not my imagination as it happens virtually 95% of the time.And i'm not talking large amounts. It can be as little as putting $20 on and it makes the price drop. When you work on the theory of a 10% profit per $ invested,its no longer worthwhile.I would go down to the local tab,but they won't let me in because of my vaccine status.So i have decided to reduce what i spend on both fixed odds and the tote. And is it just me,or are others noticing the ridiculous prices some horses are paying on the tote. You have to back the winners of half the races just to come out ahead. Yesterday at the southland meeting the biggest winning dividend was $6.70. Maybe those left betting are the more knowlegable ones,maybe the TAB limit the losses if they limit the winnings of some Fixed odds betters,but why reduce the odds when only small amounts are invested. Maybe there are a lot of punters who back horses who's Fixed odds drop,as the tote prices always seem to follow. Maybe they TAB think that excluding the unvaccinated won't effect their turnover when a halfwit could work out it will,,Maybe its a combination of all the above. But brodie is on the money when he says interest is waning from established enthusiasts. Maybe a good day on the punt might be the cure,but it just isn't as appealing as it once was. I know from my own perspective that because the industry and the TAB's have said your not allowed in,is a major factor in how i view things and why i don't care as much as i used to and while i still like the horse,i don't care as much as i did about the racing. Edited January 27, 2022 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: If events are restricted to 100 people how could you run it any other way than online? Was a video on the website recently addressing things under red traffic light. As it stood then online and in person with both a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 30 minutes ago, Rangatira said: As it stood then online and in person with both a thing. Uh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: If events are restricted to 100 people how could you run it any other way than online? Was a video on the website recently addressing things under red traffic light. As it stood then online and in person with both a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rangatira said: As it stood then online and in person with both a thing. Uh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Uh? with = were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Rangatira said: with = were "both a thing".....? I assume you mean that horses will be paraded through the ring with buyers both present at the sales and online. However there wouldn't be many buyers present due to the 100 person restriction surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: However there wouldn't be many buyers present due to the 100 person restriction surely? 100 sounded like the plan. Spectators and tyre kickers persona non grata in the selling area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 7 hours ago, Taku Umanga said: Where did you read that? How are you going to run a yearling sales when the max you are allowed is 100? Look at how many staff there are! Look at the catering staff no.s! Look at the staff associated with the vendors! Look at the owners of the lots! Look at the Buyer no.s! How on earth can they hold them successfully when they are limited to 100 just like a race meeting? This traffic light system is a madmans system that has got notging to do with peoples health! The little germ Michael Baker has said it wasnt designed to stop transmission but to bully the intelligent non poisoned to have to get the shit into them! Well news to you Baker and Ardern and her hanger onners, you can shove your Pfizer and Boosters up your gunker!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, the galah said: Tonight cambridge has a $20,000 race with only 4 starters,and a $1.25 favorite.That won't attract punter support and help the club financially,yet they still run it and seem happy to take the loss that will result. And the brodsters right about waning interest from established punters. Personally i bet on a couple of accounts.Well in recent months as soon as i bet on a horse on fixed odds on one account,it drops in price by the time i attempt to put a bet on the other account.I'm talking in seconds,not minutes.Its not my imagination as it happens virtually 95% of the time.And i'm not talking large amounts. It can be as little as putting $20 on and it makes the price drop. When you work on the theory of a 10% profit per $ invested,its no longer worthwhile.I would go down to the local tab,but they won't let me in because of my vaccine status.So i have decided to reduce what i spend on both fixed odds and the tote. And is it just me,or are others noticing the ridiculous prices some horses are paying on the tote. You have to back the winners of half the races just to come out ahead. Yesterday at the southland meeting the biggest winning dividend was $6.70. Maybe those left betting are the more knowlegable ones,maybe the TAB limit the losses if they limit the winnings of some Fixed odds betters,but why reduce the odds when only small amounts are invested. Maybe there are a lot of punters who back horses who's Fixed odds drop,as the tote prices always seem to follow. Maybe they TAB think that excluding the unvaccinated won't effect their turnover when a halfwit could work out it will,,Maybe its a combination of all the above. But brodie is on the money when he says interest is waning from established enthusiasts. Maybe a good day on the punt might be the cure,but it just isn't as appealing as it once was. I know from my own perspective that because the industry and the TAB's have said your not allowed in,is a major factor in how i view things and why i don't care as much as i used to and while i still like the horse,i don't care as much as i did about the racing. Turnover is down on the tote it is obvious looking at the tote figures on Trackside. Pools are pathetic, not sure how much is being bet on fixed odds? However the amountS they mention as big bets are not BIG BETS!!! The Bookies do not want your money, they do not let the intelligent ones into agencies or Pub Tabs without having a pathetic waste of time poison Pass Or punters pass FFS Yes I watch the races and have some bets but nothing like I was able to do! The once great sport of harness racing is not such a great sport anymore and I feel sorry for the current participants as they mostly work very hard for minimal financial reward. Personally can not see Harness Racing blossoming in the future and I also do not see too much interest coming from future generations as there is not a living for many of our young ones! Edited January 27, 2022 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) I agree with what you have said brodie.Its just reality. The TAB slash the odds because they might lose $50.I have only had 2 bets tonight and the same old story. Backed one of the telfer team on the tote with 1 minute to go only to see its price drop by 20%. I only put on $100 on it yet its price drops so much because the pools are so small. It was a flop but i knew pre race i was backing a stable that i regard as one of the most inconsistent performance wise.So i wasn't too disappointed. Then i put $40 on the final field on letsgodancing to run in the top 4.Was paying $2.40 and being my first bet it was accepted as usual,but then logged into the second account and its price had dropped to $2.10 15 seconds latter. It ran its normal nice race but was never driven to be a chance,same as normal.You see it week in,week out. The same horse and drivers get the poor runs. Suppose it lacks gate speed. Just watched south coast arden fall in by a nose in a slowly run race. Was that the same horse that has been racing from the all star team? I have had just one more bet.Thee old bomb in race 7.First stand start so it may go away and it may not.I see the modest bet i had caused the price go from $9 and $2.80 to $8 and $2.50. All a bit ridiculous, but thats the way the TAB operates. Edited January 27, 2022 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Brodie said: How are you going to run a yearling sales when the max you are allowed is 100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Look at how many staff there are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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