The Anti-Racing Beat-Up Using Years Old Video of Sir Mark Todd

[nod]

I have known Mark a long time and I would never have given him a horse to train if I had any doubts about his treatment of animals. I wish I could post a video of how he cared for a blind horse for many years.

./

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, nod said:

I have known Mark a long time and I would never have given him a horse to train if I had any doubts about his treatment of animals. I wish I could post a video of how he cared for a blind horse for many years.

./

That's good to hear @nod not that I had any doubts.  By far the majority of his equine successes have been with horses he has trained himself.  If he mistreated horses then he wouldn't have achieved those successes that relied heavily on his gaining the trust and respect of his charges.

The point I perhaps made rather inelegantly is that if everyone of us was subjected to intense scrutiny of our involvement with horses there would be at least 20 seconds which wouldn't pass the anti-racing mob's selective morality.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's good to hear @nod not that I had any doubts.  By far the majority of his equine successes have been with horses he has trained himself.  If he mistreated horses then he wouldn't have achieved those successes that relied heavily on his gaining the trust and respect of his charges.

The point I perhaps made rather inelegantly is that if everyone of us was subjected to intense scrutiny of our involvement with horses there would be at least 20 seconds which wouldn't pass the anti-racing mob's selective morality.

I think you are minimising this Chief. This is a long way past what "wouldn't pass the anti-racing mob's selective morality". I'd be interested to know when it was. Even so, it doesn't cut the mustard for any level of horse education in recent decades.

Remember also that it is not just the BHA, he held a trainer's licence here thru 2009, so you would hope that it hasn't occurred during or since that time.

Edited February 14, 2022 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, curious said:

I think you are minimising this Chief. This is a long way past what "wouldn't pass the anti-racing mob's selective morality". I'd be interested to know when it was. Even so, it doesn't cut the mustard for any level of horse education in recent decades.

Remember also that it is not just the BHA, he held a trainer's licence here thru 2009, so you would hope that it hasn't occurred during or since that time.

Perhaps.  I haven't seen the full video - have you?  I don't know any other information or context.  Do you?

So I gather from your second paragraph that you would like NZTR to investigate?  I wouldn't bother giving it anymore oxygen quite frankly.  I'm not joining the hunt for monsters brigade nor enabling the anti-race movement.

[nod]

Do the complaining people also protest about the humans being kicked and punched in what some term sport?

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Perhaps.  I haven't seen the full video - have you?

 

Yes. Have a look and report back.

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

after some very pleasant years on these forums I'm a goner, to all those good buggers out there and there a good lot of you,  I wish you all ciao, and goodbye.....and good luck.

A sad day today when reading this whole thread , with the horrid moment of time with Sir Mark Todd coming under fire for some moments of horse handling , best left undiscussed, amongst a huge CV,full of some of the best moments ever achieved in equine handling in NZ of all time.

I truly hope JoeB and Nomates return as the forums benefit from their exempelary in-put and knowledge ,and opinion that help us all appreciate the great equine sports and persons. No individual 'incident' was attributed to either of you , so don't take offence to any comment . Just a general comment about anyone handling horses has moments in time that are not filmable. I twitched horses every Sunday to tube drench them after a Saturday night run for example?. Horse is ok and generally behaves to get it's saline ,etc, but you wouldn't want it filmed as such , and usually do /did it not in front of owners even, for their comfort. Sometimes shoeing young ones you have a bit of a tussle , learning to swim in the dams, breaking in etc etc lots of moments with some horses you wouldn't want filmed. But they are there as horses fight back hard sometimes. Who's in charge is critical. (for H and S)  

[Shad]

Time for a cup of bell I reckon.

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Shad said:

Time for a cup of bell I reckon.

Agreed.  The news item was never about Sir Mark Todd it was an orchestrated coordinated media campaign by the Anti-Racing Mob.

They have one objective - "To stop the using of horses or any animal for entertainment purposes."

That means no Racing, no Equestrian events, no Hunt events (foxes and hounds have already been banned), no Gymkhanas, no Pony Clubs.....which leads to no horses.

I guess you could say the Anti-Racing mob are just Anti-Horse.

[holy ravioli]

As someone who has never been hands on with horses,many years ago I was at a mid level trainers facility and saw him continually kick a horse in the belly when it was tied up.

I asked the person with me,wtf!

I was told that you have to show horses whose boss...a dominance thing,to be able to train them.

Left an indelible impression,but I assumed this was not widespread practice.

Is it?

[Gammalite]

33 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

..a dominance thing,to be able to train them.

Left an indelible impression,but I assumed this was not widespread practice.

Is it?

After working with many types of horses in many stables for many years in many locations , I can safely say it is usually the horse that does the kicking lol.........  There is NO widespread practice of the item you describe.

People today get confused with UFC cage fighting I think , a very popular world wide sport where humans abuse other humans. Some pathetic scenes that just encourage violence in the young and susceptible. 

 

[Freda]

1 hour ago, holy ravioli said:

As someone who has never been hands on with horses,many years ago I was at a mid level trainers facility and saw him continually kick a horse in the belly when it was tied up.

I asked the person with me,wtf!

I was told that you have to show horses whose boss...a dominance thing,to be able to train them.

Left an indelible impression,but I assumed this was not widespread practice.

Is it?

No.

[Chief Stipe]

16 hours ago, curious said:

Yes. Have a look and report back.

How many times did the horse jump into the water?

[curious]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

How many times did the horse jump into the water?

Once from memory but I don't see the point of your question?

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, curious said:

Once from memory but I don't see the point of your question?

Well you haven't seen the entire video then.  The horse jumped three times and also went in the opposite direction twice.

The horse is a 7 yr old eventing horse that has known issues.  Todd was paid by the owner (the rider) for lessons to remedy some of the issues.

In the video it is clearly evident that a large part of the problem and probably the cause of the habit developing was the rider.

My interpretation was that the rider wasn't listening to Todd's instructions either.

The owner posted the clipped version and distributed it quite some time after the actual event.

There are a number of other horses and riders in the video.

[holy ravioli]

When a problem comes along...whip it...good..

https://youtu.be/j_QLzthSkfM

[aquaman]

I'm on Mark Todds side. Did not see to much wrong with what he was teaching the horse, which was to go through the water. And I might add, it worked. The one thing I would advise Mark is, do not apologize, be true to yourself, and f#ck the wokes.

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, aquaman said:

I'm on Mark Todds side. Did not see to much wrong with what he was teaching the horse, which was to go through the water. And I might add, it worked. The one thing I would advise Mark is, do not apologize, be true to yourself, and f#ck the wokes.

The rider of the horse needs some education in my opinion.  I think Todd was as frustrated with her as much as the horse.  You can hear and see that she doesn't follow Todd's instructions immediately and she doesn't give her horse much reward when it does OK nor give it much confidence or drive it towards the water.

I gather from reading the other Facebook posts that it was a long day and this episode was at the end of it.  I looked up the original post of the clipped video from the rider.  The Eventing crowd generally tore her a new one!  That lead to the posting of more video's from the day.  The following is a longer video of the water jump lesson posted by someone else that was there. 

The training session was in Scotland, happened some years ago and Todd will not be subject to any RSPCA action due to statute of limitations.  If the motivation of the rider was genuinely about horse welfare then she should have made a complaint at the time or at least within 6 months.  I doubt it will be an issue for the BHA either.  Also under the rules it certainly isn't a Knighthood removal offence.  

[Chief Stipe]

Not wishing to give any more oxygen to this story which as predicted faded fairly quickly from media attention....

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/rider-who-shared-mark-todd-viral-video-was-given-final-warning-at-previous-job-for-hitting-and-kicking-horses-and-bullying-777861?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social

Rider who shared Mark Todd viral video was given final warning at previous job for ‘hitting and kicking’ horses and ‘bullying’

 Eleanor Jones21 February, 2022 14:51

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The rider who shared video of Sir Mark Todd hitting her horse during a training clinic walked out of a previous job at a livery yard after she was threatened with dismissal for “hitting and kicking” horses, it has been claimed.

 

H&H was contacted about these claims and has seen a letter sent to the rider by her employers in April 2019, a record of a discussion in which two specific allegations were raised: cyber-bullying of people and apparently witnessed abuse of five named horses, “hitting and kicking” them. The letter adds that any further evidence of abusing or bullying animals or people would be gross misconduct and that she would be dismissed.

Yard owner Susan MacKenzie told H&H the rider walked out of the meeting and did not return to work.

“Some of the things she did were outrageous,” Ms MacKenzie said. “A big thing was the way she treated the horses.” Ms MacKenzie claims that “several liveries saw her kicking and hitting the horses… so I find this current situation ridiculous.”

Ms MacKenzie said the meeting in April was the second at which incidents of kicking and hitting horses, as well as other issues, were raised with the rider.

“One of our big rules on the yard is no bullying, of animals or people,” she said. “I told her, ‘This has to stop, I can’t have a staff member kicking and hitting horses’.”

Ms MacKenzie added that she does not condone what Mark did in the video, but questioned why the rider had released it.

Sharon Smith, who kept a horse on livery at the yard when the rider worked there, claims she had seen her kicking and hitting horses.

“I don’t condone what Mark Todd did but coming from someone who’s been abusive to horses, it’s just not on.” she said.

The rider told H&H she had no comment to make on the horse abuse claims, and that she had no recollection of the incidents described by Sharon, adding: “I worked there over two years ago.”

In a video interview with a US “animal activist”, the rider said she “never consented for that to happen to my horse”, in reference to the incident in the video.

She added: “There was no permission, therefore it shouldn’t have been done and that’s what needs to be held accountable… I never gave any permission for my horse to be hit with anything”.

The rider said she hoped the thing people would learn from her video was that “if there’s something you believe is wrong, it needs to be highlighted” and that “if you feel something is wrong, it most likely is”. She added that “You can’t be using these techniques against horses” and that people “absolutely need to be an advocate for your horse”.

[holy ravioli]

So as bad as ...each...other then.

[Chief Stipe]

59 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

So as bad as ...each...other then.

No one is a Champion and Double Gold Olympian.  Proven horse trainer both equestrian and racing.  You don't achieve what he has achieved without gaining the respect of the horses you work with.

[holy ravioli]

On 2/25/2022 at 9:43 AM, Chief Stipe said:

No one is a Champion and Double Gold Olympian.  Proven horse trainer both equestrian and racing.  You don't achieve what he has achieved without gaining the respect of the horses you work with.

Totally irrelevant.

If they both shot someone...they would both be guilty of ...shooting someone.

You have an elitist,entitled mindset.....despicable...look at Prince Andrew and...co.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Totally irrelevant.

If they both shot someone...they would both be guilty of ...shooting someone.

You have an elitist,entitled mindset.....despicable...look at Prince Andrew and...co.

It is obvious you don't know one end of a horse from another so who cares what you think is or isn't relevant.

Still banging those woke drums?

BTW if I did have an "elitist, entitled mindset" you wouldn't be allowed to post your crap on BOAY.  

[holy ravioli]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is obvious you don't know one end of a horse from another so who cares what you think is or isn't relevant.

Still banging those woke drums?

BTW if I did have an "elitist, entitled mindset" you wouldn't be allowed to post your crap on BOAY.  

You don't know what you're talking about...I grew up watching..Mr Ed....Wilbur!🤪