Sheryl Wigg RIB Disqualification Decision

[Taupiri Wonder]

29 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Dave, you are totally correct on the face of it!

I also dont see any logic to the rule whatsoever if it is non performance enhancing?

 

 

 

Brodie/on the money again.

Totally nonsensical rule.

The Penalty for the administering of a non performance enhancing treatment seems unduly harsh to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if an appeal against severity of penalty is forthcoming!

[Chief Stipe]

19 hours ago, the galah said:

Don't you think defending the administration of any substance on raceday is a dumb stance,,when everyone knows its against the rules.

That wasn't the point I was making and you know that @the galah.  I'll reiterate that in my view the administration of a substance on race day that ISN'T performance enhancing should be allowed.  Especially when it is in the best interests of the welfare of the horse.

19 hours ago, the galah said:

So what we appear to have here is someone knowingly breaking the rules and running the risk of being disqualified for several years,for no apparent gain. You realise how stupid that sounds.

I haven't disagreed with that point.

19 hours ago, the galah said:

Of course the other possibility is she felt she would gain an advantage by doing that,and thought the risk of breaking the rules was worth taking.

She was syringing a paste of turmeric, pepper and glucose which she could have easily have put in the horses feed.  It probably is put in the feed most of the week anyway.  The only rule she broke was the administration of a substance via syringe on race day.  It is a rule that is impossible to enforce evenly without costly covert surveillance.  There were ZERO performance enhancing drugs detected in the samples taken.  

What if the day was a very hot day and trainers had requested permission from the Stipes to administer glucose, electrolytes and water via syringe to prevent heat stress?  Should that be allowed in the interests of animal welfare?

Is the administration of any substance that improves animal health and welfare "performance enhancing"?

[aquaman]

The rule is a joke, just as HRNZ is. I recall a certain TB trainer whom I know personally was done on the same rule going into the NZ Cup at Riccarton 2/3 years ago. His horse late scratched and he fined. Horse was Pamir. You could use a shovel instead of a syringe and that would be OK. I mean its not as if they are plunging needle into a horse on raceday, its no more than using a spoon.

[Brodie]

Do not know Sheryll Wigg apart from knowing that she is probably the best amateur driver in NZ even allowing for the fact she is from the North Island.

Yes I know there are rules in place for everything,and the citizens of NZ are supposed to comply with them whether they are good or totally crazy in line with what our Communist Leader has put in place.

However sometimes there has to be some commonsense applied and once again I personally believe from the facts given, that the Racing Integrity Board should d certainly be changing their  name again!!!!

The Dickheads that are making these stupid decisions seriously need to look at the damage they are doing to the harness racing industry.

Last week a young Junior driver Jordan Crawford gets done for doing nothing wrong, and obviously Mr Breckon is not prepared to stand up for one of his employees, when they have been harmed!!!!

This week our best Amateur, yes broke a rule, but yes the RULE IS JUST SO BLATANTLY STUPID, which is just one of the STUPID HARNESS RULES that need changing.

Come on HRNZ get your act together and let us see that you actually do care about the industry that actually pays for your lifestyle!

Doubt whether anything will be changed as the industry has been going backwards for years and no signs of improvements despite BRAINSTORMING!!

 

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, aquaman said:

I mean its not as if they are plunging needle into a horse on raceday, its no more than using a spoon.

Had she used a teaspoon would she have been facing a charge?

[Chief Stipe]

12 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

Had she used a teaspoon would she have been facing a charge?

Probably not as the substance wasn't a prohibited substance and Rule 1004 doesn't mention spoons.

[aquaman]

You could say this is a cosmetic rule, its all about perception an not about substance.

[Dave]

Hope this is appealed and thrown in the bin where it belongs and that hrnz take their head out of the sand realises how dumb this rule is changes it and moves in to the future before its too late. Im all for bans and fines if you knowingly administer a performance enhancer. I myself use to compete in an equestrian discipline at the top level for several years, use to frequently administer water, etc to my horse via a syringe and it was perfectly legal.

[the galah]

6 hours ago, Taupiri Wonder said:

Brodie/on the money again.

Totally nonsensical rule.

The Penalty for the administering of a non performance enhancing treatment seems unduly harsh to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if an appeal against severity of penalty is forthcoming!

I can't work out why you would say that. It seems an extremely ignorant thing to say.

So you've got several people on here supporting wigg,saying she should be able to syringe her horses substances on the day of the race.

Some who are supporting wigg have double standards,as they have previously suggested there should be a focus on the all star type stables. Wheres the consistency in that type of thinking.It should always be the same rule for everyone.You can't say its ok for someone,and then moan about the more high profile stables.

This thread just shows for some its about personalities.

And lets just be honest about what everyone with the aforementioned approach is condoning. 

The JCA report states the paste in the syringes had raised PH levels,so as to be an alkalising agent.The vet said it couldn't be explained by the tumeric.,and didn't know what else had caused the increased PH level in the paste. Wigg came up with the explanation that her bore water may have caused that.

Now i'm no expert,but wasn't that paste designed to help the horses stamina.Don't PH levels have something to do with countering things like lactic acid which happen when horses race.

Hasn't anyone read the jca report and picke.d that up.

Anyway,personally i think its all rather unfortunate that wigg has put herself in the position she did. Shes has an outstanding record as an amateur driver,and the public will miss seeing her drive.

One thing i think we can all agree on is we will all look forward to her return to race driving.

Edited March 8, 2022 by the galah

[Ludwig]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Probably not as the substance wasn't a prohibited substance and Rule 1004 doesn't mention spoons.

I thought the spoons had all moved to another site .

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

The JCA report states the paste in the syringes had raised PH levels,so as to be an alkalising agent.

Doesn't necessarily mean it was an alkalising agent nor of sufficient quantity to elevate the pH of the horses blood.  Irrelevant anyway when TCO2 levels weren't tested.  Seems they mucked up that part of the sampling in any case.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

The JCA report states the paste in the syringes had raised PH levels,so as to be an alkalising agent.The vet said it couldn't be explained by the tumeric.,and didn't know what else had caused the increased PH level in the paste. Wigg came up with the explanation that her bore water may have caused that.

Now i'm no expert,but wasn't that paste designed to help the horses stamina.Don't PH levels have something to do with countering things like lactic acid which happen when horses race.

Hasn't anyone read the jca report and picke.d that up.

 

Yes I picked that up.   It is extremely doubtful that the level of raised pH in the paste would have been sufficient to raise the blood pH of the horses.  It would have been a simple calculation to work out if the amount present in the paste by volume would indeed raise the levels.

Irrelevant anyway when TCO2 levels weren't tested.  Seems they mucked up that part of the sampling hence that charge being dropped.

Contrary to what you are saying I don't think anyone posting here condones Wigg's actions.  However many are of the opinion that the rule is not a good one.  

[Robalan]

I dispute your statement Chief. I for one believe that the rule is both necessary and effective. Before the rule was implemented people were giving their horses all sorts of administrations on raceday, mostly by tubing. This rule has clearly stated that no one is to give a horse anything using a tube or syringe on a day that horse is racing. Everybody understands that rule and know that if they are caught contravening the rule then they will be charged and will likely receive a period of disqualification. Since the implementation of the rule we have all been playing on a much more level playing field

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Robalan said:

I dispute your statement Chief. I for one believe that the rule is both necessary and effective. Before the rule was implemented people were giving their horses all sorts of administrations on raceday, mostly by tubing. This rule has clearly stated that no one is to give a horse anything using a tube or syringe on a day that horse is racing. Everybody understands that rule and know that if they are caught contravening the rule then they will be charged and will likely receive a period of disqualification. Since the implementation of the rule we have all been playing on a much more level playing field

Fair enough Robalan and she clearly broke the rule which is just one of the plainly stupid rules that we are unfortunately being forced into on a daily basis!

Just because it is a rule does not mean that everyone has agreed to it being sensible and not requiring looking into it if no wrong  harm or advantage has occurred surely????

We as citizens of NZ have over recent years have become very complacent and accepting of so much BS it has become a pandemic!

Ms. Wigg has obviously broken a rule but on the face it has not gained any advantage from what she did!!!
Does she really deserve such a harsh disqualification from being able to train horses for what she did?

Could you kindly advise us all what the disqualification was for the ones that were guilty in the BLUE MAGIC cases where they were clearly administering illegal substances for GAIN?

At the end of the day it doesnt affect any of us really, however what it does do is just put another  knife into the back of harness racing in the North Island which it well can do without!

[Brodie]

So Ms. Wigg got 1 month less than what Nigel got for administering Blue Magic, when she administered nothing that was giving her horses an an advantage, and was legal!!!!!,,,

Go figure!!!!!!
 

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

So Ms. Wigg got 1 month less than what Nigel got for administering Blue Magic, when she administered nothing that was giving her horses an an advantage, and was legal!!!!!,,,

Go figure!!!!!!
 

Nigel didn't administer blue magic.

[Chief Stipe]

11 hours ago, Robalan said:

I dispute your statement Chief. I for one believe that the rule is both necessary and effective. Before the rule was implemented people were giving their horses all sorts of administrations on raceday, mostly by tubing.

The rule MAY be necessary but it definitely ISN'T effective or efficient in its application.  It fails the effective and efficient tests on a number of grounds.  

1. It relies on third party informants to alert authorities to a possible breach  This is open to abuse by those in the industry that have a snitch for whatever reason.  No doubt it leads to a wealth of false information that must be reviewed and acted on in some way.  That results in more costs for little return;
2. Any resultant action has a high cost as it involves the diversion of a large number of RIB staff to "raid" the suspect stable.  The resources required versus those available means that on any one race day only one stable in a region can be raided on race day.  What about the other stables?;
3. The objective is to eliminate the use of illegal Performance Enhancing Drugs that give an unfair advantage to those using them and or may be detrimental to animal health.  The most cost effective and efficient means of doing that is via testing.  In the Wigg case they were so focused on finding a syringe that they stuffed up the testing!  There in lies a big problem.  The rule is an inefficient catch all that encourages incompetence.

Trainers and Vets using tubing for the administration of medication and other animal health products on a regular basis.  It ISN'T illegal outside race day.  The irony is if a horse is suffering heat stress and or severe lactic acid build up after a race the remedy is to tube them as quickly as possible!

The RIB is extremely strapped for funding.  Old school methods of investigation and policing are costly.  The RIB should be directing their limited resources to those methods that are most cost effective.  Finding someone giving Turmeric and Black Pepper to a horse on race day looks farcical especially when they stuff up the testing.  It is Keystone Cops at its worst!  Note in this case if it wasn't for the requests of Molloy testing wouldn't have occurred.  Why?  As it is they passed on as much of the requested testing costs as they could on to Wigg.  Now that is another debate that has two sides.

The RIB side is that under Rule 1004 we had Wigg nailed and we didn't have to test what it was that she was administering.  When they were forced to do the testing it is inferred in the decision that it was too late for TCO2 levels to be checked.  Wigg was expected to take the cheaper option and plead guilty on the syringe administration WITHOUT any investigation into what was being administered.

It should also be noted that the horses would not have returned positives to illegal drugs if they had been tested.  Turmeric and Black Pepper are not illegal and they should never be.

12 hours ago, Robalan said:

Everybody understands that rule and know that if they are caught contravening the rule then they will be charged and will likely receive a period of disqualification. Since the implementation of the rule we have all been playing on a much more level playing field

The Rule has been around for decades.  It hasn't stopped people contravening it.  You have no evidence that "the playing field is more level".  Your inference is that using a syringe to administer the legal substances of Turmeric and Black Pepper is an advantage to those doing it.

Meanwhile bigger issues of animal health and welfare are looming.  Some "wokesters" are arguing that products that reduce inflammation and repair tissues, cartilage and bone damage in humans shouldn't be used in horses because it gives those using them an advantage!

[Robalan]

I'm not aware of the arguments of your wokesters but I doubt they will get much traction. Products and surgical proceedures, to reduce inflammation, bone and cartilage damage have been in use for some considerable time. If used within the timelines set out in the rules, they are not a problem. In fact, without them, I believe there would be few horses racing. If the use of these products and proceedures were banned, then I believe that the SPCA and other animal welfare organisations would be loudly calling for all racing to cease

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Robalan said:

I'm not aware of the arguments of your wokesters but I doubt they will get much traction. Products and surgical proceedures, to reduce inflammation, bone and cartilage damage have been in use for some considerable time. If used within the timelines set out in the rules, they are not a problem. In fact, without them, I believe there would be few horses racing. If the use of these products and proceedures were banned, then I believe that the SPCA and other animal welfare organisations would be loudly calling for all racing to cease

By the way things are going racing in the north will cease prior to the so called animal welfare agencies calling for racing to cease!!

Ms. Wigg and Tim Vince are going to be a massive loss to North Island racing!!

No harm was caused and yet a disqualification of trainers license of 17 months which is one month less than was applied for someone who used Blue Magic on a regular basis!!

Go figure, it just doesnt seem right!!

[Robalan]

I do think Ms Wigg was treated a little harshly and on the basis of the evidence presented, what she was giving the horse would not improve it's performance. Given that's the case why on earth did she do it.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

By the way things are going racing in the north will cease prior to the so called animal welfare agencies calling for racing to cease!!

Ms. Wigg and Tim Vince are going to be a massive loss to North Island racing!!

No harm was caused and yet a disqualification of trainers license of 17 months which is one month less than was applied for someone who used Blue Magic on a regular basis!!

Go figure, it just doesnt seem right!!

So what are you advocating?

Sounds like you don't have a problem with any trainer tubing,drenching or injecting  their horse on raceday.Theres no other way to take what you are saying. 

No harm done you say,as long as they don't give them anything that is picked up. And you use the wigg case as proof what you say is whtat the rule should be.Because shes a trainer who has been giving her horses pre race treatments,knowing  her pre race treatment was of no benefit to her horses performance.  You see thats what switched on trainers do....give them drenches that  don't help.

[Brodie]

6 minutes ago, the galah said:

So what are you advocating?

Sounds like you don't have a problem with any trainer tubing,drenching or injecting  their horse on raceday.Theres no other way to take what you are saying. 

No harm done you say,as long as they don't give them anything that is picked up. And you use the wigg case as proof what you say is whtat the rule should be.Because shes a trainer who has been giving her horses pre race treatments,knowing  her pre race treatment was of no benefit to her horses performance.  You see thats what switched on trainers do....give them drenches that  don't help.

Galah, not really advocating  anything  other than common sense should be applied to every situation, which is not happening in our lives over recent years!

I was not with Sheryll Wigg when she used the syringe and wouldnt know whether this is common practice with her training practices!

I have never been seriously involved in the operation of how a stable operates although I used to have a basic idea of what went on years ago, I believe.

What I do know on the face of it is that Sheryll Wigg has been given a totally over the top sentence for something that really has not been performance enhancing to her horses!!!!
I certainly do not condone cheating as many of my posts over the years would indicate!

Had Sheryll Wigg tubed, syringed, injected etc. banned drugs into her horses then I would not be supporting her!

From what i have read she did not engage in banned or illegal performance enhancers and yet we want to castigate her???

Brodie as you are well aware is just totally frustrated by many things over the past few years including the total BULL SHIT that we have had to endure from the most evil Communist so called Prime Minister.

There are far more important things going on in NZ at the moment, than a very very hardworking horse trainer that gave her horses black pepper and turmeric on the day of her horses racing!

Most people in NZ have just been worn down and just do what Ardern and Co. says and thinks that the BS she says must be correct!

Brodie, while he has breath still in him, will always speak his mind whether it is right or wrong!

I believe Sheryll Wigg has been dealt a far too severe penalty for a very small misdemeanour that hurt no one!!!!!!!!!!

 

[the galah]

33 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Galah, not really advocating  anything  other than common sense should be applied to every situation, which is not happening in our lives over recent years!

I was not with Sheryll Wigg when she used the syringe and wouldnt know whether this is common practice with her training practices!

I have never been seriously involved in the operation of how a stable operates although I used to have a basic idea of what went on years ago, I believe.

What I do know on the face of it is that Sheryll Wigg has been given a totally over the top sentence for something that really has not been performance enhancing to her horses!!!!
I certainly do not condone cheating as many of my posts over the years would indicate!

Had Sheryll Wigg tubed, syringed, injected etc. banned drugs into her horses then I would not be supporting her!

From what i have read she did not engage in banned or illegal performance enhancers and yet we want to castigate her???

Brodie as you are well aware is just totally frustrated by many things over the past few years including the total BULL SHIT that we have had to endure from the most evil Communist so called Prime Minister.

There are far more important things going on in NZ at the moment, than a very very hardworking horse trainer that gave her horses black pepper and turmeric on the day of her horses racing!

Most people in NZ have just been worn down and just do what Ardern and Co. says and thinks that the BS she says must be correct!

Brodie, while he has breath still in him, will always speak his mind whether it is right or wrong!

I believe Sheryll Wigg has been dealt a far too severe penalty for a very small misdemeanour that hurt no one!!!!!!!!!!

 

I agree with a lot of what you say,but don't believe wigg was treated harshly myself.

Whats the point of a hard working, good honest trainer playing by the rules if authorities let behavior like wiggs have little or no consequences.

The good honest hard working trainers who play by the rules,and thats nearly everyone,may as well give the game away if they don't enforce the rules. And that rule would have the support of nearly  every trainer who is trying to play it fair. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by the galah

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

I agree with a lot of what you say,but don't believe wigg was treated harshly myself.

Whats the point of a hard working, good honest trainer playing by the rules if authorities let behavior like wiggs have little or no consequences.

The good honest hard working trainers who play by the rules,and thats nearly everyone,may as well give the game away if they don't enforce the rules. And that rule would have the support of nearly  every trainer who is trying to play it fair. 

Fair enough Galah, just don’t believe the rule is sensible when she administered nothing that was illegal and could’ve been eaten in food.

Anyway more important things to be concerned with , do feel for Sheryl Wigg though for length of sentence.

Will she be back?

If it was me, I wouldn’t be back!

[the galah]

8 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Will she be back?

If it was me, I wouldn’t be back!

Her current spell on the sidelines is just part of her harness racing journey, not her final destination.